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The book of Hebrews... truly divinely inspired?

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


Philip says, "Lord show us the Father and that will be enough..."
Jesus says, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... I and the Father are one..." And he also thanks God for revealing his name, "the name you gave me," and then, "In that day you will ask in My name. I'm not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf."

Again, "Destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days." Not my father will. And your language stuff I'm going to assume you learned online. The old term was Jehova, or whatever. There was no J sound in that language. What was Jesus name in Hebrew... see the similarities?




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by atotheb
Again, look at the post above yours. Lot didn't obey God. Did she have faith in one god, sure. "Even the demons believe that and shudder." The place was already being condemned, all she had to do was trust God, which she didn't.

Come on guys pich up your Bibles and turn to Hebrew 10:37. Compare to Habakkuk 2:1-3. Huge transformation in scripture. And that's not the only time the author leaves out some scripture to push a foriegn belief, but it is the only time he changes it.

Theses ideas come from Paul, not Jesus or any prophet. And just to add it's very doubtful if Paul wrote this letter, comparing it to his other letters. Completely different style.


So have you already joined the gang against Paul or are you trying to study scripture to show yourself approved?

I've already given you exactly what "Noah condemned means". He shut those doors through faith, condemning the outside world. He let them go. The very same thing Lot did not do.

I asked those questions earlier because if you do not understand the sacrifice and bloodshed, you cannot progress in large parts of the inspired scriptures.

For example:

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

OP comment - Then he places in, "And if he shinks back I will not be pleased with him," which I can't find anywhere in the 'quoted' scripture. He does this to push his belief that if we sin after believing we are 'cleaned by his blood', then were damned, or crucifying Christ again somehow. This also shows complete misunderstanding of Christ's life and death, which showed his infinite mercy.

Let's look at Peter
"2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."

Let's look at John
1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.

Let's look at Numbers
Numbers 15:30 "'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people."

Did you not notice that God baptised all of the Israelites in the Red Sea, yet killed nearly all of them for idolatry and other things?

OP, I got to ask - why do you think the western "Christian" nations are filled with sinful activities? Judgement is coming. If you keep on sinning there is no further forgiveness of sins. Sure all of us will mess up from time to time, or come to know a new lesson as Father teaches, but to willingly go and repeat the sin is tantamount to expecting Christ to get up on the tree again. Those actions will be judged. Did you not notice that there are obviously people in the White throne judgement who are in the Book of Life, I.e. That they are not part of the first resurrection?



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 




New International Version (©1984)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
New Living Translation(©2007)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

English Standard Version(©2001)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

International Standard Version (©2008)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Every writing which is written by The Spirit is profitable for teaching, for correction, for direction and for a course in righteousness



1Pe 1:18


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1Pe 1:19


But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

2Pe 3:14


Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.



2Pe 3:15


And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter and James letters seem to be written to Jewish Christians ..Hebrews could be writen to the same group peter is addressing in his letter ...It is thought that Paul wrote Hebrews but did not put his name on the letter because of what Paul had did before his conversion



2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 


O.k. you nailed me here, but still, why does he change the scripture? I'll try to take that in context for my next reading!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by the2ofusr1
 


Also jesus warns us about Peter. Do you love me? 3 times!! and Feed my sheep! When you get older you will strech forth your hands, and someone else will lead you where you do not want to go!

This is a direct warning that peter would stop telling Jesus' words and turn to follow Paul.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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Scripture can't be inspired to warn us what we shouldn't be doing? By warning us beforehand?

The evil ones will be known by their boastings.
Got to get to work, but will be back.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 
At the rate you are going you ll need to throw out most of the new testament ...Martin Luther only found the book of James to be a nagging issue ,but found in the end the church at Rome was a much bigger issue ...peace



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 
You need to read just a little bit furthure ..Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
Joh 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. and as we are told threw the early church fathers Peter was crusified upside down ...
.


edit on 1-2-2012 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Habakkuk is all about FAITH. Jesus and the NT quotes are based on the Greek Septuigant versions of the OT... Your OT probably is the Hebrew manuscript. There is still a difference, but please see www.abu.nb.ca...

