A few questions for those who believe that UFO's are manned by interstellar fairing aliens.

reply to post by LazloFarnsworth

But who says they NEED propulsion and machinery...if they dont USE them? Or if they "travel" in ways we dont understand?

Who says they need propulsion systems, and machines? Well ... I do, and so does simple logic.

The species currently visiting Earth are not more than 400 - 700 years more advanced than Earth. So they would kind of need those things. And there are a few that are even less advanced, watching from afar.

The methods that are currently used for "travel" seem to fairly well understood by Terrestrial science. At least the papers I've read indicate that. T. Humans are far more advanced, in ALL areas than you give yourselves credit for. You are not perfect, but, nobody is Even the most advanced (those millions of years ahead of you) have aspects that are quite primative. That is kind of the nature of any species that have not ascended. And, those who have ascended do not, and, will not interact with those of us who have not.

Etharzi od Oma

reply to post by dilly1


Wanted to address your 3 points.

And there are 3 ways needed to travel in space- Infinite space:

*obtaining light speed or another form of warp speed for short distances.

*having the ability to use worm-holes(one's personal event horizon) for long distances.

*the ability to stop aging. Becoming immortal.

Light speed is a difficult thing to acheive, and certainly beyond current Terrestrial technology, but, it is not required IF some form of warp system can be used. Warp drives can be done with relatively primative mechanical devices. They are called "frame draggers"...do an internet search.

Wormholes require vast amounts of energy. Ships capable of this generate the energy of small stars to "build"a wormhole. Terrestrial science seems to have a pretty fair handle on most of that, but lack the ability to generate energy at those levels, but, that is a temporary condition.

Immortality: Nice fantasy, but, it proves not only more difficult than the physics of travel, but, it is very undesirable. Any intelligent, thinking being will get very jaded and bored after only a few 1000 years. And, those who do start down that road, live to regret it. I mean, think about it! Just what do you do when you have done everything and seen everything?

etharzi od Oma

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

1. It was once seriously theorized that going faster than 60 mph would probably kill a human too. Science and the technology of the combustion engine soon proved that theory wrong. But it took the tech to catch up in order to test the theory. Never write anything off too quickly. Einstein said that Faster Than Light travel was theoretically impossible, and science has taken that as a given for 70 years - until recently that is. Never say never.

2. How do you know that the craft witnessed on earth are not simply planetary exploration vehicles? How do you know for sure that huge craft are not sitting somewhere out in the solar system waiting for their exploration vehicles to return to 'base'? Also, can you say with any certainty that vast distances cannot be traversed in reasonably rapid fashion by some kind of advanced tech? Imagine a civilization 2, 3, or perhaps 10 thousand years ahead of us. Think of how far we have come in the last 100 years - then extrapolate. The possibilities are staggering really.

3. How do we know that they DON'T use cloaking, nanotechnology, PSI, or many other advanced tech that we can only dream of?

I really don't see how any of your arguments can even begin to disprove in any way, shape, or form the possibility of an alien civilization visiting our planet. None of your arguments seem to stand up to scrutiny IMO.

Interesting intellectual game I guess - but it's too easy to limit oneself to the scientific discoveries of our relatively young civilization. Don't limit your imagination - try to think outside the box while hanging on to basic logic is the way forward.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by dilly1
And there are 3 ways needed to travel in space- Infinite space:
*obtaining light speed or another form of warp speed for short distances.
*having the ability to use worm-holes(one's personal event horizon) for long distances.
*the ability to stop aging. Becoming immortal.

This is true if you're talking about physical matter/energy as we currently understand it, also our understanding of what it means to "travel." A bit of that matter/energy going from one "place" to another "place" in a certain amount of "time." Our current assumptions are based on our perceptions and limited definitions, and we all know how reliable those are. Questionable, to say the least.

Blue...this is more a post about these three points listed by dilly...so sorry for dragging you into it.

Dilly...your three points are...non-points.
First point...obtaining Light Speed or a form of Warp speed for short distances. One of these is a necessity in a different form...that being a need to be able to Fold Space and form a Singularity by which all points of position are the same point thus traveling without moveing. Traveling at Light Speed is too slow given the distances as well as impossible to propel a craft of matter at the speed of light. Plus...unless you want to end up as a bloody pulp against a bulkhead....you would have to gradually accelerate and gradually decelleate...this would take forever.

