Did Carl Sagan know something?

Originally posted by interupt42

The fact that someone knew that DNA contained 4 billion parts versus 1 Billion back then is irrelevant to the so called Alien response and argument. That is a different conspiracy all together.

The fact is that the original message sent out DID contain 4 Billion (according to the OP) and not 1 billion. Hence, its plausible and makes sense that the so called drunks with time on their hands copied the message then slightly altered it to make it look like a response.
So:
1. Everyone as the OP said had seen the original message which contained 4 Billion DNA parts.
2. The drunks with time on their hands who didn't even know what DNA was simply copied the message with 4 billion parts and slightly altered the number.

Now had the original message that was sent would have contained that the Human DNA composed of 1 Billion parts and they replied back with 4 billion, and we found that out to be true after the fact then you might have something worth considering.


In addition with my problem with crop circles (agriculture graffiti ) is that you not only have to accept that Aliens exist, but you almost have to assume that the crop circles are being done by rebellious teenage Aliens. I can't imagine that we would find another planet with life and then we would have our Scientist and Engineers reply by graffiting their planet?

edit on 25-1-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

You still didn't answer the main question asked by the OP and indeed the same question that I have been reiterating.

Yes as you can gather from my post and from the part of it you quoted the people that sent the message from earth sent it stating that the human DNA has over 4 billion parts.

Apparently you failed to comprehend the point here. I will attempt to put it into simple terms for you. This point can also be gathered by a mediocre brain from the OP.

Lets analyze this little segment from the OP.

During the following years after the message was beamed into space a few people noticed it appeared to have an error, or so they thought because at that time it was believed by all main stream scientists that the human DNA string had a length of about 1 billion base pairs. Carl stated this many times in his own work and it was at that time accepted by everyone as being about right. However, the message that was beamed into space gave the length as a little over four billion.
As you can see, there's a big difference between 1 billion and 4 billion and this was the error that people were talking about. While Carls own work repeated the belief that the length was about one billion he failed to notice that the message stated four billion. Carl had on many occasions talked about the message explaining how to read it and even having it printed.
Carl was far from being a stupid man and over the years he should have noticed the error, he should have noticed it every time he looked at it but apparently he didn't.

Now lets add the title of this thread......

Did Carl Sagan know something?

If you get it now then now you understand what the OP is trying to get at. If not please read further...........


You see back when this message was transmitted by Dr Sagan and the others the known and accepted number of base pairs for the human DNA was about 1 billion.

HOWEVER, the message that Dr Sagan and his colleagues sent said that the human DNA had a base pair of over 4 billion+ which is now considered to be correct.

The thing is the 4 billion+ number for the human DNA base pairs was NOT discovered until thirty years AFTER the message was sent by Sagan and the others.

Hence the TITLE OF THIS THREAD .....
"Did Carl Sagan know something?"

So the question remains........

How did the people that created the initial message to be sent from earth know that human DNA actually contained over 4 billion parts instead of the well known and generally accepted throughout the entire scientific community 1 billion?

Recall that the OP mentioned that basically the entire scientific community at the time this message was sent were on the same consensus that there were only 1 billion parts to human DNA.

Recall that the OP mentioned that untold amounts of copies of the original message that was transmitted from earth were made world wide over a period of many years and this "error" was never mentioned.

-Alien

Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Very funny:-)
Your dismissal of a proved hoax, is my ignorance?
You may see flying pots in your sky, and you may not be able to explain it, but others maybe able to.
If you have such an open mind, have you considered you may be hallucinating, it may be the flying spaghetti monster, it maybe a weather ballon, reflaction, etc.

Now, now be open minded!
There is 0 proof for ufos recently visiting the planet.
Provide the evidence and I will know, until then I will be skeptical and critical of others hysteria and manipulation.

There is plenty of evidence. First of all eye witness testimony is considered evidence in a court of law. Now we both know there is plenty of those.

