The concept of hell and eternal damnation is a form of control.

reply to post by Gorman91

Change is imperfection. It implies that perfection has to be obtained. And if it is given at birth, but loss, then how can life be perfect?

Change is not imperfection... At birth you are sinless, though your past life actions will eventually manifest within this life...

The Bible says

God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:21

If they call God made flesh "sin", it implies that to be human is to sin.

I don't care what paul says...

It is not sinful to be human... it is nature.

Past lives do not exist. How can they? Why save a man from a boat that isn't sinking?

seriously?

"How can they" is all you have?

On the contrary, it is somewhat clear that one of the reasons the flood came was to destroy the children of "the sons of God" and the "daughters of men". It's pretty accepted that whatever those things were, they were damned before they were born.

There are children born evil.

You believe whatever you like my friend.... Children are not born evil...

In fact "EVIL" is a completely subjective word...

No one is born evil.... You are taught evil...

And i still say "evil" defined as some spiritual entity that makes you do bad things... does not exist.

Then why is there a part of the brain evolved to process hatred.

Because you are born with the emotion. It is never learned nor taught.

Did you actually read that link or just google it?

It does not say "we are born with that emotion"

If it never ends, and you are being punished, then Hell exists.

It is not yet sure how it all works out after death. But its clear that the judgement of the lambs and goats was only about believers. So where are the nonbelievers?

They get the same deal... judgement after death.

It never ends because the spirit is eternal... And no hell doesn't exist... If you need punishment you will return to the physical realm....

Gehenna is a place where unfaithfulness to God occurred. It's no different than how some veterans regard their former place of fighting as "hell"

Incorrect...

It is a garbage dumb just outside of Jerusalam... look it up... again!

The dude with the pitchfork doesn't exist, but Satan does. He is a being of light. An angle. Built and created to lead. God gave him independence. In Islam, this is regarded as one of the first points where God created free will with him and the other Jinn. Christianity essentially agrees with this. They are in rebellion.

I have faced such creatures in the same dreams I mentioned.

Thats nice....

such creatures have no power over me, and thus i will never see one...

Then you are picking and choosing and wrong. You either accept it all or not. To go half way is to claim to know more than God. That's hell bound if you ask me.

I will not except it all... and i will happily throw most of it out the window...

IF that implies that i know more then your bible God, then so be it... Bible God is not my God... The Father of Jesus is... and they are not the same.

And just so you know... i didn't ask you.

If you do not believe all of scripture, why should I look at scripture to prove you wrong?

You pick and chose. Therefore scripture is irrelevant for you.

Simply because you're not quoting from your own book.... so prove your words within the book you believe in.

Scripture is not irrelevant to me... words of men are irrelevant to me.

Yes he said hell exists. See? But are you picking and choosing again?

It is also said "Do not sin in your anger".

He did not say "hell exists" he was using hell to express his teachings.... The first will be last, and the last will be first... Do you not know what a simile is?

He did not go to the afterlife. He went to hell. Before Christ, all souls went to hell, but a part of hell is reserved for God's chosen. Christ took them out of this place of waiting to their rewards in heaven. It seems since then, either people who die psychically die forever, "crying out" from their graves for justice, and to be risen on the last day. Others say you go directly to heaven. Because the martyrs still cry out from their graves and some go onto heaven, it is inherent that this is not necessarily figured out yet. The spirit of the man may call out to justice and do work in another, while his soul enjoys eternity

Again, scripture please...

False. Only the believers are saved from spiritual death. We all must die.

Believe whatever you like my friend... i fully disagree

I can punch many plot holes in your belief, as seen above. Please consider that you are wrong.

You haven't made a scratch in my beliefs... though its amusing you think you did.

Most serious is reincarnation. Something totally false.

If my dreams really were reincarnation, why am I never punished? Why do I continue to progress to better experiences despite every one of the lives I see in my mind being lives lead in destructive tendencies? Explain to me why I never suffer a day's punishment for them.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Why would you be punished for your dreams? What do dreams have to do with reincarnation?

You haven't been punished for your dreams because THEY WERE DREAMS... meaning not real

I say because reincarnation does not exist. Because those are creative images from my mind, or images of what my spirit has done for others in time. A spirit not my own. My soul is my own.

