God is Time

reply to post by absolutely

There's a large language barrier. Are you trying to say that since the notion of God is "out of reality" (trans: outside reality). So, in your mind, that this is where free expression derives itself? (in your words "free expressions cant but be through true existence")? Therefore "existence is forced negatively through infinite inferiority" this then meaning existence of free expression can't derive from something inferior like mundane terra, but instead must come from a greater source? Therefore "a fortiori," God must be greater than time?

Originally posted by Xtraeme
reply to post by absolutely

 

There's a large language barrier. Are you trying to say that since the notion of God is "out of reality" (trans: outside reality). So, in your mind, that this is where free expression derives itself? (in your words "free expressions cant but be through true existence")? Therefore "existence is forced negatively through infinite inferiority" this then meaning existence of free expression can't derive from something inferior like mundane terra, but instead must come from a greater source? Therefore "a fortiori," God must be greater than time?

edit on 25-1-2012 by Xtraeme because: (no reason given)

of course not what you are trying to convey is ridiculious and debile

first if god exist then time life is his freedom entity so whatever move dont change its fact same constant life ways, and of course time would be bc of his move wills ends result on whole objective existence dimension ground that involve all gods freedom, when he is initiator of existence times then he doesnt transcend it since time is never superior to his free existence and wills

and no obviously free expressions are existing in truth realisations ways bc reality exist, that is how we reach that absurdity that we are more while talking to others or in objective absolute ways of being real then when we are alone, alone god is the one while with others relative true realisations is objectively existing

we are ruled by monsters and the biggest monster is god existence creations, you love him is ur issue nothing objective since you are relative but the issue of gods being monsters is an absolute one to all and any particularly existing freedom right

reply to post by absolutely

I imagine when you use CQFD you mean, "ce qu'il fallait démontrer" (as in "which was to be demonstrated")? I'm going to take a guess and assume you're French. Try to understand that what you're writing doesn't parse in English. It would be like me trying to communicate with you in French by going to translate.google.com, typing in English sentences, and then pasting the French translation verbatim as a response. So, stringing together the components of what is intelligible. I take it rather you view the abstraction of God as absolute. Therefore incapable of change. (This is how I interpret, "if god exist then time life is his freedom entity so whatever move dont change its fact same constant ... no obviously free expressions are existing in truth realisations ways bc reality exist."). So therefore God can't be time. Since time is change. Am I warm?

Originally posted by Xtraeme
reply to post by absolutely

 

I imagine when you use CQFD you mean, "ce qu'il fallait démontrer" (as in "which was to be demonstrated")? I'm going to take a guess and assume you're French. Try to understand that what you're writing doesn't parse in English. It would be like me trying to communicate with you in French by going to translate.google.com, typing in English sentences, and then pasting the French translation verbatim as a response. So, stringing together the components of what is intelligible. I take it rather you view the abstraction of God as absolute. Therefore incapable of change. (This is how I interpret, "if god exist then time life is his freedom entity so whatever move dont change its fact same constant ... no obviously free expressions are existing in truth realisations ways bc reality exist."). So therefore God can't be time. Since time is change. Am I warm?

the abstraction of god is exactly as ur abstraction just one freedom, god is evil concept to objective existence forcing it to be its wills possessions one freedom
god as true existing one is relative only to any other god or even any self awareness being even so even for an animal being real god is just another one not even else one

what i said about being the same, is life of one yes always same since life involve all the freedom one end objectivity fact of its most superior wills

time is not change on the contrary time is what kills reality rights ends, time is always meaning all destructions end while the restart is of more evil every time as the powerful life source

reply to post by Philodemus

WOW! Phil! First of all...I have admitted to everyone on this board that I have three Major Weaknesses...1. I can't spell worth a crap! LOL! 2. I can never remember where I placed my keys or sunglasess and 3. I have a MASSIVE EGO!

Now the ego thing has a reason and if you perhaps check on a few of my other posts you might begin to get an understanding of who and what I am and why a big ego is so important...but that is up to you to decide if you want to find out.

Yes I read your post and what dismays me is you do not see the interconnection of my reply to yours and how it applies to your topic and this Forum. That being...the Spiritual World and any other word that connects with Metaphysics or a GOD or TIME has EVERYTHING to do in what I was trying to explain...and I was not trying to be rude.

