Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by trustnothing
reply to post by bigyin

 

I completely agree they are getting desperate, cant wait for an independent Scotland, we dont need Westminster or the City of London any more

edit on 9-1-2012 by trustnothing because: (no reason given)

As an Englishman i will be glad when Scotland becomes independent. The English can then stop subsidising Scotland. Then you can see how much Scotland needs Westminster:-

www.moneywise.co.uk...

Will you lets have a look at some figs

On the basis of the assumptions and methodologies described in this report, in 2009-10, total public sector non-North Sea current revenue in Scotland was £42.2 billion. This is equivalent to 8.3 per cent of UK total non-North Sea current revenue which is broadly in line with Scotland's share of the UK population

The above figs says revenue for Scotland (NON NORTH SEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Or how about this

Scotland accounted for 11.4 per cent of the total UKGOS in 2009-10. Scotland's large share of the UKGOS is partly due to Scottish Water which is one of the greatest contributors to UK public corporations' GOS

Gross operating surplus ( GOS)

11.4% of the Gross operating surplus and we have only about 8.3 % of the UK population!

Thats the great thing about statistics you can twist them to show what you want DO YOU get my point

Originally posted by Freeborn
Personally I'd dread an English Parliament, much as there should be one, as it would be dominated by London, the South East and the Home Counties and as such would always have a Tory majority.
We in the North East would be marginalised even further.

Regionalisation is playing into the EU's hands Freeborn, you should know that!

What about an English Parliament not in London? Perhaps Winchester, or Birmingham? Don't forget though, seeing as you worry about marginalisation, that some 20% of the population live in London alone and even more in the surrounding counties, so there will always be an element of "London" first. I hate it to, mind, I work with Londoners and it is shocking the amount they don't know about life outside London or in fact that there is any life at all!

Maybe England should declare independence from London? A bring back County Councils...

For a start Id love if scotland were independent so that we dont have to goto war with any country america wants us to!

that alone is enough for me , we wouldnt be sending our youths away to die in some illegal war whenever the US snaps its fingers.

Our tax money would not gotowards funding the british army , you can say that we would still play a role however if we became independent we would have no obligation to support the british army !

we could have a standing army and thats it !

Originally posted by yeti101
Its not Scotlands fault England put their fees up so high.

Blame the Westminster government for putting the fees up so high in England and being bad negotiators

Actually, it was with the backing of the Scots MP's in Westminster it got passed! Without them, the vote would have failed.

So yes, there is an element of blame for this...

reply to post by HallamFoe

And when we do leave the union...we're taking our oil, gas, gold, our clean water, our offshore windfarms, and any other natural resources.

Good luck in providing energy for your country of 51 million.

It has already been said in this thread that North Sea oil and gas reserves are running low.

England has offshore wind turbines, the Solway Firth is littered with them, I can see them now.

There is countless nuclear power stations, as well as coal powerstations, and onshore wind turbines.

There is more than enough clean water, for example, have you ever visited the Lake District?

England has vast natural resources, but for some reason Maggie Thatcher decided it was cheaper to import.

Again, for the record, I'm half and half, and living on the border, I don't want to choose sides, but at the same time I don't want either side putting forward arguments which are factually incorrect.

reply to post by Six6Six


You are citing the very reasons the snp will use in an attempt to justify an independent Scotland. Like the rest of the UK when our heavy industries were annihilated under Thatcher there never was anything created to take their place----okay briefly we were the call centre capital of Europe (but I did witness grown men weep on a Monday morning at the prospect of another tedious day on the phone for wages that wouldn’t keep themselves let alone a family). Instead, the UK government, became skilled in the massaging of statistics – and the really horrible figures were simply ignored.

Rather, again much like the rest of the UK, alcohol was made extremely inexpensive and so called illegal drugs became readily available....the more addictive the better. That was government policy....an age old one at that.

One in three households in Glasgow have no-one working in them, consequently the drug, and other aspects of the black market, are flourishing. The economy never improved – we just got better at surviving it.

I am not pro independence for Scotland. What’s the point? To become a part of a failing European union? To become the latest member of the crashing eurozone? At least as part of the UK I know the officials elected – not so with the Europe. What do Euro mp’s do anyway?) Who gives these faceless euro officials their authority? And...most importantly....who owns the wheelie bin company?