So I guess you want maybe some other type of evidence? What about video evidence? we both know there is plenty of that too, but there are so many fakes

Okay how about government documents? well now there are also plenty of those have a look here.....
The Black Vault

Well there is also physical evidence if you prefer......There are at least somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 UFO physical trace cases. Have a look here for starters.....Physical evidence


-Alien

reply to post by VoidHawk
Just curious,how and why are these crop circle messages being decoded into english? Are these crop circle messages being sent in the english language,meaning whoever or whatever is sending and making them knows they'll be decoded into the english language? if so then why are they not sending them to be decoded by us into japanese or french or italian? Why english? Thats sound like a sinister usa military project to me?! Or am i missing something?

There is a great possibility of this being true. If there was any kind of Extraterrestrial life out there then he would have been the one to know about it. The signal intercepted must have originated somewhere by some highly intelligent form of life.

reply to post by VoidHawk


To answer the OP question,,
Yes, I think we can safely assume Carl Sagan knew something..

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Well make sure it's equally poorly researched as this one is, the citizens of ATS just love being mislead (Carl Sagan's involvement in the creation of the message), you'll get another 200 flags for sure!

After reading this article, I emailed Cornell News Services to ask who actually wrote what in the Arecibo message and if they can shed any light on the 1 vs 4 billion DNA question.
www.news.cornell.edu...

The content of the message was developed by Frank Drake, then professor of astronomy at Cornell and now a professor in the Division of Natural Sciences at the University of California at Santa Cruz and president of the SETI Institute; Richard Isaacman, then a Cornell graduate student and now working at Integral Systems Inc. in Lanham, Md.; Linda May, another graduate student now professor of physical sciences at Wheelock College in Massachussetts, and James C.G. Walker, then a member of the Arecibo staff and now professor of physical sciences at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor. Others, especially the late Carl Sagan, who eventually became the David Duncan Professor of Astronomy and Space Sciences at Cornell, contributed to the project.

Arecibo Observatory is operated by the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, managed by Cornell University for the National Science Foundation.

reply to post by MeMyselfI


Like everthing unknown there will be lots of different interpretations, mine of both our message and the response would be.. Ours- Hey greys we humans 3rd from the sun know your out there and want to make contact please and as proof heres your dna sequence number 4 something billion. Their response - Clever children, but your number is close but of by 500 odd thousand, your abit confused on the double helix rna stuff and their is only 8 official planets around your sun with a asteroid belt seperating the inner and outer 4......
As for the form of communication in crop circles to make it available to all, would seem easier with the right tech to hijack the radio and tv waves used by all channels in all countries and do a broadcast imo...

The disc looks very much like a compact disc and contains a message. The message
is written in binary and when converted it produces the following.

Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING.
___________________________________________

Thats what the op put in the opening post...

Just curious,how and why are these crop circle messages being decoded into english?

Are these crop circle messages being sent in the english language,meaning whoever or whatever is sending and making them knows they'll be decoded into the english language?

If so then why are they not sending them to be decoded by us into japanese or french or italian?

Why english?

Do the aliens only speak and send coded messages in english?

Does anyone know how many years Carl Sagan fought with his cancer ? And does anyone know when or what year Sagan stopped working with intelligence/government or did he work with them right up until the end ?

The reason I ask these questions is that it seems all too common in the past 4-5 decades that a lot of "inside" people are dropping like flies of incurable/inoperable type cancers and/or cancers that suddenly crop up and kill them within 3-6 months.

So I'm wondering if Sagan pulled away from any government type work and then whether or not he developed cancer not too long afterward.

That may give some idea as to whether he "knew too much" or not.



Just trying to colour outside the lines...

I was always intrigued by the title of carl sagans 1995 published book "the demon haunted world" really weird?!

reply to post by blocula


If you were to communicate to an unknown species with multiple languages you would probably choose the most common one. 10yrs ago it was estimated that over 1.5 billion people can speak english although in alot of cases its not the native language, followed by 1.3 billion who speak the different versions of chinese. Seems obvious to me if you were trying to communicate to the majority english would be your choice....

Originally posted by blocula
The disc looks very much like a compact disc and contains a message. The message
is written in binary and when converted it produces the following.

Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING.
___________________________________________

Thats what the op put in the opening post...

Just curious,how and why are these crop circle messages being decoded into english?