Your topic is God Is Time. But what is GOD to any individual how does that associate with time. Without Time you cannot have movement thus MATTER AND ENERGY CANNOT EXIST. Period. The basic construct of anything that is Matter is comprised of particles of both Mass and Energy...the thing is that we have discovered that even an Electron or a Photon...a changed Electron...that is a particle of LIGHT....also have a Micro Mass.

So here is how it all connects to your topic...Since Time is simply a mesurement of MOVEMENT of Particles over distance....and since distance in our Universal state is Relative as is Time...since all Objects of Mass will create a Gravity well no matter how big or small dependent upon the amount of Mass...as it pertains to your topic....Logic dictates if God is Time and Time is Relative then so must GOD be relative.

So if we are actually living in a Multiverse with Many Divergent Universal States as well as Many Universal States at an Infinite Level that have nothing to do with us....where Time there may not even exist as a law of Physics....then does that mean GOD does not exist where Time does not exist?

By the way...what I am talking about is not Physics 101. And although I bear you no ill will...and could have but did not pick appart many inaccuracies that you stated even though you pointed out my...well known to this Board...Bad Spelling Issue...I would like to give you a bit of advice....In one of my jobs...I deal with very dangerous people who i cannot trust and it is my job to make contact and protect my associates on my team. I have found that 100% of the time that hostilities break out is when there is a lack of communication or an assumption by one side or the other on what they believe the other side is doing. Don't let that happen here. I was trying to help not judge or make you look silly. Believe that. Split Infinity

reply to post by absolutely


I think i might understand what you were trying to express...


if we are ignorant, as a default setting of individual conscious beings....We have the opportunity to be able to grow and learn, build knowledge and evolve and make subjective beliefs of the objective reality, create our own path or groove, explore that individuality...

taken to the extreme; if immediately after you were born, god were to take your point of awareness and immerse it with all truth of the universe, every aspect of fact,every potential and every possibility, to fill you with complete understanding,, you would not be free in anyway, or you would not be able to be subjective...

you would be a slave of the absolute truth?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by absolutely

 

I think i might understand what you were trying to express...


if we are ignorant, as a default setting of individual conscious beings....We have the opportunity to be able to grow and learn, build knowledge and evolve and make subjective beliefs of the objective reality, create our own path or groove, explore that individuality...

taken to the extreme; if immediately after you were born, god were to take your point of awareness and immerse it with all truth of the universe, every aspect of fact,every potential and every possibility, to fill you with complete understanding,, you would not be free in anyway, or you would not be able to be subjective...

you would be a slave of the absolute truth?

We use very little of our Brains true capabilities...and thought in ALPHA Wave state tends to be the key to accessing past...present...and future. CATS brains are always in ALPHA state and it has been proven that a pet...especially a DOG who also can do this...WILL KNOW....at a tested maximum of 9 minutes that their owner is coming home.

They have tested this again and again and it is ALWAYS the same....no matter how long a Master is gone....or how they arrive...or even if put in an AIR TIGHT SUIT...to eliminate the posibility of smell....a CAT or DOG KNOWS. The Dog is more excited about it and jumps around near the door....when a plan is installed for the owner to use a back door or side door...the animal will go to that door before the owner gets there.

Since Cats are not like Dogs in being a Pack like social animal...scientists wired up their brains and observed the changes just before the owner came home. This Alpha Wave state is usually not a state that Humans stay in for a long time conciously...some obtain it unconsciously....some can Meditate to achieve it but it is associated with piercing LINEAR TIME and is a good example that time is not Linear at all but is in fact concurrent in a Multiversal System.

Now certain people who are sensitives can access this state of Mental Singularity as every point in the Space/Time continuum is the same point and all time via One Dimentionality or Singularity. The FBI and Law Enforcement use these people often to locate Bodies or Lost Children with some amazing sucess...but there are other types of Sensitives that are Hired for Military Applications. Although these programs ran heavy in both the U.S. and CCCP during the Cold War...they are not dead. I have witnessed a form of ability called Remote Viewing...I was like...Ya...Right! This is not going to work! But It DID! And to a degree that I would never have believed.

Now as you have said...being a Slave to the ABSOLUTE TRUTH....or even further....being able to KNOW what is coming or going to Happen....these people...and they are very private and introverted....see one or more several possible versions of what will be...it is their ability to filter out the ones that do not apply. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Thanks for that information, very cool indeed!

