A few questions for those who believe that UFO's are manned by interstellar fairing aliens.

Consider this- just 100 years ago humans main mode of transportation was a horse and cutting edge travel was the just budding airplane and cross country trains.

Now we can hop on a plane a be any where in the word in just hours..We've been to the moon. We've sent vehicles to other planets..

As we learn to master gravity dont you think we will pick up a few tricks to master inertia?

In 1879 the telephone was invented.. almost 100 years later in 1973 the first portable cell phone was invented..
Today our high-schoolers calculators have more memory than the first space shuttle..
Cell phones that fit in our pocket can complete tasks that a large household desktop could have dreamed of doing in 1997. We can have a face to face conversation live with somebody across the planet from a device that fits in our pocket!

If we showed somebody from 300 years our technology today they would probably consider us to be capable of unnatural/godlike feats

Consider where we are and where we will be in 100 years..

Now the question on why would they care enough to spy on us?
Why do we study wildlife? Why do our scientists spend vast amounts of resources to study frog species in the amazon? Why do college students study sociology in both modern and third world countries?

Also, your third question answers your first question.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian


The relativistic kinematics equations? Really?
Their colleagues and friends/family they knew will most likely be long dead? Assuming they have friends, family and colleagues and that they even die!!!!

Your logic only works if your assumptions are true. If your first assumtion fails, the whole argument fails.

So, you admit that these beings are not organic, living creatures but mechanical ones? If so, this helps reinforce my point.

Originally posted by wigitMaybe they've been settled here with us for a long time? Maybe they were here before us?

Possibly, but how we come we have yet to find them? It it possible and even probable that we are just an ant-hill that lives on the edge of an interstellar high way, but you don't see humans getting out of their cars and randomly observing anthills now, do you?

Originally posted by wigitPardon my cheek but why did you ask such a daft question in the first place then?

Most UFO/alien "believers" don't think the visiting spacemen came all the way from zeta wotsit to stick a bb up our noses and then fly all the way back home.

That has been my experience with those of the UFO community. Aliens don't obey any laws of physics, and can soar through hyperspace with ships equipped with anti-gravity machinery, but yet don't have anything better to do with their time but spy on the primitive earthlings.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculianSo if they aren't spying on us?

What else could they possibly be doing?

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by wigitPardon my cheek but why did you ask such a daft question in the first place then?

Most UFO/alien "believers" don't think the visiting spacemen came all the way from zeta wotsit to stick a bb up our noses and then fly all the way back home.

That has been my experience with those of the UFO community. Aliens don't obey any laws of physics, and can soar through hyperspace with ships equipped with anti-gravity machinery, but yet don't have anything better to do with their time but spy on the primitive earthlings.

If you're studying physics then you know the importance of curiosity. The smarter people get the more curious they are about everything - look at Richard Feynman. After an alien civilization masters the basic laws of physics (assuming there is ever an end to those discoveries) then those aliens would be curious about all the different biological and social organisms that are possible. Earth might be the toddler civilization in the universe and all the adult civilizations are taking baby pictures because they know we will grow up quickly and they want to study this transition in detail.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by ZetaRediculianSo if they aren't spying on us?

What else could they possibly be doing?

Your saying its all alien species it doesnt have to be does it. And if it is they could be taking samples of earth just like we do from other planets. Say we find a planet with living creatures on it, to look at they dont look as advanced as us or harmfull, Or maybe they do, Either way do we go straight for contact or do we take some samples, Maybe let a few people see our ship just so they can slowly but surely come to terms with there being other lifeforms without causing mass panic ect. After all they may have come across other planets and delved right in and caused an uproar,? maybe they are so purplexed to see us they dont know that we are capable of noticing them and interacting ect, I know id prefair to learn before getting stuck in because otherwise things can go very wrong.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

The problem I have with this "anti-gravity" concept is that it is proposed by people who don't even understand the advanced mathematics of gravity. Much of gravity remains a mystery to even the top mathematical and theoretical physicists. Hell, all I even know about gravity thus far is what I've learned in my undergraduate general relativity and applied topology classes, and that's not much[/qute]

You should expand your horizons,,,

Dipolar Graviotmagnetic fields: Not quite antigravity, but, it seems a source of artificial gravity and, more importantly, Inertial Frame dragging: www.hpcc-space.de...

Zero point energy: Some conversion techniques yield an effect that seems to cancel mass: www.calphysics.org...

These two devices will yield a craft not unlike today's UFO reports. If you configure the dipolar equipment correctly you can build an FTL craft, and fit all of the system into the space shuttle. Which basically means that you T. Humans could build a FTL ship NOW! And, travel anywhere you want. It is, however, by FTL standards, rather slow, but it would take you to Sirius in only a few months (8 ly).

Ah, Yes. Some are manned by them. We are in an inter-galactic war.

Here are a few of my quick thoughts on this subject.

The only mineral dense enough to create a huge magnetic field, that surrounds a starship, would be a small substance taken from an exploded Black Hole; and refined into the bottom plate of a flying saucer. It should be capable of switching and mixing polarities at will, when an electric current is run thru it; to give it anti-grav potential.