The soul is not the spirit

You're losing me dude....

The only thing you're showing me is that you are quite confused...

Originally posted by Myollinir
You guys are ridiculous. HAHAHA.

If you want to break it down, Hell is a means of controlling you at a very basis level, but it controls you to not be a bad person. If one actually didn't believe in the afterlife that the Christian Bible speaks of then you could technically do whatever you wanted to.

Oh, you mean Hell isn't real? So it's really okay that I cheat on my wife, look at pornography when I have a significant other, cheat, steal, kill, control other weakminded people for my advantage, curse at people who don't deserve it, AND be completely selfish my whole life? WOW I'm SO glad I'm not being controlled! I HAVE SO MUCH FREEDOM.

The Christian religion tries to keep benevolence living in the physical bodies of the Earth, and I suggest you pick it up once actually before you sit there and tell people they will be living in fear if they follow it.

Sheesh

You don't need a hell or a priest telling what is GOOD or what is evil! This is the whole point.

Only an immature/naive person needs such a "help" and "getting taught" what is SUPPOSED to be good and evil - because the better people, the REAL spiritual, mature and wise people will develop what is called ethics and morale ON THEIR OWN.

Every human *basically* has the ability to grow and discover "what is good" and "what is bad"...this is what differs the mature and good people from the sheep who need be told of a "hell" to "learn" things which should come alone otherwise.

If you don't get it that it might be wrong to cheat, steal, kill etc....i doubt that the "teachings" of the Church with its hell and other stories will help you to become a better human.

reply to post by Akragon

Change is not imperfection... At birth you are sinless, though your past life actions will eventually manifest within this life...

If my dreams are true, and they show past lives, they have not. In my dreams I have killed billions in war by accident, by purpose, by design, and by chance. In my dreams I have done many bad things. Vivid dreams, sometimes more real than what so-called past life experiences claim. Yet in my life, I am a successful college student with virtually null health defects. Quite honestly a perfect human specimen, albeit a bit lazy and lethargic at times, and as a result, prone to some overweight tendencies in less active months. But alas, I loose it all in mere weeks with merely an hour worth of exercise. You know, when I was younger, I was prediabetic. Had 130 blood sugar and was 40 pounds over weight. I overdosed on cinnamon in all my foods and ran a mile a day, and within 2 weeks I had lost 10 pounds and blood sugar was down to 80. Once I even did an experiment to test my own health. I stopped brushing my teeth for years. No cavities. In fact, the dentist, knowing I was doing this, had no explanation for the virtually null plaque on my teeth. I don't understand why this is either.

I'd have to be Jesus himself in the last life to have it as good as I do.

Simply put, if past lives say anything to this experience, then the more evil you are, the better off you are in the next life.

Karma does not exist. Nor do past lives. I prove this. And I have it on good authority that if these dreams are true, I might as well have been the devil himself.

I don't care what paul says... It is not sinful to be human... it is nature.

If you don't care what Paul says, then you are picking and choosing. Christ himself said all the law is still in affect, and shall be. He gave no pause to the Jewish law. And the Old Testament said:

"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live: he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live." EZEKIEL 18:20-22

Well jeez. Looks like your whole argument is dead.

seriously? "How can they" is all you have?

I repeat. Why save a man from a boat that isn't sinking?

You believe whatever you like my friend.... Children are not born evil... In fact "EVIL" is a completely subjective word... No one is born evil.... You are taught evil... And i still say "evil" defined as some spiritual entity that makes you do bad things... does not exist.

Difference being: my words are backed by the scripture.

Did you actually read that link or just google it? It does not say "we are born with that emotion"

Then why does that part of the brain manage it?

They get the same deal... judgement after death. It never ends because the spirit is eternal... And no hell doesn't exist... If you need punishment you will return to the physical realm....

NOTHING in scripture backs this. It is your own lie.

Incorrect... It is a garbage dumb just outside of Jerusalam... look it up... again!

It is a place where people gave to other Gods and committed sins. The fact is was a garbage dump is also relevant. but do not forget that it is a place no different than recalling something as hell in your past.

I call Staten Island hell. BECAUSE it once was a garbage dump. And it is where many have turned from God.

Thats nice.... such creatures have no power over me, and thus i will never see one...

