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Help me challenge my beliefs.

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posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 

edited out, as i feel, it would be too enlightening for all...



edit on 31-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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In a sense, you are right, "I" did all the work, at least from my perspective. And yet, when I'm going to develop my story here, you may start to see that maybe I did not do all the work.


Imagine a lab rat, trapped inside a huge maze, labyrinth, filled with obstacles and traps, rewards and snares.
I'm that rat. Maybe you are too. But anyway, here I am. Trying to understand the meaning of this all, running scared in all directions, bumping into walls, triggering strange devices giving me electric shocks or sometimes, if lucky, a piece of cheese.

This place makes no sense. It depresses me. I start pondering the meaning of this all, and the more I think about it, the more depressed I am, because it's just one big joke played on me by who knows to see how long I will survive in this madness. I tell myself I don't care anymore, and start to wander aimlessly, secretly hoping that I will fall into a deadly trap to end this stupid game.

But it doesn't work as planned. Each time I come across one of these punishment devices, it's like it mysteriously stops working. The more I try to end this, the less it works. Now I'm really pissed off! I'm forced to play this insane game and I can't even quit?

Once again, I fall into depression, and I stay where I am, apathetic and lost. I start to loose track of the time, of identity, I'm in a dark place. A very grim one, and at the same time, it's not really frightening, it reminds me of my mother's womb. How long I stayed there? I don't know, I don't care.

And then, suddenly, lying on my back, I see something I did not before. A strange symbol designed on one of the walls of my prison. I don't understand what it means, but it intrigues me. I start looking for other similar ones, and I find plenty. Where they even there before? Maybe, I'm not sure. But what is certain is I only remember looking on the ground and in front of me before, but now I'm looking all around me.

Fast forward, many trials and errors later, I can now make sense of these symbols, they tell me where the cheese is, and where the traps are. They even sometimes show me how to deactivate those traps, usually with the help of seemingly useless small objects someone left lying around these traps. Who put these "tools" there? Who wrote these symbols? I don't know. But what I know is that my prison is now my playground. I'm entertained and I even start dreaming that some symbols might eventually lead me to the exit of this place. One must have dreams to keep living I tell myself.

I still don't know if there's someone behind all this, but it's bigger than me and almost like designed specifically for me. Also there's still that unexplained luck when all the traps stopped working when I wanted to end it all. Maybe it's my guardian angel, maybe it's that "Scientist" my older brothers were talking about when we were still living together in the plastic box.

I don't know who built this place, this labyrinth, but it surely helped me learn new tricks. I feel more safe now, more equipped to face whatever next I'll encounter.





Now this is all fiction of course, because I'm not a rat. But I think it captures a little what I'm trying to express regarding my approach into the mystical experience. I did not asked for this. It was designed for me. At least I like to think of it that way. "But maybe it's just random events in your life, and you trying to find pattern in it?" you might ask.

Maybe. Hopefully I have a basic knowledge of probabilities and statistics so I can tell what's likely from unlikely.

Littlewood's law states we can all experience one miracle (event with a probability of 1 over 1.000.000) every 35 days.

But what can my rational mind say when I start to experience one miracle every 35 minutes for three weeks?
It can say a few things:
- You are crazy. It's all in your head.
- Consider yourself lucky and shut the frack up. Stop overanalyzing everything.
- What you consider a "miracle" isn't one. You think it's unlikely because you think these events occur out of pure randomness, with no causal will behind them. Maybe your picture of the situation is incorrect. Maybe there is a causal will behind these events, it's just you don't know yet what caused them.

As of today, my mind is still cycling through these three answers, basically, as "Science" can't prove one or the other. But all I can say is I'm not the only one on Earth to have experienced this in a way or another. Actually, it's pretty common. And there are books about this. Serious books. From educated minds. Even from scientists

edit on 31-1-2012 by SpaceGoatsFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 

edited out, as i feel, it would be too enlightening for all...



edit on 31-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)


Oh dang, what did I missed?

Could you at least PM it to me? I'm all for sharing



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by SpaceGoatsFarts
But what can my rational mind say when I start to experience one miracle every 35 minutes for three weeks?


Before you ask me to develop this a bit more, I'll do it, because this is going to be the end of this loooong answer to you, Furbs.

What exactly did I experience that made say something like I experienced a miracle every 35min instead of every 35d?


