Help me challenge my beliefs.

reply to post by GeordieLegend


Do you think there are different levels in that game?

Do yo we have extra coins or is it hardcore mode?

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Thanks for the nice advices and song. Believe me, I may seem to believe I have the answers to my questions, but I know it's just an illusion. That's exactly the objective of my original post, to exercise my critical mind and to re-examine what I believe.

I reached a moment when I'm quite comfortable with my vision of the world. Even if not everything is explained, the belief system I now have is quite robust and satisfying. So the question I'm asking myself is "why changing?" and hence the reason of the thread

Again thanks for the nice advices, I'm currently weeding out the unwanted habits as it is winter I find it a good moment to do so too.

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


Who's this god person you talk about? (I really mean it, who's god for you? And I ask this as a self-proclaimed mystic :p)


Thanks

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
The point I took out of that is that you don't want to take things TOO seriously.

Exactly

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
To the OP. the least you could've done when you came back was make another account so you could change your handle.

SpaceGoatsfarts??.........Really????

Refer to your 1rst quote above That handle is an inside joke between me and the universe

reply to post by the2ofusr1


I think I can be labelled a Christian too, but not really a religious one. Religion comes from "religare" ; to connect, to link. I see what they try to achieve, but my faith sparkled not from the familial catholic culture (because like I said I was a scientific agnostic) but from personal experience, and personal interpretation of texts that could be actually very different from the one accepted by established religion.

I clearly have no interest in labels and if someone tells me he is a christian, it's just an indication of his cultural background, more than his current values and mindset. Like you said, it's not uncommon to have very different opinions among christians, and what I reject above all, is the "holier-than-thou" attitude of some wannabe christians who spend more time judging others than to help them.

That's why I think religion is absolutely not a free-pass to salvation, and thus not something I use to define people.

I don't think atheists are trolling, but christians debating them are surely feeding them You get the opponent you deserve, and from there you can chose to fight him, to forgive him, to ignore him or to share with him. What shall you do? Walk a mile in their shoes, most are not trolling. Just like christians want to save others, maybe atheists want to do the same?

If the intention is the same, why is it not possible to find common ground? But then it requires to set the pride aside and to respect the opinion of the Other. IMHO

Thanks for the video too, it was funny to see someone talking about how trying to have a different (meaning non-American) perspective of the Bible is important, because it's not really a problem for me since I'm NOT American

reply to post by DRFGM


I'm not looking for consolidation of my beliefs at all. If you read the OP you'll see I have no expectation whatsoever on the outcome of this, and even specifically state that above all I try to not let my beliefs crystallize and start imprisoning me.

I'm very open to new things, hence, again, this thread, among other things. It's just I can't hand pick one new conspiracy like you said and say "OK, I'll believe this from now on"... Especially since most conspiracy theorists make a piss poor job at selling their products to critical minds

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by SpaceGoatsFarts

Originally posted by yourmaker
everything can be verified in one form or another, name one thing that can't.

The meaning of life?

the question itself is flawed, there is no 'meaning' but the one you create yourself

You are perfectly right. Actually you've just made me change my belief or rather my definition:

Everything can be verified, but maybe not by us.

There's no "supernatural", only unknown, bizarre, and hard (impossible?) to grasp stuff (and delusions of course :p ). It's not because science can't prove or disprove something that it is "supernatural".

For example, the infinity of the universe, or it's origin, cannot be proved nor visualized today, and probably never will, but it doesn't mean it is supernatural.

It's all a matter of having common definition for words but it is important for good communication

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts

 

So...ya want someone to challenge your belief on ATS? Why?

I would say that everyone has a belief (yep..even the atheist) and everyone's belief are always challenged. As one grows the belief changes. I think it is Universal Law.....everything changes.

To challenge your belief I would first need to know what it is you believe on a particular subject.

Do you believe in Aliens and if so...why?

Do you believe in a Creator and if so... why?

Do you believe in our reality being nothing more than an illusion and if so ....why?

Do you believe what you think you know is really not even close to the truth and if so....why?

Do you believe in the Adam and Eve story? If so...would you say that having a choice of free will to know good and bad verses knowing the meaning of life was a good choice and if so ....why?

I LOVE hearing of others beliefs and talking about them verses what I think I know and or believe at the time. I like a respectable conversation whereas there is not one of us thinking we "know it all" because I frankly think none of us are even close to a know it all status.

If you ever just want to converse back and forth about a belief....feel free to message me because I LOVE thinking about deep stuff.

Jenn

Why? Because I'm afraid that my beliefs start to numb my critical mind over time. The Universe is dynamic, I see no reason why my view of the Universe shouldn't be too


Now regarding your questions

-I believe Life exists throughout the Universe (panspermia) at various stage of evolution/consciousness.
-I doubt flesh and bones aliens visit us (I can't decide if the triangle UFO wave over my country that lead to the most clear and verified picture of a UFO was man made or not. I suppose it was).
-I believe other "entities" exist on this planet with us (maybe emanations, "tulpas", from us collectively, from us as we die, or from us individually, or maybe even entities with individual existences; "extra-dimensional" entities)
-Why? Because this is where my researches and experiences have led me.