I have seen some stuff on remote viewing and its accuracy pretty awesome,, but it is still nowhere near to absolute truth on the level i meant to express... it is incredible people can in their minds single out a certain area on this planet down to the location of a person, and we can speculate ( im sure there are books and books) on how this is done, but the absolute reality cannot be known by human eyes that look and see...the absolute truth would be perceiving all perceptions via a perceptionless point( in the entire universe) to fully comprehend and understand all of what is happening on an eternal and universal scale, without knowing a thing,...

that animal thing is some great info though, definitely food for thought

reply to post by ImaFungi

Thanks for the kind words. I think that Humans are just not Evolved enough yet to truly understand what Reality is and all other aspects...but some people can access it even if they don't know what it is. Maybe in 10,000 years if Humans are still around...we might be able to understand. Split Infinity

Time is mind and mind is not God.
God is timeless, eternal.
Mind and time is an appearance.
God is the seer and knower of all things, including time and mind.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by absolutely

 

I think i might understand what you were trying to express...


if we are ignorant, as a default setting of individual conscious beings....We have the opportunity to be able to grow and learn, build knowledge and evolve and make subjective beliefs of the objective reality, create our own path or groove, explore that individuality...

taken to the extreme; if immediately after you were born, god were to take your point of awareness and immerse it with all truth of the universe, every aspect of fact,every potential and every possibility, to fill you with complete understanding,, you would not be free in anyway, or you would not be able to be subjective...

you would be a slave of the absolute truth?

u reject the truth, truth conception is the opposite of god
god is relative one objectively
one is freedom and freedom is one

we are all one only in absolute truth, while truth is objective freedom realities all that u cant limit

existence is meaning at least one freedom objective existing but it is nothing freedom as one cant b to objective truth realms

u dont get it, what truth is freedom value then every free sense is related to best definitive logics ends to its free wills

it is truth mister not someone checking details of each thought and move

reply to post by MoeSantana


No, you don't need to "re-iterate". You need to finish reading my post and the replys by Xtraeme, Astyanax and eyesdown. Do that and get back to me.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

.
That's fine. And with no disrespect or sarcasm, I respect your own private research and self-teaching. I can relate to your endeavour.

I just thought that I made it very clear that I am NOT trying to prove god/God is ACTUALLY time. Personally, I don't really care. This thread's purpose was NOT to express my personal opinion on the actual existence or nonexistence and attributes of a god/God.

The purpose of the thread was merely to make you think about how the human refers to time in much the same way as they refer to god/God. That's really it. Just a long winded way about it

reply to post by SplitInfinity


reply to post by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Philodemus

 

WOW! Phil! First of all...I have admitted to everyone on this board that I have three Major Weaknesses...1. I can't spell worth a crap! LOL! 2. I can never remember where I placed my keys or sunglasess and 3. I have a MASSIVE EGO![qoute]

I mentioned it was my first post, yes? How, or more importantly WHY would I care to know, about your personality traits? I was unaware it was my job to research the history of those posting on my thread. I thought those coming would turn their brains on, ask appropriate questions on areas that are unclear (if needed) and then contribute in someway other then being immediately condescending to the author for reasons unrelated to the subject of said thread. Maybe next time you are "greeting" a new member, you could start with a list of your flaws and circumvent the problem altogether.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Philodemus

 

So here is how it all connects to your topic...Since Time is simply a mesurement of MOVEMENT of Particles over distance....and since distance in our Universal state is Relative as is Time...since all Objects of Mass will create a Gravity well no matter how big or small dependent upon the amount of Mass...as it pertains to your topic....Logic dictates if God is Time and Time is Relative then so must GOD be relative.

So if we are actually living in a Multiverse with Many Divergent Universal States as well as Many Universal States at an Infinite Level that have nothing to do with us....where Time there may not even exist as a law of Physics....then does that mean GOD does not exist where Time does not exist?

Wrong. That proves that you do not understand the intent of my post in the slightest. I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING. I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE GOD IS TIME.

I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE GOD IS TIME.

The title of the thread is misleading to this idea, but that is what all writers do. They grab your attention with title but do not base it so far out of the ballpark that once you've read the article you feel ripped off. I was trying to make a correlation in the way man refers to both god/God and time in similar terms and in the way that man has come to worship time as though it were a god.
I was speaking analogically. It is a prose expression of a poetic idea I have mulled around for years. I did not feel as though it fit well enough under any of the other forum headings for, boiled down it is a philosophical concept. Why would I try to prove that time is literally god? Who would attempt such an asinine feat?