What is mysticism?

"The present meaning of the term mysticism arose via Platonism and Neoplatonism—which referred to the Eleusinian initiation as a metaphor for the "initiation" to spiritual truths and experiences—and is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually centers on practices intended to nurture those experiences."

An initiation to the experience of the conscious awareness and communion with an ultimate reality. I like that one. But it sounds like I had a '___' trip or something? "Ultimate reality"? What the frack is that? This the kind of crap junkies talk about.

Maybe.

But I assure you I was sober. For 3 weeks I was sober, and for 3 weeks I was in wonderland. But it wasn't all in my head, unlike a mush or '___' trip. I interacted with people during that time, my parents among others, and they were as puzzled as me as to what was happening. You know what some call "synchronicities"? A feeling to be like connected to other things through some grand scheme of things? Well, I was in that feeling for all the duration of the experience. I was not only feeling connected to everything and everyone around me, I was experiencing it. I was getting feedback from the world around me.

I saw how by the changing my mood and thoughts, my perception of the world, and thus the world around me, started to change. Sometimes it was just subtle, like if scared the world would turn dark and spooky suddenly, and as soon as I would be happy the colours would come back and be more vibrant than ever. Like I said, I was changing my perception of the world, and by that, I was changing my world.

But this is no real mystery. This is perfectly normal if you think about it (and yet how many people continue living in a gloomy mindset knowing that it will affect their life and experience of the world? Why do you think people on ATS looking for conspiracies will find confirmations everywhere?) Like I said, mysticism is not mysterious actually, it's pretty simple. But what matters really is to EXPERIENCE it for yourself. To try.

That is for the most "mundane" effects I witnessed during that time. To introduce you to it. But much more happened. Much much more. If you want more examples, I can tell you a few;
- Experiences of something like telepathy. Me thinking about something specific and my mother suddenly asking me why I was thinking about that
- Experiences of thoughts projection. Me thinking about something and immediately witnessing it happen around me.
- Experiences of prescience. Me experiencing events I had foreseen long in advance.

All these experiences go back to what I quoted in the definition above: "conscious awareness and communion with an ultimate reality"

From the moment I started to acknowledge the existence of this ultimate reality, my life changed, for the best. But I won't make the mistake of telling you what that "ultimate reality" is because it would be a lie to tell you I know.


Now, it could still be delusion from me, but like I said, even if it is, it's fine for me because it makes my life better. And furthermore, I know it's all part of an existing and documented process (again, read the linked book if you have the time ;D), so that helps me to keep my ego at check so that I don't think I'm "special" and start talking like a guru, because I'm far from being a saint.


That, in a huge nutshell, is my personal experience of mysticism, and why I can't say it's only my hard work that got me there.

Mysticism:
"An initiation to the experience of the conscious awareness and communion with an ultimate reality."

Remember my lab rat story above. I'm the lab rat. The ultimate reality is not only the maze, its laws and it's purpose. It's also whatever made this labyrinth for the rat to learn whatever the rat wants to learn. The rat did all the job of learning, but if it wasn't for the existence of that maze, and the fate to be selected from the plastic box to be put in the maze, the rat wouldn't have the ability to learn.

Mysticism is the maze, the Labyrinth. I had the luck to enter it, and I'm glad someone built it for me to lose myself in it


I said earlier that poets are better than I to express mystical realities. I still think so:

The Labyrinth

Gliding along the winding path
in a circle of safety
releasing my grip on my cares
and opening up inside,
dilated at the center of my soul. . .
not a hole,
a vessel
a place of silence
a vacancy reserved for God
for spiritual communion,
an inner sanctuary
purified by the consuming fire
of the Holy Spirit
and what is left there. . .
etched in the center of my soul,
is:
"I am with you, there is nothing to fear"








edit on 31-1-2012 by SpaceGoatsFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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To conclude, you could tell me "but if you experienced things like telepathy and thought projection, why don't you go test it in a controlled environment to prove it works?"

Easy.

- It doesn't work on command (at least for me).
- I don't see why I should, this experience was meant for me, not for others who could twist its meaning.
- I see what happens to those who try, and I suppose they fail because they try for the wrong reasons. If that "reality" is greater than them, maybe it doesn't want to be manipulated and forced to act.
- I know how people react when they are presented with something that contradicts their personal views; bad.
- I know how the medical world reacts when someone seems to function in a way which is not the "accepted norm", even if he's harmless; medication to bring him back to a "normal" functioning. No thanks.