Are these crop circle messages being sent in the english language,meaning whoever or whatever is sending and making them knows they'll be decoded into the english language?

If so then why are they not sending them to be decoded by us into japanese or french or italian?

Why english?

Do the aliens only speak and send coded messages in english?

edit on 25-1-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

If we're talking to them in english then it make sense that they reply in english but I thought the message is too cryptic to be able to make any sense of it.

I'm a bit late to this thread - but it was a fascinating read.

Yes - without a doubt and IMO Carl Sagan was a man decades ahead of the rest of the world. He was a man of foresight and immense capacity for deep-thought. It has been suggested that he was close-minded on the subject of extra-terrestrial life by a poster early in the thread. Perhaps he was early in his career - but that attitude quickly changed, and this change of thought was very apparent in some of his works. Just look at "Cosmos", it sequel "A Pale Blue Dot - a vision of human future in space", Contact etc. etc. His general attitude whilst doing the docu version of "Cosmos" was one of unbiased and great openness towards the subject - just look at his explanation of the Drake Equation or his wonderful approach to the "3D beings visiting flat-land can only be seen partially by flatlanders".

So yes - Carl Sagan knew something. Interesting find on the base pairs. Perhaps the so-called "aliens" are really just our future-selves. S + F.

reply to post by shimmeringsilver73




Do not slander carl sagan!
Find a clear quote where he says ets are visiting the earth, or alien abductions are happening, or crop circles are real.
Just do it, before askewing his memory.

reply to post by BBalazs


Slander Carl Sagan???

Where did I say in my post that Carl Sagan specified that "aliens are visiting us" or that "crop-circles are real" or that "alien abductions are happening"??? That is a long stretch and a leap to conclusions on your part.

I simply stated that he embraced the possibility of ALIEN LIFE EXISTING SOMEWHERE IN OUR UNIVERSE with an open mind. In fact - the term I used in my post was "the subject of extra-terrestrial life". Not "the subject of extra-terrestrial life abducting me in my sleep" or "the subject of extra-terrestrial life scrutinizing BBalazs right now with a telescopic lens from immediately outside our atmosphere".

His entire Contact book was written on the premise of an intelligent signal received from Vega, the human race's varied and complicated reaction to this news, the journey of 5 people travelling via an interconnected and sophisticated worm-hole system which had been created by an advanced ET race yonks before the Vegans even arrived there, and the systematic and almost child-like first introduction given by the Vegans to these 5 humans on the "first steps of humanity into interaction with ETs" etc etc. If that doesn't signify significant open-mindedness to the subject - what does?

Sjeez. Have some coffee.

reply to post by shimmeringsilver73

You are right. I apologize.
I did indeed jump to conclusions, as many here have suggested that Carl Sagan believed in crop circles (but was silenced) or did believe in the "ufo phenomenon" as reported many ufo buffs.
Some people mistake his belief in alien civilizations, as being fact that be bought into the ufo phenenoma.
Once again, you are right, I did jump to conclusions.
I will now have some coffee.

reply to post by BBalazs


No problemo BBalazs. It takes a big person to apologize - so your apology is much appreciated.

Hope your coffee was super-delicious.

We can at least all agree one thing on this forum - with crop circles and ets and visitation arguments put aside - and that is that Carl Sagan Totally Rulez!

reply to post by shimmeringsilver73


Absolutley!

I love this video dedicated to Carl Sagan, and it should put things in perspective:
www.youtube.com...


It also is very close to what I believe is Carl Sagans view of the universe and extra terrestrial life.
Enjoy!

reply to post by BBalazs
Carl Sagan had some interest in UFO reports from at least August 3,1952 when he wrote a letter to US Secretary of State Dean Acheson to ask how the US would respond if flying saucers turned out to be extraterrestrial...

Theres a whole section in this link about Carl Sagan and ufos > en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by blocula


well sure, but exploring a hypothetical possibility does not a belief make.
i mean, i could ask you to share your opinion, that were the Moon an alien spaceship, what would that entail.
No, answering this hypothetical question would not mean you in turn believe it to be an alien spaceship.
You are merely pondering the possibility of it being so.