That's it. It's a pity I have to spell it out for such an obviously intelligent individual as yourself.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Philodemus

 

By the way...what I am talking about is not Physics 101. And although I bear you no ill will...and could have but did not pick appart many inaccuracies that you stated even though you pointed out my...well known to this Board...Bad Spelling Issue...I would like to give you a bit of advice....In one of my jobs...I deal with very dangerous people who i cannot trust and it is my job to make contact and protect my associates on my team. I have found that 100% of the time that hostilities break out is when there is a lack of communication or an assumption by one side or the other on what they believe the other side is doing. Don't let that happen here. I was trying to help not judge or make you look silly. Believe that. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity





How do your ego issues work out for you in such a profession? Perhaps, once you are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet you can express the ignorance of your ego without fear of getting shived in the neck by a disgruntled patient/inmate (which ever the case may be)? Here's the problem you DID mean to make me look silly. There is no other possible way to interpret phrases like:

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Philodemus

 

Phil...I will try to take it easy on you! LOL! First of all...we are not living in a 4 dimentional Universe....current calculations put it either 10 or 11....probably more in my opinion...and I will prove this to you. Hopefully you will understand a bit of Physics.
There is more I could tell you about other infinite Universal conditions where we do not exist and have different physical laws altogether...but I think that will be a bit too much for now.

You can colour this two ways till Sunday, but buddy it's clear as day what your intent was. I do not consider myself a genius but I can take a hint.

Here's the reality. You probably should have checked your ego at the door and picked apart the inaccuracies I stated in a legitimate effort to help me better my ACTUAL idea. A few people have do so thus far and I have openly and wholeheartedly thanked them for the REAL help. But that would have required you to really fall in sync with my idea. That's a skill someone like yourself has a hard time exorcising. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say (with out looking into your profile until after I post this) that you're a chronic “de-bunker”. Immediately upon reading much of what you find here on this site you are filled with an overwhelming need to pick it apart - to flex your flabby intellectual prowess in an attempt to show superiority (your ego at work). If this was indeed all a miss-communication then I await your admission of the role you took in propagating the break down.

I certainly hope you don't use this approach at work for if you do I fear for the safety of those around you.

reply to post by Philodemus



first of all anytime someone mentions god/God you immediately dismiss them as ignoramus, thats good for you, you can continue doing that if you like....

second of all your thread is about viewing the phenomenon of time being equal or similar to what humans attribute to the actions of "god" .... and then you wish to edit and narrow down everyones responses to fit to your preconceived ideas of "time" and "god"...

third of all it hardly seems like you were searching for a critical dissection and discussion of your idea "god is time"
more like you were looking for a pat on the back and/or a JO...

fourth of all most people who have been interested in philosophy of any kind have had similar concepts thought up when they were 12..


fifth of all www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ImaFungi


Thank you Ima. In all seriousness, thank you. I appreciate the way you called me out. It was to the point and an accurate assessment of the way I've behaved. In the future I will attempt to conduct myself with more candour and reserve. This was not the way I intended to debut on this site. I got wrapped up in my pride.

I apologize for getting side tracked and providing you with a juvenile topic.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Time is mind and mind is not God.
God is timeless, eternal.
Mind and time is an appearance.
God is the seer and knower of all things, including time and mind.

God is Everything so to say She is kNot Mind, is like saying you're kNot your Mind, although, in your case, there may be an exception.

Ribbit

reply to post by Philodemus


you know i just said the exaggerated bit about the idea being juvenile to hurt that pride...very honestly your opening post was beautifully written and on point with accuracy, well thought out and absolutely great! being that we are all human beings, every single thing one of us can experience,feel or think is relevant to our minds and lives, past present and future. we are all traveling on the same boat.. we can all relate for we all understand what it is like being a human..

reply to post by Philodemus

Secondly, I would like to point out that I do not believe in a god as an actual being.

Interesting that you didn't capitalize God - in the personal sense. This is because you believe in the "God of Plato" and of the "philosophers". Which is a perfectly impersonal God. A god which conveniently fits their standards and assumptions of what God should be, and not what God may be.

What a conundrum for them, as they write books of esoteric philosophy in an attempt to disprove the God of the Jews, which only incidentally, is worshiped by Christians, or lay Christians, to be precise..(According to the Valentinian school of Gnosis, a system probably followed by the ecclesiastical arm of Christendom, the 'demiurge' or 'personal God' worshiped by the masses, is only for the ignorant, or those who havnt yet learned of the inner metaphysical doctrine. Thus, within Christianity, there is worship of the 'false God', which no pope or bishop or initiated priest pays any real deference to, and the 'father', which 'transcends' the God of the Jews, which is the real object, or subject, of their piety. )

So, to be exact, and entirely within the realm of fact, there is no 'Judeo-christian' God (or theology, for that matter). There is only the God of Israel, worshiped by the Jews, in the way the God of Israel prescribed, and the God of Christianity, which happens to be the same 'philosophic' God worshiped the world over, from the pagan east to Islam.