Second point...Use of Wormholes....unlike the Fantasy of Stargate...a Wormhole would litterally KILL YOU as you approached it's event horizon and just finding a stable one that actually went somewhere you needed to go would be like a Million times harder that hitting LOTTO without buying a ticket.

Third Point...Stop aging or become Immortal....well...it might be possible to geneticly change a person to stop the aging process...but who the hell wants to wait around that long? I loose my mind just waiting for a commercial to end during a Football Game! LOL!

I actually know a bit about the reality of E.T. and E.T. Craft and there are several types...Probes....Solar System ranging craft...but just within one solar system...and the Fold Space Craft that all the rest are housed in during engagement of a Gravitic Drive that Folds Space. Split Infinity

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by LazloFarnsworth

 

But who says they NEED propulsion and machinery...if they dont USE them? Or if they "travel" in ways we dont understand?

Who says they need propulsion systems, and machines? Well ... I do, and so does simple logic.

The ed thspecies currently visiting Earth are not more than 400 - 700 years more advancan Earth. So they would kind of need those things. And there are a few that are even less advanced, watching from afar.

The methods that are currently used for "travel" seem to fairly well understood by Terrestrial science. At least the papers I've read indicate that. T. Humans are far more advanced, in ALL areas than you give yourselves credit for. You are not perfect, but, nobody is Even the most advanced (those millions of years ahead of you) have aspects that are quite primative. That is kind of the nature of any species that have not ascended. And, those who have ascended do not, and, will not interact with those of us who have not.

Etharzi od Oma

May I ask:

How do you KNOW that the "species currently visiting Earth are not more than 400 - 700 years more advanced than Earth" exactly? Did they email you this information?

Just came by to star and flag a thread with 127 posts and one flag!

On topic...there is nothing to say UFO's are manned at all...who really knows?

Originally posted by jimbo999
May I ask:

How do you KNOW that the "species currently visiting Earth are not more than 400 - 700 years more advanced than Earth" exactly? Did they email you this information?

Earth History. There are many documents and ther ancient artifacts that speak to ET involvment on Earth.
Zeta history ... Zeta's, as they are called here are one of the civilizations visiting.
Pleiadian History. The so-called Pleiadians are another civilization that currently visits Earth.

Etharzi od Oma

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


I agree and they came here in a disc and crashed for no reason? that is just a load of....

Originally posted by jerryznv
Just came by to star and flag a thread with 127 posts and one flag!

On topic...there is nothing to say UFO's are manned at all...who really knows?

Well I know as a 100% verifiable fact that some UFO's...unidentified flying objects are and have been definitly MANNED as in flown by Humans.

As far as E.T. CRAFT...well...they are not MANNED...but some are piloted and some are remote. I also know this to be a 100% reality although I cannot provide verification.

I can understand your reaction to this thread with the mushroom cloud and all as there are just too many people claiming to be abductees or Human/Alien Hybrids...and this only makes the Agencies job all too easy.

But Although you don't know me...and have no reason to believe me...I will suggest that if there is any one statement on this board that you may want to take a strangers words on....my statements about E.T. being a reality...would definitly be a good choice. Split Infinity

reply to post by dilly1

Listen Mr. Rookie sir....I wasnt SPEAKING to you NOR your post. I said the "original thread post". Are you stupid or something? Please. Read my post.

Comprehending comes with age...you'll see. Cheers

reply to post by AnthraAndromda

You address and alude to everything youve read on and about (on Earth by Earthlings...therefore only a terrestrial interpretation). Everything you speak of is a "earthly" interpretation using the only references you know or or can guess-timate. That doesnt give our star visitors much credit. My point.

Lights, machines..and need to be mechanically PROPULSED thru the cosmos? Im assuming they are a bit farther along in their science than us if they are visting us...and we CANT be visiting them...yet.

And Im not the only one here I see by the posts that think you are giving them far less credit than they deserve.
And again...you are only using the references you know of...and can understand...and thats not logical. Only here on Earth. And they are probably laughing at us right now.