I'd like to comment on your quote: "Then we get to more righteous live by faith stuff. Blah, blah rambling foolishness that if we read the stories we see everyone followed God's word to be declared righteous. Of course we need faith but that's simply believing in God. The test is obeying his word. "

Satan believes in God. Satan obeys God word. Did you not know that? So don't you think that you are missing something?

So obviously there has TO BE SOMETHING MORE THAT GOD IS SEEKING.

FAITH. And that is why half of the NT is devoted to understanding what it is, how it is developed and the level of Faith required by God. Every single person declared righteous in the OT had the level of faith required by Our Heavenly Father. Why do you think we work our salvation with fear and trembling? Please please please don't fall into this Jesus Only Words doctrine for it is designed to lead you from salvation and your place in the Kingdom of God. Satan believes in God and he obeys God. Read Job. So please understand that FAITH is the trust that you put in Our Father that every single one of His promises will be kept. Please ilunderstand that all scripture, not just Paul, is taken out of context to justify wrong doctrine.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by atotheb
 


To fully understand hebrews, you have to take a look back into the old testament. Hebrews was probably written to who it is addressed to...Hebrews.

Jesus being the sacrificial lamb comes directly from the jewish faith. Lambs were used on Yom Kippur to cleanse the people of sins but that cleansing didn't last. A final solution was needed to free mankind from sin forever, an everlasting sacrifice that could be done once and for all.

Jesus himself said he came to save all mankind and there was only one way he could do that, by shedding his blood. Remember he was an observing jew but he is also God in the flesh.

When Jesus breathed his last breath on the cross, the veil that secluded the Holy of Holies from the rest of the temple ripped in half and blew open signifying that the Holy of Holies was now open to everyone. This couldn't have happened if Jesus didn't come to die for our sins.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by atotheb
reply to post by Pervius
 


Philip says, "Lord show us the Father and that will be enough..."
Jesus says, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... I and the Father are one..." And he also thanks God for revealing his name, "the name you gave me," and then, "In that day you will ask in My name. I'm not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf."

Again, "Destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days." Not my father will. And your language stuff I'm going to assume you learned online. The old term was Jehova, or whatever. There was no J sound in that language. What was Jesus name in Hebrew... see the similarities?


God's hebrew name Is Yahovah, but the hebrew language is all consants, there are now vowels. Most jewish orthodox priests will tell you his name is pronounced Ya-hey-ah-vey.. Jesus' hebrew name was Yahshua (english would be Joshua) but hebrew is the religious language of the jews. The common language was Aramaic which is what Jesus spoke, even though he knew all language. Jesus aramaic name Is Yeshua. Some say he is called YaHuWshuwaH...it just depend son who you talk to but Yahshua fits as well as any other. In the Talmud the Sanhedrin called him Yeshu. The letter J was invented 500 years ago, his name begins with a Y as far as anyone living today knows.

BTW, name chapter and verse please. It makes it easier to look up what youre talking about.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by atotheb



The author tells us that Jesus suffered in order to be made perfect. John 1 tells us that he's God, so he's always been perfect, always the same. The Word of God stands forever. He's not some high priest, or apostle, but God Himself. Even his quote from Psalms doesn't say you will become, it says, "You are a priest forever."


The Old Testament is about man’s fear of God. Because man feared God he gave man earthly laws, and an earthy Priesthood. But these laws and priest couldn’t truly please God, because sin is not pleasing. Jesus came to prove that he was from God and that we needed only him as our high priest forever. It is not as if this was new but it was a new teaching. Much of the New Testament is not destroying the old way but renewing it and making it perfect. So we have a high priest who was without sin that can truly teach us the way to be without sin.



