It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

page: 11
18
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 04:54 PM
link   
In case you aren't familar "extremist" is the new buzzword everyone is throwing around.

It's all the craze...


Just ask the Obama admin about it, and they'll tell you how they called the tea party extremists, and will probably be calling OWS the same, soon...




posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 04:56 PM
link   
Its serves a negative purpose, because its not a close call from extremists to terrorist in the eyes of the mass media, and the word association game they play with our minds in their aim of complete and utter compliance.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:05 PM
link   
reply to post by RebellionOutlaw
 


In Scotland students get a loan to cover the fees link

This gets paid back later link

When Labour were in power under Blair the Labour Party in England relied heavily on the Scottish return of 72 Labour MP's without which there would be no Labour Government. The Labour MP's in Scotland were duty bound to support whatever the Westminster Government wanted to do, therefore they were unable to do what needed to be done in Scotland. It would be virtually impossible for Labour MP's in Scotland to follow a different line to Labour in England ..... so no they didn't have any say in anything.

During the Thatcher years the last Tory government, there was a massive majority of Labour MP's in Scotland so they had no say in any decisions.

Currently we have I think 1 Tory MP in Scotland and yet we have a Tory government. So again no represntation for Scots.

As a matter of fact it would be fantastic news for the Tory Party in England if Scotland broke away because there would never be another Labour government again .... bear that in mind as we watch Cameron in the coming months.

Nobody in Scotland will ever vote Conservative again. I will vote conservative if we get an independent Scotland, but not for English based Conservatives

edit on 9-1-2012 by bigyin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:09 PM
link   
reply to post by bigyin
 


Scotland has a say in all matters that affect England through their representation in Westminster.
There are some Scottish issues which only Scotland has a say in due to the devolved Scottish parliament at Holyrood.
Same as Wales and Northern Ireland.
And yes you all get a 'lump sum'.
But is there an English Parliament or a 'lump sum' given to England?
Of course not.
None of that is to be held against anyone.
But the fact remains that Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish are better represented within the UK than the English.

Personally I'd dread an English Parliament, much as there should be one, as it would be dominated by London, the South East and the Home Counties and as such would always have a Tory majority.
We in the North East would be marginalised even further.

As for the wars - Blair lied to us all, misled Parliament and like every PM from Heath onwards has been guilty of passing UK sovereignty to the EU - for all of these crimes he should be prosecuted.

As for the free nursing care for the elderly proving expensive etc....this would probably get worse if Scotland does vote for independance.

Sometimes we don't appreciate what we have till we've lost it.
edit on 9/1/12 by Freeborn because: Oops...EU not UK.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:19 PM
link   
reply to post by bigyin
 


Scottish students do not pay University fees.
Students from other parts of the UK studying at Scottish Universities do have to pay.
Scottish students studying at Universities in other parts of the UK do not have to pay.

Scottish MP's voted for the introduction of University fees in the UK even though the issue is devolved and does not affect Scotland.
English MP's can not vote on the introduction of University fees in Scotland as that is decided in Holyrood.

Very decent of the Scottish MP's who were following party line and not personal conviction and I'm sure you'd agree hardly 'fair' or 'right'.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


I gave you the links about fees. If you dont want to read them thats fine.

Remember when Thatcher imposed poll tax on Scotland ? ... was that fair ?



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:38 PM
link   
reply to post by bigyin
 


Nick clegg cant pass judgement on anyone,he has already more than proven he is nothing but a tory bootlick!

If i was him id be ashamed to show my face,why he hasnt resigned is a miracle,he has no say he is merely a puppet whipping boy for cameron....sooner we split from that sham that they call a government the better



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 



Scottish students do not pay University fees. Students from other parts of the UK studying at Scottish Universities do have to pay. Scottish students studying at Universities in other parts of the UK do not have to pay.


Scottish universities are allowed to charge English students the same amount as English universities charge English students if they choose to. Its not Scotlands fault England put their fees up so high. Under the agreement negotiated by the different education boards Scottish students who attend universities in england pay the same as Scottish students in Scotland.

Blame the Westminster government for putting the fees up so high in England and being bad negotiators
edit on 9-1-2012 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:44 PM
link   
reply to post by bigyin
 


Sorry mate but the links are about non-Scottish UK students studying at Scottish Universities - they have to pay.
Scottish students do not.

I think I've made my dislike for Tories pretty clear.
The Poll Tax was unfair, full stop.
Which is why I was there on the day.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:56 PM
link   
reply to post by yeti101
 


Of course it's Westminster's fault, I never said anything other.
But a large number of Scottish MP's voted for the introduction of University fees in England whilst this had no bearing on Scottish University fees which remains a matter for Holyrood.