And yet you make up your own truths from scripture and pick and choose.

I will not except it all... and i will happily throw most of it out the window... IF that implies that i know more then your bible God, then so be it... Bible God is not my God... The Father of Jesus is... and they are not the same. And just so you know... i didn't ask you.

Doesn't matter if you asked me or not. It is hellbound. Jesus said his father's word on the Old Testament was true. Therefore, you do not know the God of Jesus Christ. Because you are going against what he said and refuse to admit it.

Simply because you're not quoting from your own book.... so prove your words within the book you believe in. Scripture is not irrelevant to me... words of men are irrelevant to me.

And what Holy Power gave you insight into what in the Bible is man's word and what is God's? Because that's what you are doing. picking and choosing.

Hypocrite. The very thing Jesus hated.

He did not say "hell exists" he was using hell to express his teachings.... The first will be last, and the last will be first... Do you not know what a simile is?

I smile when it is time to smile. You make sure that time is far away by your ignorance. Jesus said Hell existed. he used it many times. If it did not exist,he would have said so in the years in which he spent preaching. One would expect a little thing like eternal damnation to be something to speak about if it's false.

Again, scripture please...

Jesus said the Old laws are still relevant. The old laws speak about hell. Jesus gave a parable. Jesus never lied about reality in his parables. He simply used them to teach a message. He would say if something was just a supposition. Therefore, scripture proves it.

Believe whatever you like my friend... i fully disagree

And I have scripture.

You haven't made a scratch in my beliefs... though its amusing you think you did.

Bible calls such people idiots. I won't call you that. But realize that you pretty much just claimed yourself to have a hard heart.

What in the hell are you talking about? Why would you be punished for your dreams? What do dreams have to do with reincarnation? You haven't been punished for your dreams because THEY WERE DREAMS... meaning not real

Yes I believe that. But if you cannot know anything about your past life. Then there is no certainty it exists. In fact, if you cannot know it, then why should you be punished for it? You were not that person.

How about this. Where in scripture is reincarnation mentioned?

You're losing me dude.... The only thing you're showing me is that you are quite confused...

Where's reincarnation in scripture?

reply to post by Gorman91

If my dreams are true, and they show past lives,

Where are you getting this from?

Who told you your dreams are your past lives?

I've done supernatural things in my dreams... they are JUST dreams man... nothing backs dreams being your past lives, though i've heard of people having dreams of their past lives.

Logic tells me if you're a superhero in your dream... it isn't real. :bnghd:

In my dreams I have done many bad things. Vivid dreams, sometimes more real than what so-called past life experiences claim. Yet in my life, I am a successful college student with virtually null health defects. Quite honestly a perfect human specimen, albeit a bit lazy and lethargic at times, and as a result, prone to some overweight tendencies in less active months. But alas, I loose it all in mere weeks with merely an hour worth of exercise. You know, when I was younger, I was prediabetic. Had 130 blood sugar and was 40 pounds over weight. I overdosed on cinnamon in all my foods and ran a mile a day, and within 2 weeks I had lost 10 pounds and blood sugar was down to 80. Once I even did an experiment to test my own health. I stopped brushing my teeth for years. No cavities. In fact, the dentist, knowing I was doing this, had no explanation for the virtually null plaque on my teeth. I don't understand why this is either.

I'd have to be Jesus himself in the last life to have it as good as I do

Perhaps you'd like an applause?

Simply put, if past lives say anything to this experience, then the more evil you are, the better off you are in the next life.

O....k

Karma does not exist. Nor do past lives. I prove this. And I have it on good authority that if these dreams are true, I might as well have been the devil himself.

You're just babbling now...

You prove nothing as far as i've seen...

If you don't care what Paul says, then you are picking and choosing. Christ himself said all the law is still in affect, and shall be. He gave no pause to the Jewish law. And the Old Testament said:

Im free to pick and choose... Im Not Christian

Lets see what else Ezekiel wrote... since we're using the OT now...

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Well jeez. Looks like your whole argument is dead.

Is it now...

Your quote....

But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live: he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.

So if a murderer turns away from his sins, and suddenly decides to "follow your path" (whatever that might be)
He will live... and hes all Good, no "eternal damnation" for him....

Is that correct?

I repeat. Why save a man from a boat that isn't sinking?

you're boat is sinking man...

