The Sitchin - Catholic Problem

reply to post by undo

Hey I can respect that but the OP was about christians and atheists clinging to their dogma based on the popular versions of the bible/history. At least that is how I understood it.

So if you strip it down to the truth, in the case of Noah, you get "There was a big flood and someone survived to tell the tale". Take away the cleansing of the earth and the importance of repopulating afterwards and it's really a non event.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by undo

 

Hey I can respect that but the OP was about christians and atheists clinging to their dogma based on the popular versions of the bible/history. At least that is how I understood it.

So if you strip it down to the truth, in the case of Noah, you get "There was a big flood and someone survived to tell the tale". Take away the cleansing of the earth and the importance of repopulating afterwards and it's really a non event.

it's important for the surviving sumerians, because their family tree is what the bible traces. from the adam to jesus. that's what it's all about. ever see the movie, ENEMY MINE?

watch this.
Enemy Mine, Davich reciting Zamus' Forefathers

Originally posted by undo
it's important for the surviving sumerians, because their family tree is what the bible traces. from the adam to jesus. that's what it's all about.

What does that mean to the rest of humanity? In the general scheme of things it isn't important at all.

Going back to the christian/atheist clash in the OP, if the most important part is that a long time ago there were massive floods in certain parts of the world then I think atheists can accept that. The problem comes when they are expected to also take the rest (altered or not) as literal truth.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by undo
it's important for the surviving sumerians, because their family tree is what the bible traces. from the adam to jesus. that's what it's all about.

What does that mean to the rest of humanity? In the general scheme of things it isn't important at all.

Going back to the christian/atheist clash in the OP, if the most important part is that a long time ago there were massive floods in certain parts of the world then I think atheists can accept that. The problem comes when they are expected to also take the rest (altered or not) as literal truth.

this isn't a clash of just atheists and christians. it's a pandemic on all sides because most people, even christians, have the same kind of interest level that you do. they accept whatever they were taught, and never bother to make account of it, for themselves, as a result, when asked hard questions, they have no answers and end up quoting sunday school manuals to defend it. the verses may even be in there, but they are listed in the manual with a spin on them, a spin likely put on them initially, a very long time ago.

that kind of scholarship is what lead to the enlightenment scholars thinking the ancient greeks couldn't write and therefore their texts were bunk. turned out the scholars were wrong but that error was never corrected as it lead to almost of all of ancient history being ruled fairy tales and removed from historical consideration. to this day, they teach from critical works inspired by 300 year old mistakes.

reply to post by undo


But it still doesn't give it any importance outside of interested circles. It's pandemic because it is mostly irrelevent to peoples day to day affairs. Sunday school answers or thouroughly investigated answers don't make a difference. What does getting the answer right do for humanity?

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by undo

 

But it still doesn't give it any importance outside of interested circles. It's pandemic because it is mostly irrelevent to peoples day to day affairs. Sunday school answers or thouroughly investigated answers don't make a difference. What does getting the answer right do for humanity?

well for one, it stops people from thinking the guy over yonder should be removed from the planet because ________ fill in the blank for whatever side you're on. it stops people from acting on what they think about removing other people from the planet because of ____________ fill in the blank. it provides a more solid base for learning what is actually going on and what to do about it in a loving way and not as the result of not actually knowing what it says and means. and it lessens the chances of being taken advantage due to the fact you don't actually know what is going on, and are therefore easily manipulated, for whatever reason.

there have been some outrageous human tragedies over the millenia that were completely avoidable but because the people didn't know, they were unprepared, and the rest is a sad history of death and pain and
cruelty of unimaginable proportions.

Originally posted by undo
well for one, it stops people from thinking the guy over yonder should be removed from the planet because ________ fill in the blank for whatever side you're on. it stops people from acting on what they think about removing other people from the planet because of ____________ fill in the blank.

No it doesn't. The very keeping and reverence of family lineage is usually the reason for those things.

it provides a more solid base for learning what is actually going on and what to do about it in a loving way and not as the result of not actually knowing what it says and means. and it lessens the chances of being taken advantage due to the fact you don't actually know what is going on, and are therefore easily manipulated, for whatever reason.

You don't need the bible as a base to learn what is going on. Atheists don't believe the bible so even with all it's mistakes it isn't going to be used to take advantage of them.

there have been some outrageous human tragedies over the millenia that were completely avoidable but because the people didn't know, they were unprepared, and the rest is a sad history of death and pain and
cruelty of unimaginable proportions.

Completely avoidable? What was it that the people didn't know? This is an honest question.

reply to post by daskakik


well let's start with the idea that there are some people that are just inherently better than everyone else. the only way this could be scientifically true is if it could be proven that they were superior physically or mentally or in some other useful way, and even then the argument would be whether their particular type of superior performance was any more or less important than someone else's. this has lots of applications at the atheist level, since it deals with facts and figures and survival of the fittest scenarios.

for example, let's say some people are naturally more inclined to leadership positions because they are more sly and ruthless than their fellows. this makes them better at surviving because they are adept at being cruel where necessary and beneficial, yet somehow manage to survive any resultant backlashes by lying thru their teeth. ultimate survivors, in other words. these traits, unfortunately, could be applied to some species of animals which doesn't account for much more than pre-programmed behavior.

notice i said pre-programmed? there's a reason why that's important and it's all in the bible.

reply to post by undo


But instead of pointing me to the bible why don't you just say it. I think that AAT or whatever you want to call it can stand on it's own. Make a clean break from the bible. It isn't necesary unless your trying to convince christians.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by undo

 

But instead of pointing me to the bible why don't you just say it. I think that AAT or whatever you want to call it can stand on it's own. Make a clean break from the bible. It isn't necesary unless your trying to convince christians.

the entities responsible for the programming are not gone. they didn't vanish. that's part of what we need to know as human beings.