Not that the Kabbalah doesn't speak of the philosophic God. Anybody acquainted with Hebrew and the hermeneutics of Torah knows that the entire 5 books of Moses is a book of metaphysics. Genesis, which is called 'Bere#h in Hebrew, broaches on an almost entirely metaphysical level. Exodus, called shemoth in Hebrew (Names), ventures more into the theological. In this book the God of Israel is revealed, and the divine process of mans redemption from the world of limitation is outlined. With each subsequent book, the Hebraic doctrine becomes more and more particularized, and less and less understood, or relevant, to non - Jews.

In terms of a pure philosophy, the Kabbalah of the Ari (Isaac Luria) remarks on the same depths that other esoteric philosophies speak of; but perhaps, that of Ari is more explicit and less allegorical than it predecessors.

Anyways, I will not debate whether or not God is time, which is an obscene concept to me..To think that you could reduce God to a mere archetype! My God, which is the God taught by the Jewish tradition, is both immanent (personal) and transcendent (philosophical), which is akin to the Sufi doctrine in some ways. He is Elohim, which is the totality of all of creation; not merely physical creation (Hateva, nature, which has the same numerical value as Elohim = 86) but all levels of metaphysical existence. YHVH, the uniquely "Jewish" God, is the content that is meant to fill the vacuum of the name of Elohim. In the traditional Israelite expression of faith "Shema Yisrael, YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH Echad", it is explained that the name YHVH, the personal God, the God which relates with man in dualistic terms, in this world he created for this precise purpose, is completely identical with the name Elohim. The metaphysical, and philosophical explanation of the gradations of worlds and levels of existence, is by itself devoid of moral direction. Theology fills that void. The name YHVH, the God of Israel, created this physical realm not to 'torment man' as Gnostics believe, or suckle energy from man, or exists as some cosmic reflection of mans own ego(the theories are endless which try to explain away the Jewish God) but IS God, the infinite being, which takes on a finite archetypal form in the same way that man exists as a finite and individualized unit, as a means to establish a one-on-one relationship with man. Yes, man is meant to know that God is beyond all description, the infinite Ein Sof, or Al Hoq (truth, in arabic). But in addition to this understanding, paradoxically, God wants man to abide by a particular moral code. This moral code is mans own 'creation', which is the unformed and chaotic exteriority of the social realm, which he completes by perfecting it through his own discrimination and particularization, in choice, of choosing the good and rejecting the evil. And so, the positive is integrated and the negative discarded (in accord with their fundamental natures). Through this action, society is completed. The veiling of the One, YHVH, which means 'being' and refers to all levels of existence, is designed to keep the other, separated and concealed from multiple. The ONE is recalled and brought down to exist WITH man, but not overwhelm him, and obliterate the individual units i.e. diversity, within created reality itself. We know where such totalitarian thinking leads.

I completely, with every ounce of my being, reject the philosophical ALL which surmounts all distinction. Judaism is entirely different. The God of the Jews is behind the veil, concealed from mortal eyes. This is not because man is not able to experience the infinite - which of course is possible, but because the infinite is eternally closed off to mans prying eyes. The creator is not divorced from reality, and the infinite is not different or other from the created. Being and non-being are not different. They are one and united.

As for the time thing. It is interesting that the Midrash remarks that the Rabbis who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek deliberately translated the first word of the Torah "Bere#" as, "with wisdom", to avoid the predictable pagan interpretation that bere#h, which literally means 'in the beginning' was the name of a god; which would parallel their own myths, i.e. Cronus of Greek myth.

It is understood as well in Jewish esotericism that Bere#h is an archetype that provides the conditions for the subsequent creations; in other words, it is within time that creation unfolds. Not 'time' as we know it, but time in a sequential sense i.e. of causation. Distinction implies time, and so the Torah starts of with the word "Bere#h". The first letter, the Bet, being equivalent to 2, again implying that creation, or a discussion of the metaphysical, is an inherently dualistic process. The word Bere#h can also be read "in the first", which would mean, in the primordial homogeneity of the first cause, creation (multiplicity) takes place.