The concept of hell and eternal damnation is a form of control.

Does anyone with a shred of common sense actually believe that God, who is essentially "Love Incarnate", would allow anyone to suffer eternally, and be tortured by demons, forever?

Sometimes I wonder why messages like these are spread around.

reply to post by MrUncreated


Why do you wonder, when your thread title has the answer?

Control my friend... Control over the populous.

And that control still exists in the churches today.

Exactly, it's so you live in fear.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MrUncreated

 

Why do you wonder, when your thread title has the answer?

Control my friend... Control over the populous.

And that control still exists in the churches today.

It defies common sense and logic. "Do what I say, or I'll torture you, forever!" And no, just because God doesn't personally torture you forever, doesn't make him "good". Handing us off to someone else to do it--in this case, Satan--is no different that our government outsourcing torture to a foreign country. The whole idea is ridiculous, because no matter how you look at it, both God and Satan would be evil, in this case.

You guys are ridiculous. HAHAHA.

If you want to break it down, Hell is a means of controlling you at a very basis level, but it controls you to not be a bad person. If one actually didn't believe in the afterlife that the Christian Bible speaks of then you could technically do whatever you wanted to.

Oh, you mean Hell isn't real? So it's really okay that I cheat on my wife, look at pornography when I have a significant other, cheat, steal, kill, control other weakminded people for my advantage, curse at people who don't deserve it, AND be completely selfish my whole life? WOW I'm SO glad I'm not being controlled! I HAVE SO MUCH FREEDOM.

The Christian religion tries to keep benevolence living in the physical bodies of the Earth, and I suggest you pick it up once actually before you sit there and tell people they will be living in fear if they follow it.

Sheesh

Originally posted by Myollinir
You guys are ridiculous. HAHAHA.

If you want to break it down, Hell is a means of controlling you at a very basis level, but it controls you to not be a bad person. If one actually didn't believe in the afterlife that the Christian Bible speaks of then you could technically do whatever you wanted to.

Oh, you mean Hell isn't real? So it's really okay that I cheat on my wife, look at pornography when I have a significant other, cheat, steal, kill, control other weakminded people for my advantage, curse at people who don't deserve it, AND be completely selfish my whole life? WOW I'm SO glad I'm not being controlled! I HAVE SO MUCH FREEDOM.

The Christian religion tries to keep benevolence living in the physical bodies of the Earth, and I suggest you pick it up once actually before you sit there and tell people they will be living in fear if they follow it.

Sheesh

If the threat of eternal torture is the ONLY thing keeping you from doing those things, then you are still not a good person, in the end.

It is the same with laws. If the ONLY reason you don't break the law, is because you fear the punishment, then you are not that good of a person, are you.

So your logic is full of fail, I'm afraid. Sorry.

This priest agrees with you, and I agree with both of you ...

There is no Hell in the old testament by the way.. there is no hell in the original scrolls.. the concept of hell is a mistranslation of a word that means Grave ..

The church is aware of this, but the idea of reword and punishment is far too useful in the world of religion because if people think they will be rewarded for doing what they SHOULD be doing any way, or punished for doing what they are told they shouldn't be.. people will be more likely to listen..

If God is all loving, and all forgiving as taught, then hell is a silly concept anyway.. but again, hell is the invention of man .. it was never in the original 'bible' .. do your homework .. KJV isn't the holy word of God.. it's a mistranslation of a translation =)

Hear this priest out .. he makes a lot of sense.

The threat of hell will not convert a non believer, so I am not to sure how it would be used as a form of control?

reply to post by Myollinir


So if you were not religious you would cheat on your wife?
That means that you do think about doing so, which doesn't say much for your integrity.
All people do not think like you do.
Many are self-responsible honorable people.

Originally posted by Max_TO
The threat of hell will not convert a non believer, so I am not to sure how it would be used as a form of control?

You'd be surprised, it's converted QUITE a few people especially at the end of their lives.. but that isn't the point, it's a form of controlling the believers.. it keeps them in line, it makes sure they follow those commandments for fear of eternal torment if they don't .. that is where the control is.

Originally posted by miniatus
but that isn't the point, it's a form of controlling the believers.. it keeps them in line, it makes sure they follow those commandments for fear of eternal torment if they don't .. that is where the control is.

That's a generalization and forgive me for saying so... I don't see to many "believers " being kept in line, so once again I would have to disagree with that.

Originally posted by Max_TO

Originally posted by miniatus
but that isn't the point, it's a form of controlling the believers.. it keeps them in line, it makes sure they follow those commandments for fear of eternal torment if they don't .. that is where the control is.

That's a generalization and forgive me for saying so... I don't see to many "believers " being kept in line, so once again I would have to disagree with that.