I hope this showed you why science is not agreeing with mysticism, why the mystical reality or surreality will always escape scientific scrutiny and why it doesn't need it as a way to validate its own existence.

Maybe one day the framework of science will be broad enough to start looking at something as large as an ALL-encompassing "ultimate reality", but in the meantime, it's still looking at the finger, when the finger is in fact pointing at the moon.

The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday--but never jam to-day.'
'It MUST come sometimes to "jam to-day,"' Alice objected.
'No, it can't,' said the Queen. 'It's jam every OTHER day: to-day isn't any OTHER day, you know.'
'I don't understand you,' said Alice. 'It's dreadfully confusing!'
'That's the effect of living backwards,' the Queen said kindly: 'it always makes one a little giddy at first--'
'Living backwards!' Alice repeated in great astonishment. 'I never heard of such a thing!'
'--but there's one great advantage in it, that one's memory works both ways.'
'I'm sure MINE only works one way,' Alice remarked. 'I can't remember things before they happen.'
'It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' the Queen remarked.

edit on 31-1-2012 by SpaceGoatsFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 
Have you looked at The Global Consciousness Project
Meaningful Correlations in Random Data ?
noosphere.princeton.edu...



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Something I wanted to make mention ...When I first read the bible one of the first things I came across that was a parable ..I did not know what a parable was but I understood the parable ...I have experienced the need to re understand the many things I thought I knew in the story but the meaning of the parable means the same thing to me today ...This is a mystery to me as to why that would be , other than God works in mysterious ways ..the parable of the trees of the forest . still enjoying the thread''...peace



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 


So how do you feel about the power of suggestion and expectation? In that your thought projection is creating the conditions of expecting a synchronized reaction. Do you disagree that pareidolia and apophenia are real phenomena?


edit on 31-1-2012 by juveous because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 
Have you looked at The Global Consciousness Project
Meaningful Correlations in Random Data ?
noosphere.princeton.edu...



Yes I remember that project. Interesting. If it can produce any substantial data, why not.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by the2ofusr1
the parable of the trees of the forest


Could you precise a bit, I cannot find which one you are talking about. Thanks



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
So how do you feel about the power of suggestion and expectation? In that your thought projection is creating the conditions of expecting a synchronized reaction. Do you disagree that pareidolia and apophenia are real phenomena?


I think they are very potent and real phenomenons. We discussed about the placebo effect earlier, and I'm the first one to acknowledge that I might be programming myself to see patterns where there are none. It's the way our brains are wired, to ignore most information until we think we get the glimpse of a pattern, and then focus our attention on it. That's how we recognize faces, that's even how you read this text, while it's actually just a bunch of pixel with different color codes. You tell yourself that these bunches of pixels mean something because you recognize a pattern in them, so you suspect that they are actually NOT random. And in this very case, you are correct.

While in other cases, like this nice picture, it's nothing more than a (still funny) coincidence:


But in both case, it's the same process at hand. Without that pattern recognition tool, we would be overwhelmed by useless information, forced to pay attention to all the background noise just to be sure we won't miss anything relevant or meaningful. Pattern recognition allows us to go in "ignore" mode for everything which doesn't correlate with what we consider meaningful.

I don't know what more I can say here. I've repeated many times to take my story with a grain of salt, that I might be fooling myself and that I'm overthinking this, and even that I suffered depression and a brief schizophrenic episode where I was clearly seeing things that do not exist. If you expect me to bluntly say I imagined everything, I won't. Because like I said, I wasn't the only one involved and a few extremely strange events happened not only to me but also involving those around me.

So I don't jump to any conclusion, I just listed the different possibilities I thought about (me fooling myself, and me experiencing something bigger than me), and try to keep them in mind all the time since I can't really conclude yet as to which one is real. I'm not trying to convince anyone here, I talked about this only because someone asked me to. You may believe I lost my critical sense, but I can assure you it's one of my main priorities not to.

Like I said, if I'm deluded, I'm taking it in a very pragmatic way. I'm happy to be deluded because you have no idea how better my life now is. That would be very ungrateful of me to refuse such a gift under the pretext that it cannot be, that I need to dismiss it as irrelevant and that I should go back to a state where I struggle to find my place in a meaningless world, and where I hide from my fears while executing my daily routines.