-I believe in the act of Creation. I refuse to use the word "Creator" because it leads to anthropomorphism, but I do believe in the possibility of the Universe being spawned by a Creative force.
-Why? Because this is where my researches and experiences have led me.

-To say the world is an illusion, we must carefully define that word first. To the dead ones, life is an illusion, to the living ones, life is very real. I believe that to define the world as an illusion leads to nihilism, and nihilism is not something I value.
-Why? Because this is where my researches and experiences have led me.

-I believe I'll never know the Truth, because the Truth is the sum of individual truths + self-existing truths, and little me only has a piece of the puzzle I believe truth is subjective and Truth is ineffable.
-Why? Because this is where my researches and experiences have led me.

-I believe the Adam and Eve story is highly enlightening when you meditate on it with an open mind (free from manicheism. I believe many parts of the Bible are mystical texts). I believe that when the human wasn't a human yet, there was no "right or wrong", only nature. So no guilty feelings, no shame (hence them running around naked), no judgement. When Eve (the feminine nature of the human) discovered the knowledge of right and wrong (moral values), the human lost his innocence. He saw his animal nature, and was ashamed, covering his nakedness. Then moral values led to judgement, and the end of "innocence", hence why we started to morally suffer while judging the world around us, and being judged by our peers. That's where my mind led me when I read that story. Just like the Bible, there are many levels of reading, it's the story of humans, it's the story of Jews, it's our personal story (so Adam and Eve could be parts of your mind too ). Since the Universe is fractal, there is no way one or the other level of reading is more important than the other.
-I believe the pursuit of the knowledge of right and wrong is important even if it leads to suffering. Knowing the meaning of life would lead to us being bored to death, no questioning anymore, no moral dilemmas anymore. And being bored leads to decadence.
-Why? Because this is where my researches and experiences have led me :p

I would love to converse with you. If you're OK with it we can continue on this thread because I believe it's not a sin to share our pursuit of meaning with others

Take care

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
"Belief is a denial of truth, belief hinders truth; to believe in God is not to find God. Neither the believer nor the non-believer will find God; because reality is the unknown, and your belief or non-belief in the unknown is merely a self-projection and therefore not real."jiddu k

Actually, the greek version of the Bible uses the word "sophia" that we translated as "Faith, belief", while the greek meaning is more vast, embracing also the meaning "knowledge". So the Bible doesn't invite people to believe in god, but to know him.

So I can only agree with you that there's no place for beliefs in a wise mind. But I'm not Zen enough yet to let go my desire to explain the unknown, and meanwhile, I can only conjecture and believe But these beliefs are not monolithic, more like transient thoughts, a very long dialog within myself that will take years and years to unravel, until the punchline :p

reply to post by jonnywhite


Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I see where you are coming from It seems like our thoughts are stuck in front of the same paradox.

I believe that rather to get stuck at it, we can, like someone else stated before, create meaning out of this and reconcile both views.

I believe we are creating this universe as we speak. We are changing it, and someone else will change it after us. Maybe you, we, are all at this crosspoint where we have to give meaning to this and make it real. Maybe Life is evolving as we speak, and we have the potential to continue living in a world that is just chaos where some rules tend to generate patterns that have no real meaning or conscious causes, or to make it something else...

Maybe our consciousness is really a wonderful tool (and not just chemical reactions) that allows us to shape the world around us as we expand our understanding and vision of it. Maybe the realities coexist, different in people's minds, but aggregated on a higher level in a "multiple state". Like the observer who "fixes" the quantic particle in a specific state by observing it, maybe we "fix" the world in specific state by observing it from a certain point of view?

What I want to say here, is if your dream is that this world is a playground for souls, what prevents you from making this your reality? Oh but then maybe it won't be the reality for others you say? So? Is it really important what others believe? And even then, what prevents you to share your views with them and hope they will join you in your new vision of the universe. Even if the world is just chaos, that chaos may still be our playground, to learn what is really important and transmit that knowledge to the one after us, to help them to live their lives to the best.

I believe there's something deeper hidden in your questioning that is "does the mind/soul survives the death". At least it's the feeling I get from it. That's another subject IMHO, but I would suggest you to live your life in a way to give life to your dreams, because if you don't even try, there's probably no one else who's going to make your dreams come true


"Living forever does NOT mean you stay the same! Therefore, WE live forever in EACHOTHER!"

This is my belief too, and with such a belief, I don't need to bother determining what will happen when I die, as long as I can die with a feeling of satisfaction, fulfilment, and no regrets left.

Whether there is something after this life or not, I believe that in both case my identity won't survive death, so "I" will certainly die. I've come to accept that, so now I can concentrate on the living part of Life And like said above, this is about giving meaning to this world because it's one of my dreams and I want to make it true :p


Thanks again for sharing your views, it was extremely interesting.