Thanks

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by dilly1

 

Wanted to address your 3 points.

And there are 3 ways needed to travel in space- Infinite space:

*obtaining light speed or another form of warp speed for short distances.

*having the ability to use worm-holes(one's personal event horizon) for long distances.

*the ability to stop aging. Becoming immortal.

Light speed is a difficult thing to acheive, and certainly beyond current Terrestrial technology, but, it is not required IF some form of warp system can be used. Warp drives can be done with relatively primative mechanical devices. They are called "frame draggers"...do an internet search.

Wormholes require vast amounts of energy. Ships capable of this generate the energy of small stars to "build"a wormhole. Terrestrial science seems to have a pretty fair handle on most of that, but lack the ability to generate energy at those levels, but, that is a temporary condition.

Immortality: Nice fantasy, but, it proves not only more difficult than the physics of travel, but, it is very undesirable. Any intelligent, thinking being will get very jaded and bored after only a few 1000 years. And, those who do start down that road, live to regret it. I mean, think about it! Just what do you do when you have done everything and seen everything?

etharzi od Oma

edit on 14-1-2012 by AnthraAndromda because: (no reason given)

I say achieving light speed for short travels. Yes light speed is impossible to achieve. Which is my point. Your not understanding my under-lining point.

Warp speed cannot be done easily and its not primitive. Its a theory , ,, just like "frame draggers"... You should look it up read about it slowly. So it sinks in.

Again!!!! Wormholes is impossible to control and open. Back to my under-lining point. Wow

Terrestrial science is primitive. Nothing fair in handling anything in space.
Wow

Immortality is not some fantasy ploy. It is a requirement to be able to explore infinite space. Which is impossible to achieve!!!!! Again my under-lining point.

How the hell does some being that achieves immortality will get bored after 1000years.??? Your just inventing stuff. Its not some worry of not being entertained. It about needing to stop(or almost stop completely) aging so you can be successful traveling in an infinite space.

You(we, beings) can't do everything!!! Space is infinite. Are you serious. Please learn about "hostile space" ... Its clearly you know very little,just theories, about space.


My three points are to show everyone that believing aliens visiting earth constantly is a joke. Getting here is too hard. And if achieved we are all screwed. You do not want some being achieving the 3 points ,to suddenly land on mother earth. Trust me you don't.


"Live to regret it"??? Lol!!!

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda

This statement is really rich!

Ya know I talk of Physics from time to time, yet, I'm not a Physicist. I talk about biology, but I'm not a Biologist. But, I have had a 40 year professional carrer as an Electrical/Sftware Engineer (actually more software). In the time since I got my two masters degrees I have learned far more than is taught in schools, even today. Ya see, thats the thing One can NEVER stop learning. Course as a software engineer I found that I had to know more than just a litte about nearly everything ... One never knows the requiremets of the next project.This appears to be something you haven't done, you have quite a bit of catching-up to do.

I never alluded that one must be an expert to speak on a topic, no. But, the way some of these posters carry themselves by disregarding accepted scientific fact as if they understand the physics 100% in order to dismiss them is what comes off as both ignorant and arrogant.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromdaMaxwell's equations: Incomplete as they are currently taught. When I learned this, I was seriously pissed, it meant that my Electrical education was incomplete.

What school did you attend? I'm only a second year student, and we pretty much have an elementary understanding of Maxwell's 8 equations that are taught in our multivariable calculus class. Of course, the total implications of the equations would most likely be emphasized in a physics curriculum rather than an engineering one, and may be much more rigorous in graduate school.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromdaWhile c is a constant (via convention only), it is not anymore a speed limit than the speed of sound was in 1930.The reality is that there is no speed limit. Even your scientists have found particles that travel faster than light. Heck, under the right conditions even photons have been known to exceed this velocity.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Physicists have known much longer before 1930 that there were many phenomena in the natural world that easily exceeded the speed of sound. Also, the speed of sound is dependent upon the properties of the medium it propagates through. For this reason, no serious scientist could have ever come to the conclusion that the sound barrier is a universal speed limit. If you are talking about the neutrino experiment, the uncertainty of that experiment is significant. Many of the physicists who participated in the experiment refuse to believe the results and wanted their names to not be added to the publication. Until other laboratories can confirm by experimentation, light will remain the universal speed limit.