I never pretended to hold the truth, I just presented mine.

Edit: furthermore, about "the power of suggestion and expectation", I even think it's something we should be encouraged to think about more often. Like in my experience, when it was made very visual, with my mood influencing the colours of the world around me (afraid; dark / joyful; vibrant). We all know how an important role in our living the mindset, the auto-suggestion, the expectations are playing. So why can't we pay more attention to them? Why do many people keep getting trapped in a depressive or alienating mindset when they could control it more? My experience was also a lesson in that if I want to live a more happy life, I have to do it NOW. I have to visualize myself doing it, and then to actually DO it.

The power of suggestion and expectation is real, we shouldn't let it rule our lives subconsciously, we should use it to shape our world to match our dreams, and then work in order to make these dreams real.
edit on 1-2-2012 by SpaceGoatsFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 


You seem very well headed. What do you say about conviction? You are the one that said help me challenge my beliefs. Beliefs still allow for the window of argument like this thread is an example of. The heaviest argument usually wins over belief. Convictions close that window, or they are so apriori that proof and evidence become insignificant. Such as the case with personal suspicion, or the intuitive segue for possible truths. Do you believe that suspicion is a form of conviction? If so, can you be suspicious of your suspicion?

Hope there's no confusion



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 


You seem very well headed. What do you say about conviction? You are the one that said help me challenge my beliefs. Beliefs still allow for the window of argument like this thread is an example of. The heaviest argument usually wins over belief. Convictions close that window, or they are so apriori that proof and evidence become insignificant. Such as the case with personal suspicion, or the intuitive segue for possible truths. Do you believe that suspicion is a form of conviction? If so, can you be suspicious of your suspicion?

Hope there's no confusion


I think you are absolutely correct, conviction is one level stronger than belief, and even more closed to self-examination.

I'm not sure to agree that suspicion equals conviction, just like a suspect isn't (yet) a convict. It needs some form of confirmation first and therefore is still open to doubt.

"Can I be suspicious of my suspicions?"

Hmmm.


Errrh.




Duh. I'm sorry I think my brain just melted :p

Isn't being suspicious of your own suspicions a form of critical mind and self examination? And thus desirable?

While being convinced of your convictions is much more like recognizing you are being stubborn, but not changing anything about it?

Does that make any sense what I'm saying?



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Words typed online by a stranger will not be enough to change your beliefs, you must seek the truth continually, get out in the world, go searching for something extraordinary and you will gain in knowledge, spirituality, and as a person in general... Good luck my friend, it is not easy
edit on 8-2-2012 by theflamingswan92 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by theflamingswan92
Words typed online by a stranger will not be enough to change your beliefs, you must seek the truth continually, get out in the world, go searching for something extraordinary and you will gain in knowledge, spirituality, and as a person in general... Good luck my friend, it is not easy
edit on 8-2-2012 by theflamingswan92 because: (no reason given)



Thanks for your advices, but I don't think you got me right. Get out in the world? I've walked the martian landscapes of Iceland. I climbed a volcano in Guadeloupe. I ate noodles in Beijing, Cesar's salads in Manhattan, and Antipasti in front of the Coliseum. I visited monasteries in Shangri-lah, Rila, and Cuba. I caressed the lying Buddha of the Wat Pho and walked among the standing stones of Carnac.

Like I said, I don't feel like I miss anything. I feel like I'm full. Like I found the spiritual truths that make my life better.

I just wanted to check with some piercing minds if I'm not fooling myself. But probably that I'm the only one who can answer that :p

Like said in the OP, I reached some kind of plateau. I feel perfectly comfortable in my life right now. I don't feel like I need more knowledge. More like more purpose. I do love my job and am glad it helps people worldwide. I just wonder if there isn't something else I could do?

I did not come here in the hope people will come with answers on a platter. Like I said, I just wanted to use the dynamics of conversation to try to make the answers I need emerge from themselves, because they are inside me. It's called maieutics


In that regard, yes, the words from a stranger on the net are more than enough



“No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.
The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.
If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.”



But thanks nevertheless, my friend :p


edit on 9-2-2012 by SpaceGoatsFarts because: (no reason given)



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