Then he claims that the new covenant was Christ shedding his blood to clean us from our sins. Jesus taught us that his flesh and blood was the word he spoke. (John 6:56&62-63)vs (Heb. 9:14) I think he also tells a disciple he's now clean after hearing his words, but I can't find it. Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice.", and teaches to be forgiven we must forgive. Seems it's more focused on Him dying for us instead of Him living for us, and us living for him.


Christ did come to shed his blood on the cross. This was his proof to us that we are forgiven, loved, and that the resurrection is real.

He did not teach that to be forgiven we must forgive. What he was teaching is you are forgiven now go do likewise. What he does say is if we take this forgiveness, like the man who was forgiven 10,000 coins and then go expect payment from those who owe us, he will revoke that forgiveness. So we are instructed to forgive others because we were forgiven first.

He both died for us and lives for us. The focus on life and death are equal. It is through his life that we may learn the truth, but it is through his death that the promise is made perfect.



So how does this author convince us that we get to the Most Holy Place by His blood? Did we already forget what God said?


Please don’t take this the wrong way but you are kind of taking a few things for granted about the survival of Christianity. The entire religion is focused on the resurrection. Anyone can make a promise but only the one resurrected from the dead has proven he is from God. All of the disciples fell away and scattered when he was crucified. They were weak and could not follow him to death. Through his resurrection and the filling of the Holy Spirit they became able to endure the persecution and further the word. I believe in 1 Corinthians it says if the resurrection is not real than their teaching is worthless.




"And if he shinks back I will not be pleased with him," which I can't find anywhere in the 'quoted' scripture. He does this to push his belief that if we sin after believing we are 'cleaned by his blood', then were damned, or crucifying Christ again somehow. This also shows complete misunderstanding of Christ's life and death,which showed his infinite mercy.


Hebrews 6 4:6 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance.

There is no pleasant way to tell you this but you must believe what I say is true because I say it so that you may know the fullness of the love of God. You have accepted a message from the church that is not the whole truth. You have been forgiven by Grace, but you have not been known the full Glory of God.

Fallen away here means to be caught back up in sin. For whoever is born of God does not sin. It is not possible for someone who is truly born of the spirit to continue to sin. You see God only gives this gift to those who are ready. When you receive this gift it will become your mission to share the good news with the world. If you remain in sin how is anyone to know that your message comes from God? If you love the world as Jesus did, which is what he commands than you will not sin, because you realize that your sin is a stumbling block to those who are still coming to God.

If someone born of the Spirit continues to sin they will essentially destroy themselves. They have known the truth, love and wisdom of God and fallen away. Right now you only know the Grace, forgiveness, of God but there is much more promised to you if you repent and love the world as Christ did. The apostles I think best described this as being filled by joy.

The sin that this is talking about is more in the lines of willful disobedience. Anyone who has been shown the glory of God by the Holy Spirit who continues to willfully disobey is in all reality crucifying the son of God again.



"he punishes anyone he accepts as a son," I'm sorry but where does it say that?


He judges all, and punishes those who do wrong. All will be sprinkled with fire.

Anger, hate, depression, selfishness leading to desires that destroy us. I would call that both righteous judgment and punishment. Have you felt these things when you did wrong? I imagine yes, congratulations this means you have been punished by God and you are a son.




The words apostle and high priest, when talking about our Lord, is a slap in the face to the entire rest of the book.


Why is this slap in the face? He is all things including Apostle, King of King, and High Priest. He is also the messiah, the Christ, and Immanuel. He is perfect in all things. If he was not all things than he could not be the teacher of all things. How can you teach something to someone that you have done yourself. He has been all of these things since the beginning of creation. Man out of fear rejected him in many of these capacities, which is why we were given the laws.

The new perfect law. Follow the will of the father, love as I have loved you. God is love. In every choice in life you have but only two choices. Love or not love. If you follow God and love you know that wherever that road leads, it leads to God’s will in your life. If you do not love, you go down the path of destruction, where only God knows what lies down that path.