You do realize that photons are a property of light?

Originally posted by AnthraAndromdaAlso, time dilation is a mis-perception. Those effects are caused by frame-dragging...so any of those effects you can throw away .. ya need to start over on that.

Wow, you speak with such authority and have probably not even done a time dilation calculation before.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromdaFinally, if the effects of micrometors is as you indicate, just how is that ISS is still there and usable?

Maybe because micrometeorites are more common in deep space rather than our solar system? Despite that, the ISS's major concerns are micrometeorites as these things are quite a nuisance: www.universetoday.com...

Originally posted by AnthraAndromdaNo, I'm afraid that you T. Humans have, RIGHT NOW, all the science and technology for FTL, even if primative. You need to stop argueing over all the petty crap, and get on with it. You should also drop the psudo-science and rely on the real thing.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Surprising how an engineer as experienced as you could make such outlandish claims without any form of evidence.

Originally posted by LazloFarnsworth
reply to post by dilly1

 

Listen Mr. Rookie sir....I wasnt SPEAKING to you NOR your post. I said the "original thread post". Are you stupid or something? Please. Read my post.

Comprehending comes with age...you'll see. Cheers

Lol!!!

The OP's last post was back on page 2. You really think posting your delusion on page 6 is going to get a response from the OP? Lol!!

Calling all rookies: if you want to inform the OP on your opinion try "quoting" or "post reply"

I basically debunked your first post and you only focus on me calling you stupid. Says a lot .


I wasn't the only one who responded to your rookie post..... Nothing else you want to discuss ?Or being stupid too much for you too handle.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian


The relativistic kinematics equations? Really?
Their colleagues and friends/family they knew will most likely be long dead? Assuming they have friends, family and colleagues and that they even die!!!!

Your logic only works if your assumptions are true. If your first assumtion fails, the whole argument fails.

So, you admit that these beings are not organic, living creatures but mechanical ones? If so, this helps reinforce my point.

I fully admit that mechanical beings from across the galaxy have come here to spy on us based on the flawless logic presented here.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by ZetaRediculianSo if they aren't spying on us?

What else could they possibly be doing?

they could be doing absolutely nothing and not really caring a thing about us.

Personally, I believe that if there are "aliens" and "UFOs" that they are dimensional and not simply from another galaxy. I try to take the position of...what single answer explains "everything". "Everything" being aliens, ancient civilizations, 2012, the Bible, GOD, etc., etc. Again...not that I believe it...but the only thing that seems to answer "everything" is that these things would have to co-exist with us (or close to us or occasionally close to us) and appear "out of the blue". Therefore...dimensional. IMHO.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
I fully admit that mechanical beings from across the galaxy have come here to spy on us based on the flawless logic presented here.

Your admission is based on nothing but fantasy and has no basis in reality.

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
This thread is like asking a bunch of bonobos how a 767 works.

Ask us again in one million years and we might have an answer.

Bill Hicks is the man

He most certainly is. Carlin is funnier but Hicks is a prophet.

Can we start throwing feces yet?

The answers to all these questions breach the rules of what we know and what we have been taught and told, alot of which im sure most humans could not even begin to comprehend. Here my quick rundown to your qiestions. ( just my idea, no proof to back it up so please dont ask)

1-2. Think of the Universe as we know it, as a never ending place that encumbers "controlled chaos" planets, stars, etc. Now think of it as a nervous system, where the ends of nerves are at planets, suns, black holes etc. "alien" thought and for a lack of a better word sences are beyond instantanous( see how can something be quicker than instant). There crafts or incubaters are like there materialization of there projected thoughts, as they dont "build" things they grow them like we grow hair, nerves, veins.

3. They know we are here, they have felt our being here like you feel a mosquito on your foot when your wearing sandals in the summer. They do watch us and treat us like we treat animals that are inferior to us. Well a few types anyways. Humans are actually so new in space time, this is why we recive so much attention, the thousands of years humans have been around is like a thought in space time. The aliens have been around for such a greater amount of time its rather rediculous that humans could even stand a chance.