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A few questions for those who believe that UFO's are manned by interstellar fairing aliens.

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posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by dilly1
 





How do you know there are other forms of science? I think there is but no one knows.


I did use the word Forms but I actually meant Fields...

Fields of science are commonly classified along two major lines:

Natural sciences, the study of the natural phenomena;
Social sciences, the systematic study of human behavior and societies.
Natural sciences
Astronomy, the study of celestial objects and phenomena that are outside the Earth's atmosphere, e.g. stars, the cosmos, etc.
Biology, the study of life.
Ecology and Environmental science, the studies of the interrelationships of life and the environment.
Chemistry, the study of the composition, chemical reactivity, structure, and properties of matter and with the (physical and chemical) transformations that they undergo.
Earth science, the study of earth and specialties including:
Geology
Hydrology
Meteorology
Science-based or Physical Geography and Oceanography
Soil science
Physics, the study of the fundamental constituents of the universe, the forces and interactions they exert on one another, and the results produced by these forces.
The main social sciences include:

Anthropology
Communication
Cultural studies
Economics
Education
Geography
History
Linguistics
Political science
Psychology
Social policy
Sociology
Development studies

They are making great strides in all of these Fields everyday.
We can share technology and new information today, faster than we ever could before.
Every advancement in all of these fields working together sharing information... possibilities are endless.

... And in an instant what you thought before was right, was not really the case. Happens time & time again.

Think if we stopped using a flawed value system ($) and just focused on advancement for the sake of advancing...
We're then would we...
It's all perception.




edit on 13-1-2012 by Numb2itall because: Blahh




posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist
 
all physics aside question with a question how can anyone be an expert on UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS ??




posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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This thread really irks me.
We say what we can do against races that are millions of years older than us.
That is like pointing pea shooters at beings millions of years ahead of us.
No cabal can overcome them and as they are concerned, we are a done deal.
Our egos may have to drop a few notches as they have ALL the cards.
Peace to you all and let your egos behind you.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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Everyone is a walking self forgotten chariot of the gods; the Ufo is what happens to man when he ascends, he becomes the flying disc. Led astray have you, trying to find the answers through material means. The answer is biological, natural and harmonious. The further you go outside yourself, the less you will understand. Everything exists in its perfection in the human body but forgotten, Coiled in the DNA. The Ufo is unidentified for a reason. But if you're willing to look further, you will see its not an external vehicle, its a mastery of the human mind/body and soul.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Diablos
You're really wasting your time. These "believers" have got to be some of the most ignorant and arrogant people I've ever seen. They talk so chiefly on physics when they most probably failed Algebra II in high school. They expect scientists to throw out every law of physics just because they saw something that contradicts these laws. Just look at some of these answers on inertia and gravity. What next, Maxwell's equations are wrong, c is not a constant, and light is not the universal speed limit of the universe?

Is it a wonder that most scientists roll their eyes and sigh when talking to these people?


This statement is really rich!

Ya know I talk of Physics from time to time, yet, I'm not a Physicist. I talk about biology, but I'm not a Biologist. But, I have had a 40 year professional carrer as an Electrical/Sftware Engineer (actually more software). In the time since I got my two masters degrees I have learned far more than is taught in schools, even today. Ya see, thats the thing One can NEVER stop learning. Course as a software engineer I found that I had to know more than just a litte about nearly everything ... One never knows the requiremets of the next project.This appears to be something you haven't done, you have quite a bit of catching-up to do.

Although, I do see what you mean about some of the responses.

Maxwell's equations: Incomplete as they are currently taught. When I learned this, I was seriously pissed, it meant that my Electrical education was incomplete.

While c is a constant (via convention only), it is not anymore a speed limit than the speed of sound was in 1930.The reality is that there is no speed limit. Even your scientists have found particles that travel faster than light. Heck, under the right conditions even photons have been known to exceed this velocity.

Also, time dilation is a mis-perception. Those effects are caused by frame-dragging...so any of those effects you can throw away .. ya need to start over on that.

Finally, if the effects of micrometors is as you indicate, just how is that ISS is still there and usable?

No, I'm afraid that you T. Humans have, RIGHT NOW, all the science and technology for FTL, even if primative. You need to stop argueing over all the petty crap, and get on with it. You should also drop the psudo-science and rely on the real thing.

Etharzi od Oma.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by Numb2itall
reply to post by dilly1
 





Your last statement is total hope and imagination, which is fine just make sure you don't lose your logical perspective.



Ha ha, nope. My last statement comes from experience and reality.