The SNP are being very slippery on some key issues. What currency will an independent Scotland use? Sterling? The UK government has already stated we shouldn’t take that for granted. The euro....well ...that’s already acknowledged as being a failed experiment and is on the brink of crashing the world economy again.

Re the oil – well we produce more oil per day than Kuwait does. We are the only country in the world to discover oil and get poorer. Since the 1970’s Scotland’s oil has been used to pay for the massive unacknowledged unemployment that exists in the whole of the UK. We're also on our way (with the implementation of tidal turbines - not wind power) of becoming the world's first net exporter of green energy.

The West Lothian question is a real problem – and to our shame – under nu labour Scottish mp’s enabled some extremely unfair legislation to be pushed through in the rest of the UK while leaving Scotland largely unaffected. It suited the nu labour government just fine.

Now if you really believe that Scotland is simply a boil on the UK’s bum – could you please tell that to the large English populations who have become the majority in some of our most rural and most beautiful locations while pricing the indigenous people out of their own homes and ways of life. Go to some Scottish islands now and you will meet children born and raised there who have London accents.

The problem with the whole of the UK is the monster that is London. It is because of London’s overpriced housing market and over centralisation that the open door immigration policy was encouraged. Only those prepared to live in digs could afford to take the menial, but necessary jobs, to keep that city turning. That immigrant population took almost all new jobs created in the UK under labour’s so called boom years....and that same immigrant workforce is now being held responsible for the ludicrous youth unemployment the entire country is dealing with.

reply to post by boaby_phet


The Student Loan, as it was before Tuition fees here in England, is to pay for accomodation, living expenses etc.

You don't pay tuition fees whatsoever.

In England, we still get the Student loan, to pay for living, but also now have to pay Tuition fees on top of that.

reply to post by stumason


No Stu - the free education is a real shameful fallacy. They are indeed made to pay tuition fees just not 'up front'. I have my children's bills to verify that.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Freeborn
Personally I'd dread an English Parliament, much as there should be one, as it would be dominated by London, the South East and the Home Counties and as such would always have a Tory majority.
We in the North East would be marginalised even further.

Regionalisation is playing into the EU's hands Freeborn, you should know that!

What about an English Parliament not in London? Perhaps Winchester, or Birmingham? Don't forget though, seeing as you worry about marginalisation, that some 20% of the population live in London alone and even more in the surrounding counties, so there will always be an element of "London" first. I hate it to, mind, I work with Londoners and it is shocking the amount they don't know about life outside London or in fact that there is any life at all!

Maybe England should declare independence from London? A bring back County Councils...

I like that idea of declaring independence from London, and would forward it myself.. but to be honest down this end of the country mention the discussion of Scottish independence and you'll get one word "Heptarchy" a glint in the eye and a smile thats from a annal local perspective that London and indeed Surrey is actually in the North of England such is everyones love for London.

reply to post by gazza1


Indeed, you are right upon double checking. What I got confused with was the Union of the Crowns under the Stuart's, when the Scottish King James inherited the English crown off his cousin, Queen Elizabeth.

I stand corrected

>bow

Originally posted by HallamFoe
Aye because we really enjoyed being forced into a partnership!

Forced? Not likely. You came begging after spunking all your money trying to build a colony in a mosquito infested part of Panama.

Originally posted by HallamFoe

And when we do leave the union...we're taking our oil, gas, gold, our clean water, our offshore windfarms, and any other natural resources.

Good luck in providing energy for your country of 51 million.

Why do these things keep getting brought as if Scotland was the only place that has Oil, Gas, Wind or gold....

As much of the North Sea rigs reside in "English" waters as they do in Scottish. We also have massive shale gas reserves of our own, plentiful water, more wind by virtue we're bigger.. Why do the Scots think they are some bountiful land of plenty? If it was, they would be exploiting it already!

As for Gold, well, the only mine in operation in the entire UK is expected to yield...wait for it....a total of £76 Million worth of Gold and Silver in it's lifetime! Wow... Don't spend it all at once...

As an English man, I'd love to see the Scots make a go of it by themselves.