Difference being: my words are backed by the scripture.

Excuse me if i laugh...

What scripture?

Then why does that part of the brain manage it?

So you didn't realize the brain grows as you grow?

At least i understand....

They get the same deal... judgement after death. It never ends because the spirit is eternal... And no hell doesn't exist... If you need punishment you will return to the physical realm....
........
..........

NOTHING in scripture backs this. It is your own lie

I didn't say anything about scripture... this is my belief.

And where it does say it, you would not understand... clearly.

It is a place where people gave to other Gods and committed sins. The fact is was a garbage dump is also relevant. but do not forget that it is a place no different than recalling something as hell in your past.

I call Staten Island hell. BECAUSE it once was a garbage dump. And it is where many have turned from God.

So you're more then happy to judge an entire city...

Im impressed...

Why would a garbage dump be no different then "recalling something as hell in your past"?

And yet you make up your own truths from scripture and pick and choose.

Why should i not "pick and chose" ?

The bible was written by man... i can pick whatever i like, it has no authority over me... its a book written by men... And out of that i "choose" the words of Jesus... and the rest can be tossed as far as spiritual knowledge is concerned... not that you'd understand that either of course.

Doesn't matter if you asked me or not. It is hellbound. Jesus said his father's word on the Old Testament was true. Therefore, you do not know the God of Jesus Christ. Because you are going against what he said and refuse to admit it.

IF you say so dude...

And what Holy Power gave you insight into what in the Bible is man's word and what is God's? Because that's what you are doing. picking and choosing.

Hypocrite. The very thing Jesus hated.

lol...

Apparently you wouldn't know who gave me this "holy power" if he came up and slapped you...

Judge me how you like.... you are free to do so...

I smile when it is time to smile. You make sure that time is far away by your ignorance. Jesus said Hell existed. he used it many times. If it did not exist,he would have said so in the years in which he spent preaching. One would expect a little thing like eternal damnation to be something to speak about if it's false.

You make my head hurt man...

I said Simile..

Jesus said the Old laws are still relevant. The old laws speak about hell. Jesus gave a parable. Jesus never lied about reality in his parables. He simply used them to teach a message. He would say if something was just a supposition. Therefore, scripture proves it.

Saying "scripture proves it" over and over again is pointless you know.....

Im getting tired of this...

And I have scripture.

Apparently you don't....

Bible calls such people idiots. I won't call you that. But realize that you pretty much just claimed yourself to have a hard heart.

LMAO!!!

Are you new to this planet or does this brilliant side come natural to you?

Yes I believe that. But if you cannot know anything about your past life. Then there is no certainty it exists. In fact, if you cannot know it, then why should you be punished for it? You were not that person.

You believe what?

Do you actually speak english?

This is what i said...
What in the hell are you talking about? Why would you be punished for your dreams? What do dreams have to do with reincarnation? You haven't been punished for your dreams because THEY WERE DREAMS... meaning not real

how did you come up with that answer to what i said?

Are you high?

How about this. Where in scripture is reincarnation mentioned?

How about this...

Talk to me when you're sober... or at least half sober ffs...

:shk:

reply to post by Akragon

Where are you getting this from? Who told you your dreams are your past lives? I've done supernatural things in my dreams... they are JUST dreams man... nothing backs dreams being your past lives, though i've heard of people having dreams of their past lives. Logic tells me if you're a superhero in your dream... it isn't real.

Logic dictates that God doesn't exist and that all of this is stupid. So you will have to forgive me if you go with the logic you are presenting.

If you know nothing of your past lives, then it is unjust and wrong to be punished for them. If people dream their past lives, then this indicates if you are true or not. Obviously if you're superman in your dream you are not looking at your past life. But if you vividly dream something hyper-real and go about things that you never saw, yet have knowledge of, it's safe to say you are dreaming a past life.

Now I reject this. I reject past lives, if you recall.

But if the only proof of past lives is dreams, then we are going to have to go deeper, to quote inception.

If you refuse to show scriptural proof of reincarnation, yet believe scripture, than you are more ignorant than most people here who actually believe the bible.

Fact: Nothing in scripture proves reincarnation.

Fact: Reincarnation cannot be applied to what Jesus taught, because reincarnation defeats the purpose of Jesus.