My logical perspective is exactly what I am using.

When you have an experience (and I truly hope you do), like many of us... when you touch & smell and think your at the very point of losing your marbles, your thinking will change, and you will know that there is way more than just what your Ego is telling you.
I hope you find peace in your box.


I can't argue with someone's personal experience...But As long as you keep it personal and you don't try(and expect) to convince others your experience is a fact ;pertaining to the delusional status quo off course.

I doubt I will have an "experience" and neither would my grand children's children's.

Touch and smell????. Well, I took hydro-shrooms too ,,didn't see any aliens.

Don't we all have an ego?



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong.. but:

Air - Can be compressed
Water/liquid - Can't be compressed?

So if one was to use the water as a padding? They could survive?
Would the water crush them?.. Or should I say POP them?



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by ZardoZx

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by ZardoZx

If we showed somebody from 300 years our technology today they would probably consider us to be capable of unnatural/godlike feats

Consider where we are and where we will be in 100 years..




Uummm??? No

"No" on the mastering inertia part. Its ok to blame hollywood for you misconception of reality.

What humans have accomplished here on earth is an injustice for understanding the entails, let alone perform ,of space exploration.

What you have is hope,imagination and faith . Which is great but your setting yourself up for a big disappointment. And that disappointment will happen on your last year of your life. When You'll finally realize that we are still not even close for man to travel pass our moon. ..Use your logic to police your hope and imagination.


You think humans have come a long way ???... But we really haven't. We have been recycling known knowledge over and over. If You haven't noticed we are just part of a machine ,,a massive assembly line per'se.


I suggest you really learn about space and its hostile characteristics.




Trust me. I'm well aware of space and its "hostile characteristics. Its okay to blame your arrogance on why you need to try to demean vague statements I made reminding the OP of human progress.

Use your logic to police your condescending nature.

Everything I said had scientific merit and no where did I say "WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO COUNTERACT INERTIA" but.. I firmly believe we WILL have the ability to counteract some of the forces so 90 degree turns can be made.

also..
To say we as humans haven't made progress is absolutely the most ignorant statement ive seen in these forums. Maybe we still might be #-shows from a social and cultural stand point (your demeanor is a fine example of that) But considering I can even type this from my house and post here for the world to see is a fine example of human ingenuity... and granted our understanding of the universe is still primitive at best we are a fairly new in the "scheme of things"

and if you actually believe we are incapable of sending a man pass the moon, my friend you must be misinformed.. but sadly only you can bring yourself out of your bubble and into the 'reality' of our current situation, and for me to say anything else would be useless because you seem to have already made up your mind.



edit on 13-1-2012 by ZardoZx because: (no reason given)

You "firmly believe"?? You mean you have faith man will over come the intricacies of hostile space??? Lol!!!

Ok ,bud... Its all you


Ahhh yes the ability to communicate globally is such an accomplishment. Is that why you have faith in man to concoct some new physics to do 90 degree turns while simultaneously admitting we are still primitive ?? lol!!!!

Prove to me that I am misinformed in man being incapable of travel past the moon? Post any site, please ,,,anything , any link. I dare you



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Numb2itall
reply to post by dilly1
 





How do you know there are other forms of science? I think there is but no one knows.


I did use the word Forms but I actually meant Fields...

Fields of science are commonly classified along two major lines:

Natural sciences, the study of the natural phenomena;
Social sciences, the systematic study of human behavior and societies.
Natural sciences
Astronomy, the study of celestial objects and phenomena that are outside the Earth's atmosphere, e.g. stars, the cosmos, etc.
Biology, the study of life.
Ecology and Environmental science, the studies of the interrelationships of life and the environment.
Chemistry, the study of the composition, chemical reactivity, structure, and properties of matter and with the (physical and chemical) transformations that they undergo.
Earth science, the study of earth and specialties including:
Geology
Hydrology
Meteorology
Science-based or Physical Geography and Oceanography
Soil science
Physics, the study of the fundamental constituents of the universe, the forces and interactions they exert on one another, and the results produced by these forces.
The main social sciences include:

Anthropology
Communication
Cultural studies
Economics
Education
Geography
History
Linguistics
Political science
Psychology
Social policy
Sociology
Development studies

They are making great strides in all of these Fields everyday.
We can share technology and new information today, faster than we ever could before.
Every advancement in all of these fields working together sharing information... possibilities are endless.

... And in an instant what you thought before was right, was not really the case. Happens time & time again.