The saucer is capable of going many times the speed of light, buy using the black hole plates thirst for light photon's that are never at rest. "Each photon's high speed endows it with an 'equivalent' mass that is nowhere near zero."

The starship sucks in the light photon's, gives them an electric charge, and spews them out of the revolving thruster, [90 degree turns, instant stops and starts,] increasing speed exponentially --- squared ---- to many times the speed of light.



Cheers,

Erno86

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


Who's to say they aren't?

Or maybe they're jumping through a wormhole to get here instantaneously.

Besides, you know nothing of the alien lifestyle. Perhaps the aliens age very differently then us, perhaps a thousand years to us is one year to them? It may sound like science fiction, but we as a species have to realize that everything in the universe isn't going to fit exactly into our ideas about things. We search for life only on planets with liquid water and the right atmosphere.

We have a database of ONE planet. With ONE intellegent species on it. We live on a planet with liquid water and oxygene. How does knowing this justify assuming that every other species in the universe must live on a similar planet?

Who knows, maybe the aliens age differently.
We simply can't count out any possibilities because we know so little about the aliens.

It does seem improbable that extraterrestrial entities stumbled across Earth in the past century. Assuming that we are being accosted by such entities it seems more probable that they have been observing Earth for a much longer period of time

Perhaps they have a more active role to play now than during previous eras or perhaps increasingly more people have more sophisticated cameras and produce ever more substantial evidence resulting in the field of ufology

I do concur with the original poster in that any such entities would most likely be an optimal hybrid of machine and organism because outer space is extremely inhospitable for large biological lifeforms like human beings

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by ZetaRediculianSo if they aren't spying on us?

What else could they possibly be doing?

Any number of things. It is incredibly naive to insist that is the only thing they must be doing. They may not even be paying any attention to us at all! It's egotistical to assume we are the reason they are here.

I'm afraid your points aren't holding up there very well, bud. They have been sufficiently answered should you care to pay attention to the replies.

Certainly, one thing to remember is that just because we don't know how a particular thing can be accomplished doesn't mean that it can't. It just means that we don't know.

Or current limited understanding of the physics of reality is still rooted in three (or four) dimensional Newtonian mechanics, with explanations based on little particles bouncing off each other and exchanging energy. We continue to work on and improve our theories, but it takes time. Aliens with a couple billion years head start on us might have it all figured out.

Don't know. Nothing wrong with admitting it.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


Your asking us to explain how alien technology works??? Whose the whacko now?

Originally posted by andersensrmYour asking us to explain how alien technology works??? Whose the whacko now?

The burden of proof lies on you, not scientists. If I came up to you randomly while talking on your phone and I claim the phone is mine and make some very poor excuses, would that truly convince you that it is indeed mine? Are you that easy to convince?

the questions you have asked are completly pointless
if they are visiting and thats a big if
they would have to be so far ahead of us technology wise,that we would call them gods
just imagine how far us humans have come then add a thousand more years to that
im pretty sure by then we will have gone far beyond what any of us right now can imagine
using are technology as a basis against an unknowns technology is a waste of time

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

You are absolutely correct.

The problem with UFOers is that they completely skip the part on how difficult it is to travel thru space: Hostile space.

And there are 3 ways needed to travel in space- Infinite space:

*obtaining light speed or another form of warp speed for short distances.

*having the ability to use worm-holes(one's personal event horizon) for long distances.

*the ability to stop aging. Becoming immortal.


These three points are universal ,extremely vital for space travel: Meaning it doesn't matter what you are or where you come from . Space is space and its the same everywhere. It is a vicious hostile environment filled gravity and radiation. Meaning "One" or "it" must be able to perform these three points ,especially the 3rd point, if its going to attempt to travel,not orbit, space itself.

Whoever or whatever figures out how to perform these three points will certainly have a God complex. Think of it(just like) how we act by accidentally killing an ant . You're indifferent,no emotion. Well if we are unfortunate and happen to be the "host" planet then our visitors will certainly feel indifferent to us "Ants".


Traveling in space is so dam difficult you can certainly say (for now),its impossible to travel in space. If a radio single diminishes in space ,how one even thinks they would be even successful in space is a joke.


But here we have billions of people blindly believing there is green little dudes or plasma blobs taxing our planet.???
With no viable evidence, at all.
Pure faith and hope.

Ufoers are the perfect example(like christians) of a community totally abandoning there only god given gift : LOGIC.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


There's an excellent book answering those questions, from 70s. Paul R Hill's Unconventional Flying Objects: Scientific analysis.

Bought it myself from amazon, and was totally worth it. Clear, precise engineering logic. No-nonsense reading. Totally recommend, if you really want to get an engineering analysis and answers to those questions.

reply to post by dilly1


Your reply is a perfect example of how successful disinformation and brainwashing has been when it comes to space travel and the decades of military and government ufo debunking..

And you used the thread to announce your negative feelings about Christians , another fail..


All the problems about space travel in the OP have been discussed by many world class physicists for quite some time now, and they aren't really a problem at all as a little bit of reading would show you...

It is all about using gravitational or magnetic forces to lower your inertia to zero, or near zero.... Study that idea and you should understand how simple long distance space travel could be.. (if you have the hardware and knowhow)...