You're free to disagree.. whether it is successful or not isn't the point.. it's true that a lot of people abuse their faith and use it as a justification .. the bible itself has been altered, added to and had things omitted to fit the times .. a baptist friend of mine is convinced, due to his selective reading, that it's ok for him to sin it up every day as long as he prays every night for forgiveness .. he believes that saves him from his firey future in the depths of hell..

But I still contend, hell doesn't exist .. it isn't in the original texts.. it's a mistranslation and from there, it's been expanded on and been made a thing, purely from man's own imagination..

some people thing that the God of the old testament is different from the God of the new testament. Doing good only because you fear eternal damnation doesn't seem very spiritual. the modern church teaches that the human is weak and imperfect and the heart of man is desperately wicked. I don't believe it. I think that if anything we are in hell right now. the modern church should be called Paulism. If they really focused on the teaching of Jesus it would be much different. Focusing on loving others instead of damnation. I wasnt there but im pretty sure Jesus didnt say to give 10% of our money to some group so they can build a bigger (multi million dollar) building. or have a comittee to argue over the color of the carpet. What do you think Jesus was talking about when he was dining with prostitutes and tax collectors? 'you are all going to hell' would have been a pretty bad dinner conversation. The message has been twisted over 2000 years. and when they put the bible together... really... ' lets take all these letters by a guy who never really met Jesus and used to kill christians. lets have those, don't look at all these other books over here... "

reply to post by MrUncreated


First of all your thread doesn't even follow the guidelines.Second you have plenty of time to figure out how to avoid the second death. But I doubt you will.

reply to post by miniatus


Your Baptists friend seems to prove my point.

I feel that the flip side to all this is the misconception regarding god's love.

a baptist friend of mine is convinced, due to his selective reading, that it's ok for him to sin it up every day as long as he prays every night for forgiveness .. he believes that saves him from his firey future in the depths of hell..

yeah.. that's classic. there are so many like that. I've been to many different churches, different denominations. so many ended up being politics, holier than thou crap. I feel that they all missed the point completely. lol this is a good way to get some people fired up.

inflammatory posts incoming

reply to post by MrUncreated


Lmao. That isn't the only reason.

It should be a supplementary, just as justice's punishments are supplementary - because you should desire to be a good person. Now the analogy you brought up has the same examples that you are so biased on, where some people don't commit crimes only because of the punishments. So the government is now a negative form of control. You should just turn this thread into "AnArChY RuLeZ" instead. You so easily judge people without actually speaking to them just by taking a concept that is spoke about through grapevines.

Pick up the Bible and read it before you come to an argument. And actually try applying it to your life, or even your mind as a reality. Then you might be able to come to arguments with an even playing field mind instead of something as ridiculous as this thread.

Hell is also not talked about as much in the Bible as much as it is in current life with spoken words. People blow it out of proportion and go nuts with it. Hell can technically be experienced in real life. It is when you're in so deep with sin that you create Hell and your life is terrible. Your soul may experience this outside of the living realm as well.

reply to post by OhZone


You don't HAVE to be religious to be an upstanding person, but it is a good basis to have. There is also a huge community of people to befriend to keep you from creating Hell for yourself. This was a very basic concept that I was addressing and obviously I've thought about the peaceful buddhist before and where his soul will rest, and it gives me unease. SO I personally believe peoples' concept of Hell is blown out of proportion, but it is definitely not this retarded control system that everyone in this thread thinks it is.

reply to post by Akragon


I think people should realise a warning when they see one. How can anyone not believe the obvious truth?

Real eyes

Realise

Real lies

Originally posted by MrUncreated
Does anyone with a shred of common sense actually believe that God, who is essentially "Love Incarnate", would allow anyone to suffer eternally, and be tortured by demons, forever?

Sometimes I wonder why messages like these are spread around.

You may well be correct that eternal damnation is a concept created to control the masses, but I disagree with your blanket statement that God is essentially "Love Incarnate". What evidence do you have for that statement? God could just as easily be "Hate Incarnate", and your entire life, in fact all life, could quite possibly be a sick demented joke designed to mess with your mind, get you hoping, and then whisk you off into eternal torment for nothing but the pure enjoyment of a sick mind. God could also be neutral, and neither Love nor Hate, but something inbetween. I really don't see how people arrive at "God is Love" except that they want too, or they believe it through religious experience, since it is certainly not necessarily the logical conclusion one arrives at by looking at the evidence. Personally, I'd say the evidence shows God to be more of a neutral force than anything with Love being one of God's many aspects. With that said, eternal damnation is a possibility, but that fact need not be feared and allowed to control one, since if God is all-powerful there really is nothing one could do about it anyway, meaning it is pointless to worry about it.