Scottish MP vote controversyThe vote on 27 January 2004 caused controversy as because of the close nature of the result, the votes of MPs with constituencies in Scotland proved crucial in terms of getting it through. With university funding devolved in Scotland, the result of any increase in tuition fees would not affect students who chose to live and study in Scotland.[34] Peter Duncan, the Conservatives' only Scottish MP, had abstained from the vote saying "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible.... The constitutionally cavalier actions of Scottish MPs undermine the devolution settlement and play into the hands of the separatists on both sides of the border.... Those Scottish MPs who walked through the lobbies today should hang their .s in shame."[34] Shadow Education Secretary Tim Yeo said in a point of order "It is completely wrong that a bill which imposes higher charges on students attending the English universities should only be carried by this house using the votes of Scottish MPs when the students attending universities in the constituencies of those Scottish MPs do not have to pay those higher charges."[34] In all 46 Scottish Labour MPs voted with the government with the 5 SNP and 10 Liberal Democrat MPs representing constituencies in Scotland voting against. Labour's Frank Doran, a Scottish MP who voted with the government said "my fundamental objections were about the variable fees and the effect on Scottish universities, but I think the effect of the variable fees has been mitigated in a huge way by the various concessions the government has made."


en.wikipedia.org...

It is an example of how Scottish MP's can affect something that has essentially nothing to do with them.
That's not a dig at Scotland or Scottish people - just an example of the arse about face system we have and how politicians, of all nationalities and political persuassions, put party line before personal conviction in parliament and shows how we need urgent and radical reform.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 05:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


good we agree then


SNP have said for decades that Scottish MPs votes should be weighted to correct this. Its Labour who really dont want that to happen. Makes it too easy for the Tories
edit on 9-1-2012 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:00 PM
link   
Any Scots here remember the month prior to the referendum on devolution who also had cable or sky at the time? They showed Braveheart every day for the month before it (twice daily).

As a bushy tailed youngster it was a dream to live in an independent Scotland. Now, as a growed up cynic, I see just a few problems with the concept mostly centred on the numpties we have in charge.

We have political dynasties in our local councils and we have an extremely corrupt legal system.

See Scotland's Bent Judges for a starter

and A Diary of Injustice in Scotoland for the real meaty detail.

The Scots have to know the individuals they hope to empower before they try to make a break. (Right now they do not.) The political apathy is shocking. It used to be that you could stick a red rosette on a monkey and they would be elected...now it's snp yellow on the same damned monkey.

The old boy network is far tighter and far more corrupt in Scotland than in England - simply by virtue of our small population. If they deal with the brotherhood and their evil sisters maybe....just maybe.... but I doubt it.




edit on 9-1-2012 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:10 PM
link   
reply to post by yeti101
 


Weighted to correct what?

A situation where Scottish MP's carry the balance and effectively decide that University fees should be charged in England but Scottish MSP's solely have the right to make the same decision in Scotland.

Do you think that's right and correct?

Don't know if I'm slow and stupid today or what but.....?
Sorry.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


My two lads both attended university in Scotland - and they keep getting bills for it still. Free higher education in Scotland is an SNP fallacy as is free care for the elderly who still have to sell their homes to pay for it.....but hey we get free prescriptions for all.

Scotland has been described as a 'statist little nation'....I agree with that. For the past 15 years almost all advertised jobs have been for local councils, the Scottish Executive, the NHS, social services etc etc. If, in it's present state, they do vote for independence I'm leaving.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


so you want to exclude Scottish mps entirely from votes on devolved issues?. Labour are your main obstacle

it plays right into the hands of the SNP, im sure they wouldn't mind it will push the Scottish electorate towards voting yes on independence.


edit on 9-1-2012 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:25 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


you are sorely mistaken, i am currently in higher education and have to go through all the same funding process as university students (im doing an hnd, = second year degree level).

We most deffinitelly have to pay fee's, we either have to pay upfront or get a loan via saas / student loans company.

10000000% we do NOT get free education!



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:25 PM
link   
reply to post by christina-66
 


My brother went to University here in England, (as well as a year in Boston, USA), and it cost my parents an absolute fortune.
But not for Tuition fees etc it was for accomodatiom, living expenses, books etc.
My Dad was a welder with a wife and three kids living on a council estate and my brother got the lowest grant possible despite getting A's in every subject.
We have a cousin the same age as my brother whose father was a company director. He got good grades but not as good as my brother - he got the maximum grant possible and a bursary to a Cambridge college.

Seeing how much my parents had to give to enable my brothers 'free' education embittered me somewhat at the time.

Thankfully University was never a serious option for me as my parents would have willingly put themselves through the same for me if I had wanted.

A University education has always been expensive and never free despite what some would have us believe.

Unfortunately but not suprisingly it's got dearer though with the introduction of Tuition fees on top of everything else.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:35 PM
link   
reply to post by yeti101
 


No mate, I'd reform the whole system - read some of my previous posts in this thread.

I understand your point about Labour.

I also believe that if we are not to reform the whole electoral and parliamentary system then we should at least have an English parliament with the same devolved powers as Holyrood etc.....even though I am aware of the dire consequences this would have for N.E. England.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:39 PM
link   
reply to post by Freeborn
 


I want to apologise for getting it wrong about the fees.

I was under the impression that a loan was given to pay the fee and the loan was paid back. But having looked about I cannot find that to be the case so I must assume you are correct and I am wrong.

My son went to uni and he only recently finished paying off his loan but that seems to be from a previous time when the system I knew was in place.

Once again apologies for getting that wrong.



posted on Jan, 9 2012 @ 06:40 PM
link   
Everyones arguing over who like apples, loves the pears and hates strawberries... and no-one is asking why your arguing over a fruitbowl??



new topics

top topics



 
18
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join