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts

there is infinity after life.
I think we can safetly say that.

reply to post by BBalazs


For sure

What is left to discuss if it's this infinity is cyclical like in the eastern view, or linear like in the western view.

But I believe that if you look at this from an "infinite" perspective, it's probably the same...

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts


yes, let us ponder the infinite. shall it be linear or cyclical.
probably the cyclical will give at least some hope for the dead to arise, so lets go with that
nah, just kidding, I always say, if you wanna live forever: breed! multiply!

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
Thanks for your reply ..You may have picked up on my mention of what I called unlearning ..I guess the process for me started with the first book I tried reading ( Bible) ..As I was in my mid 30s it was a challenge .I soon found out my dictionary was useless for the task .. I recently found a humble professor on the web and took in some of his lectures and he made a very profound statement
that actually describes what I hear echoing in your post ..He calls it Hypnotized by words ..I am not sure where you are from but I can say with certainty that the education system is stacked against the individual using its methods of understanding ..The web site Tragedy and Hope.was a God send for me.It not only confirmed my suspensions but gave me tools to reoriante my mind .

I guess that is why its so frustrating at times when communicating with different people using the same words with different meanings ..religion being one of them ...I found a simple meaning recently that was one I would take ...anyone that prays to a Deity ....Its quite encompassing and it excludes others who do not . as for the organized part of that word well ,its not a matter of believing its so its determining who is doing the organizing that matters ...lol

I agree that spiritual pride (holier than thou) is very ugly . but at the same time it might be necessary like Hypocrisy ...its a ugly sight on others but when it hits home ,look out ..kind of a move it or lose it situation . The atheist troll thing is real ,they admit it ,well some do ..I don't have a problem with the ones that are sincere or the ones that are not ,I just need to be better at identifying the 2 and appropriately responding, if at all ....

Question .whats up with the spacegoatsfarts , I don't get it . care to share ...
.
Agree as well on the bible perspective of understanding ...Its so easy to fall pray to that lack of understanding . It makes it a lot easier to understand ,Lord knows I have struggled in that department , as well as others ..just one hurdle at a time is the way the race goes ,cant change the course , ....peace

I liked this thread because that has happened to me. A sort of ‘now what?’ feeling. And the answer is this. Now go out and DO these things. Join a UFO spotting club. Go to the Monroe Centre and experience an OBE. Or take a remote viewing course. In essence, you will move from books and forums to actual, personal experience.

btw: pondering the infinite is what its all about, it is the very essence of philosophy, and the path through science to know this infinity. a very spiritual journey, indeed.

reply to post by mandroids

you could do all that.
OR
you could just get a hot girlfriend like I did and get jiggly with it

ohh yes, girls are not really into this stuff, so I would steer clear.
what they do like is self capable, dynamic and "controlling" guys who show the way.
just my experiences, and a free 2c advice.

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
Question .whats up with the spacegoatsfarts , I don't get it . care to share ...

It's a secret. Like I said, it's an in-joke between me and the universe, so you couldn't get it. It's from a time I was schizophrenic.












Edit: Ahahah I juste noticed spacegoat is an anagram for scapegoat. How fitting for a paranoid schizophrenic mind Love it.


Thank you all to continue participating in the thread. I have to (make believe) I work a little bit and will come back later.

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts


Greetings OP and I applaud your effort at taking a look at your beliefs and challenging them, for it's only when we truely find an idea we can put through this gauntlet of information that we can emerge with a greater understanding, and appreciation of the life and energy surrounding us.

That said I would really like to get your whole dogma as it pertains to this thread. I have a pretty intrinsically built dogma that's based upon m-theory, the 11-dimensions of the universe(s), scientific observation (and hypothesis) and about 8 years of constant questioning these thoughts.

I replied to this specific post as there is a neurological therapy called neurofeedback which will generally perform a qEEG map of the brain, and compare the individuals brainwave patterns with those of the physiological normal ( z-score ) and are quite successful in diagnosing and treating complex neurological conditions - from personality disorders to traumatic brain injuries - which generally results in the person's overall qEEG aligning up closer with societal norms. To me the brain is just a muscle like any other part of our body and like all muscles requires consistent exercise across all regions for it to optimall function. Unfortunately the brain can get "stuck" and proper exercise to all parts ceases, which leads to a broken reaction system for the individual, resulting in unexplained and irrational behaviors in an individual when compared to the norms.

But the physiological only deals with the spirit's ego, and once we're free from our ego we're able to objectively look at the universe, it's systems and realize that the ego is a perceptual illusion that tricks us into believing that our body is sentient when in reality our body is a complex organism that houses millions of organisms all working together to coexist physically.

Originally posted by BBalazs
btw: pondering the infinite is what its all about, it is the very essence of philosophy, and the path through science to know this infinity. a very spiritual journey, indeed.

edit on 27-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)

That's the first step. The next is pondering the infinite possibilities of the infinite -- or maybe that's the first step.