Originally posted by undo
the entities responsible for the programming are not gone. they didn't vanish. that's part of what we need to know as human beings.

But you don't have to quote scripture to get this info out there. I think it would be alot more efficient to provide the idea in a secular form that way there are less religous barriers to overcome. I mean you believe that all humans should know about this but giving it a christian spin is bound to immediatly cause a large segment of the worlds population to just shut it out.

I think the bible is very important. It is

1. A historical text

2. A moral guide

3. A source of wisdoms past down for many generations.

To completely write it off is insane as well. Its truth should be revealed. It should be completely Re-Translated based on that unbiased truth and re taught with its original meaning and EXACT translation intact.

I argue a mechanical translation by qualified linguists. They should be charged with both an OT and NT translation into all languages from its ORIGINAL form.

The big deal is that by changing the overall message, people will realize that a large institution is not necessary to dictate spiritual growth according to any system. True spirituality is independent of all things man made. The church and its power would never have existed.

Free thought takes many forms, but its design is always based off life. The message when stripped of nonsense and filled with actual meaning and understanding of intent, is a message of self liberation. IMO

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by undo
the entities responsible for the programming are not gone. they didn't vanish. that's part of what we need to know as human beings.

But you don't have to quote scripture to get this info out there. I think it would be alot more efficient to provide the idea in a secular form that way there are less religous barriers to overcome. I mean you believe that all humans should know about this but giving it a christian spin is bound to immediatly cause a large segment of the worlds population to just shut it out.

that's the source of my information going back that many years so yeah, i'd need to. in fact, without it, i wouldn't know even a smidgen of what i know now, about ancient history.

Originally posted by casenately
I think the bible is very important.

I think that is the problem right ther because it really isn't. What wisdom does it contain? I see this said many times but what is in it that makes it so important.

reply to post by undo


It's a personal thing. Isn't the freedom of the human race more important than you paying homage to the book that started your journey?

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by undo

 

It's a personal thing. Isn't the freedom of the human race more important than you paying homage to the book that started your journey?

what's freedom got to do with my studies? odd question. are you saying people aren't free if they read the bible and pray?

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by undo

 

It's a personal thing. Isn't the freedom of the human race more important than you paying homage to the book that started your journey?

what's freedom got to do with my studies? odd question. are you saying people aren't free if they read the bible and pray?

the entities responsible for the programming are not gone. they didn't vanish. that's part of what we need to know as human beings.

Why are they still here and what does that mean for humanity?

Why are they still here and what does that mean for humanity?

reply to post by daskakik


according to revelation it seems it means quite a few things, most of them seemingly good but that's towards the end of the book. just based on my own studies, it sounds like we become an intergalactic and possibly interdimensional species, with self-repairing bodies. it also sounds as if we will be employed to help resolve intergalactic and galactic disputes between other races on other planets, but i'm not entirely sure how that will happen. i'm also fairly convinced that one of the things we'll be doing is rescuing races on other planets that have been enslaved as a result of some intergalactic law that forbid any of the existing races from interfering, but it doesn't apply to us because we didn't exist when the problem started and when the law was created.

some of that, of course, is based on further extrapolation of what various passages mean.

reply to post by undo


Hey Undo, awesome thread and I greatly admire your knowledge and understanding! just wondering about how you vision a few things...

Do you believe there is the prime creator, the highest of highs GOD, creator of the universe.... and that all creation is just a play, or an effect on that, meaning the "angels" which mingled with humans are a lowly fractal form of god, as the unmingled creatures of the natural earth are also a lower fractal form of the universe(god) ?

or do you think all life on earth was created by the angels?

or you believe the angels and what they did, is the same as if human intelligence naturally arose on this planet to a high scientific level, traveled to another planet and as lowly gods angels, mingled with another natural creation of gods?

i am really trying to picture what you picture,, and alot of what you say i understand to be quite on track, but some of your posts conclusions i do not know are 100 percent acurate, no offense, but I want to be very cautious and sure when attempting to envision truth.

to answer that, i would have to point out the role of wormholes in the creation of matter and the
repeating occurences in which jehovah shows up in a whirlwind, which i think is a wormhole. i think the super massive black holes in the universe, created the material universe and became synonmous with the creator as an individual sentient being, because it was the method of creation and could be said to be "the creator" (like tiamat, the wormhole is deified).

jehovah appears to be enlil, enki and anu. they each played a role in the creation of life on this planet and elsewhere, so i would go with yes, there's a supreme creator, and that the supreme creator has company of other creators, and the mechanism used to create are wormholes. beyond that, there's not much information.