P.S. we are all forgiven but not all will know forgiveness.



John 8:14-15 14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I PASS JUDGEMENT ON NO ONE.


If Jesus did not pass judgment, and many times he proved that he forgave all sin, than you should not judge either. Your command is to love as he has loved you. Anyone who knows love knows the father, and they have been forgiven, it is only the Christian that knows forgiveness. Now that I have given you the truth go love your neighbor who does not yet know he is forgiven.

edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 





Satan believes in God. Satan obeys God word. Did you not know that? So don't you think that you are missing something?


Satan obeys God's law? Then why is he called the Father of lies? He was breaking the laws from the very start. You've been reading gnostic texts.

9th commadment "you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (tell lies)

And you can tell throughout the entire bible how much God detests liars. Ananias and Sapphira found that out the hard way.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WhoKnows100
 





Satan believes in God. Satan obeys God word. Did you not know that? So don't you think that you are missing something?


Satan obeys God's law? Then why is he called the Father of lies? He was breaking the laws from the very start. You've been reading gnostic texts.

9th commadment "you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (tell lies)

And you can tell throughout the entire bible how much God detests liars. Ananias and Sapphira found that out the hard way.


I think what was attempted to be said was that Satan can only do that which God allows, in the sense that Satan has been given some amount of time before finally being thrown into the Lake of Fire & Brimstone. There are still limits. Note that in the book of Job, Satan had to get permission every time he did something to Job, and even with all that he was allowed to do, was still restrained from killing Job.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WhoKnows100
 





Satan believes in God. Satan obeys God word. Did you not know that? So don't you think that you are missing something?


Satan obeys God's law? Then why is he called the Father of lies? He was breaking the laws from the very start. You've been reading gnostic texts.

9th commadment "you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (tell lies)

And you can tell throughout the entire bible how much God detests liars. Ananias and Sapphira found that out the hard way.


I didn't say God's LAWS.
Did Satan not ask God to test Job? What did God tell him? Did God give him permission?
Do you really think that God didn't know what would happen in the Garden of Eden.
And I despise Gnosticism ...



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by davidchin
 


Thanks for the help, and yes, thats what I meant. Think my tea was burning whilst trying to type on the phone



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Well my head is in a spin...Funny thing I never could wrap my head around. Why a lot of the NT is about Paul's conversion and ministry.

Finally putting some pieces together with him and this Being in light (around Mormons too much) it is all starting to make sense!
edit on 1-2-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


O.k. first off, I never denied the resurection. Second Matt. 6:14' "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins."
And third I never said that he didn't die for us, I said that is the writers main focus.

"He both died for us and lives for us. The focus on life and death are equal. It is through his life that we may learn the truth, but it is through his death that the promise is made perfect. " I can dig that and i'm not speaking against it.

And last off, now you begin to judge me... only God knows my heart, and knows the things i've given up... everything. Also it's not faith I have a problem with, it's the faith alone without deeds of the law. I have plenty of faith, I've left my family because God directed me... still pay the bills, but have moved out, because of what I was commanded.

Other than that, thanks for the post... I feel our views aren't really that far off... just my problem with Paul.

Tell me he's no hypocrite and I'll prove you wrong.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by davidchin
 


So God would allow Satan to test Job, but won't allow us to be tested with teachings that go against Him?

"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away." Matt. 13:24



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 


Read it for your self. I hope I could help. Tell me why Paul wants to look good in the sight of all people.
"woe to you when all men speak well of you." Tell me why Paul was argueing with Peter and James. 1 cor 10:26 "I have become all things to all men..." Hypocracy... the yeast of the Pharisees.

2 Cor 11:22 "Are they hebews? So am I... Are they servants of Christ? I am more." 2 Cor. 12:5 "I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself except about my weaknesses." Yup, sounds like everyone I've ever met that talks like that turns out to be a Bull---er.

Come on people, read Cor and pay attention to what he says.



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