Think if we stopped using a flawed value system ($) and just focused on advancement for the sake of advancing...
We're then would we...
It's all perception.




edit on 13-1-2012 by Numb2itall because: Blahh


Thats right,,, humans should try to make great strides,,, and this proves what? You having Faith that we'll figure it out some day?

So Sharing technology gives you faith in scientists will figure out how to cope with hostile space,,some day.? Or hope for endless possibilities?

Wow!

What I think is not a fallacy its the travel requirements in space not in our planet or in the billion other earths with in space. Focus on the "space" aspect.


Your last statement is probably your first logical point you have made so far. Knew you had it in you.

Embrace logic



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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This thread is like asking a bunch of bonobos how a 767 works.

Ask us again in one million years and we might have an answer.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
This thread is like asking a bunch of bonobos how a 767 works.

Ask us again in one million years and we might have an answer.


Bill Hicks is the man



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by ionsoul
We say what we can do against races that are millions of years older than us.
That is like pointing pea shooters at beings millions of years ahead of us.


Just what makes you think your local ETs are millions of years ahead of you?

If you look back at your own history, and the history of ET/UFO's you should notice something rather important.

* The history of ancient India, and Summer speak of chemical powered flying machines. That is NOT very advanced. The visitors then were from Sirius, they would be the 2nd most advanced species to visit Eath. They were Human, and were around for a few hundred years just 6000 years ago.

* When the Zetas and the others you encounter today arrived a few hundred years ago, their aircraft were ... cheical powered. Not very advanced.

So, you see, none of these are "millions" of years more advanced. At best they got 6000 years on you, and those ET's aren't visiting any more. The others are only a few hundred years ahead, and, actually have very little on ya.

All three of these arrived in very primative ships, about on par with what you have the capability to build right now.
(you have the knowledge and technology to build primative FTL now, and with virtually "off-the-shelf" comonents.)

Etharzi od Oma

edit on 13-1-2012 by AnthraAndromda because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by dilly1
Prove to me that I am misinformed in man being incapable of travel past the moon? Post any site, please ,,,anything , any link. I dare you


Try the European Space Agency. They have a ton of stuff.

Etharzi od Oma



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda

Originally posted by dilly1
Prove to me that I am misinformed in man being incapable of travel past the moon? Post any site, please ,,,anything , any link. I dare you


Try the European Space Agency. They have a ton of stuff.

Etharzi od Oma


Mean no disrespect,,,

ESA?
Are you sure "Tons of stuff"?

There best rockets use "liquid /solid propulsion. And also dependent on the use of orbit. There budget is no more than 11billion. I'm sorry, ESA mite have ambitions to travel to other planets but they just can't now and not until they invent something completely different(star wars like) to even just travel ,not orbit, passed the moon. Anybody or any object can orbit,but traveling is the ability of the gods. We are below primitive.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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It amusing you use Earth terminology. You say "current propulsion" and "machinery" when in fact thats quite limiting and all you COULD use in your thread.

But who says they NEED propulsion and machinery...if they dont USE them? Or if they "travel" in ways we dont understand?

You really showed a lack of understanding how advanced they very well should be. Machines? Thats earthly. Proplusion? For what? Those "machines" that they may not have used in millions of years?

I dont think they need to fly around in triangles with lights at 3 corners and glowing colors while making high-speed right turns. Thats really quite primitive. But, I do understand thats the only reference you could come up with in the original tread post.

Think out of the box...triangel...orb...whatever.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by LazloFarnsworth
It amusing you use Earth terminology. You say "current propulsion" and "machinery" when in fact thats quite limiting and all you COULD use in your thread.

But who says they NEED propulsion and machinery...if they dont USE them? Or if they "travel" in ways we dont understand?

You really showed a lack of understanding how advanced they very well should be. Machines? Thats earthly. Proplusion? For what? Those "machines" that they may not have used in millions of years?

I dont think they need to fly around in triangles with lights at 3 corners and glowing colors while making high-speed right turns. Thats really quite primitive. But, I do understand thats the only reference you could come up with in the original tread post.

Think out of the box...triangel...orb...whatever.

Are you stupid? I was talking about the Euro Space Agency.


Read the rest of my posts,, rookie



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.


The only sensible explanation to me requires two things:

a) ETs have some knowledge/engineering control of fields which couple into the stress-energy tensor in hte Einstein equation (curvature operator(space) = stress-energy-tensor of stuff) immensely more than the ones we presently know, e.g. they have engineered Dark Energy. This way they effectively have control of inertia and in their local frame they do not experience such extreme forces. Note also, that this ability must also imply gravitational lensing, so therefore it may only appear that the craft are making instantaneous 90 degree turns when in fact that is an illusion and consequence of following all the light rays through locally curved space created by their craft.

b) the craft used near Earth are not capable of interstellar travel.
edit on 14-1-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911

Theoretical physicists....the only people held less accountable than weathermen!