I have nothing against Scotland, far from it. If they can do it, then it opens the opportunity for the north of England to split away from that bunch of wankrs down south too!

reply to post by CarlosG


Shock, English dont like other English people, faints, you do know it is the same up here in Scotland yes?

Scottish people dont like other Scottish people.

The fact still remains, other countries have broken away from the controls of the UK and have became independent, but with the Queen still the head of their country and stayed within the Commonwealth. Why cant Scotland do the exact same thing?

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


No they did not ask the UK.

Anyways is not as if Scotland votes for independence there will be a complete separation. The Queen will still be Queen of Scotland. Scotland and the rest of the UK will still share in defense and foreign policy.

It would not be a complete break up there would still have to be negotiations and agreements etc.

Scotland would become part of the Family off countries within the Commonwealth.

I think Cameron is scared that the name UK would loose alot internationally etc.

I how ever will say this. I do not want to vote to break away from one line of red tape which is Westminster to have it replaced by a bigger line of red tape which is Nazi Europe.

reply to post by CarlosG


Why do northerners have such a chip on their shoulder about southerners? Coming from a northern family, but living down south, I never really understood the animosity to southerners. It's not like your all salt of the earth types up north you know.

reply to post by stumason


I've been to Uni and can assure you, we pay for our tuition up here and also get a Student Loan. Both are money paid by the government in advance and repaid at a later date depending on your earnings.

I'm still paying my Uni fees and loan off 6 years later with a couple of years worth of payments left to go.

reply to post by bigyin


The majority of Scots DO NOT want an independent Scotland. All an independent Scotland would do is further damage our collective economic competitiveness.

Quite frankly, the swapping of insults and the rehashing of grudges and petty jealousies are becoming boring.

As are the irrelevant trading of historical 'facts'. As anyone who patronises a site such as this will know, there are no historical 'facts' - histories are written by the winners of conflicts and are, therefore, propaganda. I'm amazed, considering some people's shaky knowledge of the relevant financial situations prevailing in Scotland and England post-Darien and pre-Union, that they have yet to spout some other 'history-propaganda' such as Wallace's army stripping and burning choirboys and monks on their raids into the north of England...

The fact is, Scotland was, and remains a sovereign nation - with our own laws and jurisprudence with that sovereignty vested in the Scottish people rather than in a Parliament and Monarch as in England.

Again, as all of you on this site should know - that 'constitutional' arrangement is not (and never can be) invalidated by mercantile or contract law masquerading as Statute.

Therefore, the Scottish people retain their sovereignty.

If they choose to exercise that sovereignty by voting for independence in a properly constituted plebiscite then Scotland shall be independent again. Regardless of whether Nick Clegg thinks that is 'extreme', or the inhabitants of England, Wales or Northern Ireland don't agree, the forces of precedent, political reality and history will ensure that it happens.

In the event, it is my opinion that, Scotland will become an even better friend and neighbour of England and the rest of the UK, by virtue of having grown-up and no longer being able to blame England for all our ills.

There are a number of issues to be addressed but the Scots will address them. As even the detractors on here have admitted, the Scots have always shown themselves throughout history to be industrious, tenacious, inventive and pragmatic....... for anyone to assert that we are too small, too stupid, too insignificant or too 'extreme' to run our own affairs is patently ludicrous. Nick Clegg and David Cameron reveal more of themselves in their recent statements than they do about the Scots, Alex Salmond, SNP voters or, indeed, voters who support other parties but who also support independence (and they do exist).

The London-centric parties have shown that they have not yet understood the changes that are occurring in Scotland - and with every utterance they propel Scotland towards independence rather than away from it.

Here endeth the sermon.

reply to post by biggilo


Sorry, didn't know that you knew the majority of Scots!

Let the referendum speak. Although in a country that voted against a fairer voting system, i've got no faith at all in the correct decision being made.

reply to post by bigyin

hey mate hows it goin !? been reading this thread since yesterday ... ive cringed ... ive laughed ... ive shouted at the screen ... ive even clapped! but i thought id post this video here. i was going to post it as a thread months ago and forgot about it. see this arguement were all having right now on here and in the media ... it happened in the 70s ... watch the full thing especially for the part where the rules of voting was changed and the dead ended up voting !