It's a funny and smug statement, but in truth wrong.

Actual weathermen---say people who work in scientific weather and climate prediction have had their models and theories quantitatively and rigorously evaluated across many measures for decades. And yes, they have gotten substantially better.

Theoretical physicists, as well, but it's often harder to convince people to do the experiments for their needs vs somebody else's. needs.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

Originally posted by dimethylmercury
I'm by no means an expert, but I shall give you my take on it.

1. As I understand it, the occupants do not feel inertial forces because they do not travel through space but rather fold the fabric of spacetime to arrive at their destination.

The problem with such concepts is that they only exist in the realm of abstract mathematics and science fiction. The only phenomena that have been observed in the universe that can visibly bend space time are black holes, and I truly doubt a space-faring civilization would replicate the characteristics of a black hole on their starship. Also, travelling through space-time does not negate the effects of the gravitational force, as according to general relativity, the gravitational force although being a weak force is a force that bends space time. Until UFOlogists can engineer a space-time bending technology, such an explanation should be dismissed.


Originally posted by dimethylmercury2. Many speculate that the classic "disk" shaped UFO is a scout ship which docks with a larger (possibly cylindrical or cigar shaped) mothership. The question of their motivation for visiting requires a knowledge of alien thought processes which nobody can reasonably posses and therefore speculation about which is precarious at best.

Still, starships that are capable of reaching near light speeds would have to be the size of countries, unless everything about the laws of energy conservation are incorrect. Again, the responsibility falls on the UFO community to produce significant evidence that our most well understood physical laws are wrong.


I find this even less plausible and completely incommensurate with observational evidence, so the logical possibilities are limited to

a) there are no ETs visiting
b) there are ETs visiting and they have the ability to engineer the metric, a.k.a. "warp drive"

In astrophysics, both the dark matter and dark energy are substantial outstanding problems, they couple gravitationally, and we presently have no acceptable mechanistic explanation whatsoever.

Or maybe the explanaation is even more mundane, but we just don't know how to engineer it, it's just gravitomagnetism. Think of a ultra-super NMR which can align spins into a macroscopic configuration (in NMR the alignment fraction is still just a very small percentage), Bose-Einstein condensate?

Normal gravitomagnetism, say from rotation of the Earth, is utterly tiny. That isn't going to help, but if the nuclei can be made to align substantially and they are spinning really really fast, would that cause gravitomagnetic effects? (what's the dependence on 'rotation rate'?) Note that from the Einstein-deHaas effect, quantum-mechanical spin really is real angular momentum.

What about quantum gravity? We have no good theory for this, but we can create macroscopic quantum systems (superconductors and bose-einstein condensates) and they certainly have exotic properties.
edit on 14-1-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by LazloFarnsworth
It amusing you use Earth terminology. You say "current propulsion" and "machinery" when in fact thats quite limiting and all you COULD use in your thread.

But who says they NEED propulsion and machinery...if they dont USE them? Or if they "travel" in ways we dont understand?

You really showed a lack of understanding how advanced they very well should be. Machines? Thats earthly. Proplusion? For what? Those "machines" that they may not have used in millions of years?

I dont think they need to fly around in triangles with lights at 3 corners and glowing colors while making high-speed right turns. Thats really quite primitive. But, I do understand thats the only reference you could come up with in the original tread post.

Think out of the box...triangel...orb...whatever.


Who's "they"?

Aliens?

After you finish reading my past posts, you will realize it doesn't matter who the hell they are or where the hell they are from . All living intellect life must master the 3 points of space travel to be successful in space exploration.

The terminology is irrelevant. What is relevant in "being able" to accomplish my 3 points. Which takes "alien physics" or "new physic" to master the 3 points. Which is a bit tough to acquire. Why you assume (from a figment of your imagination) that life out as figures it out is a bit retarded.

I think you really show a lack of anything for not reading my previous posts before jumping into something your obviously not prepared for.

You know nothing about any alien civilizations existence ,let alone how advanced they are. Who the hell is they? You talk like you know "they". Weird guy

How do you know what machine they started off with. You don't...having fun with your imagination yet?

I never said think out of the box. Boy you really have no idea who you are talking to.

Please rebuttal



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