And in addition,

Fact: If you do not know who you were in the tense of past lives, it is absolutely ridiculous that you should be punished for them. Punishment for past lives is absolutely no different than killing Hitler's grandchildren because Hitler killed so many people. Because quite frankly, reincarnation is your own rebirth. And no different than being your own child.

So if a murderer turns away from his sins, and suddenly decides to "follow your path" (whatever that might be)
He will live... and hes all Good, no "eternal damnation" for him....

Is that correct?

For me, yes. In ancient Israel, yes. And in modern day, the law says you must pay. But there's no eternal damnation for a man who turns from himself and his evil ways.

Jesus said this. You will not be punished for your sins if you repent and turn away from them and sin no more.

So you didn't realize the brain grows as you grow? At least i understand....

If a part of the brain always becomes the same thing, it is safe to say that part of the brain evolved to do that.

If I remember the word Cat, it brings up a different signal and location in the brain than if you remember the word cat. Because we learned it differently. But if we both express hate, something you are born with, then the same locations of the brain light up.

So you're more then happy to judge an entire city... Im impressed... Why would a garbage dump be no different then "recalling something as hell in your past"?

Calling a place hell does not judge its people. It judges the place. It implies most people there are such a way. But that does not mean all were. If everyone was that way, then the place would be destroyed, according to the Bible.




So to conclude. You claim to follow Christ, but you pick and choose what. You claim to follow what he said, but refuse to follow the parts you disagree with. You have no proof for Reincarnation, and tell me to just believe you. And no scriptural proof to find it.


A hum....


HYPOCRITE.

reply to post by Gorman91

So to conclude. You claim to follow Christ, but you pick and choose what. You claim to follow what he said, but refuse to follow the parts you disagree with. You have no proof for Reincarnation, and tell me to just believe you. And no scriptural proof to find it.


A hum....


HYPOCRITE.

I didn't claim to follow Christ... i have no need to follow him, he walks with me every day of my life.

And i choose not to deal with your ignorance anymore on this thread.

It litterally BLEW MY MIND!!

something about pearls to swine... er some such

Have a nice day

reply to post by Akragon


Or you just don't have a way to back it up.

Tons of people claim to have someone walking by their side who's invisible. This is not proof of anything. We don't call those people sane where I come from.

What you call ignorance, I call logical thinking and making sense. I use the sources I have. Not my imagination and feelings.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Akragon

 

Or you just don't have a way to back it up.

What you call ignorance, I call logical thinking and making sense. I use the sources I have. Not my imagination and feelings.

What you call "logical thinking" i call idiocy...

but thats neither here nor there...

Im gonna leave now... before this gets out of hand.


Nighty night!!

reply to post by Akragon


Wow ... reading that was uhhh quite the ride.

I'm in the scary part of ATS again ...

ETA: Let me just process what I read ... okay done.

In all seriousness, I can't wait to contribute tomorrow after I get some sleep. Til then!

The concept of Hell was created by Dante Aligheri, and the Church adopted the ideas and themes of torture and hell fire as a means to scare people into 'being good'.
So I guess you are correct, though I don't think the threat of Hell is enough for many people any more.
And I guess someone can't go to Hell, if it was something made up in a poem hundreds of years ago, just someone's mental interpretation of what those words mean...

reply to post by Akragon


What's idiocy? What is getting out of hand?

You just said to show in scripture what I believe, I did. You refused to do the same and said it doesn't matter. The entire basis of this conversation was based off that however.

I called you to prove yourself and suddenly you are leaving. You have fulfilled your place of being proven wrong. You only need to admit that you are wrong, in terms of the Bible, and to each his own. I'm sorry if you feel this is getting out of hand. I am simply asking you to prove yourself. if you cannot, concede the conversation and admit you still have more to learn.

I have done the same earlier with the literalists in another thread because I don't understand pre-abrahamic timeline exactly in terms of the flood.

If you feel the need to abandon this conversation so be it. But don't say you are dealing with an idiot and don't want to bother to talk anymore. Say you are dealing with what you don't know or can't prove and leave. Simple as that. It's civil, and it's honest. And it's good sport.

If you felt threatened by this conversation, then I am sorry.

reply to post by Lulzaroonie


Hell and punishment predate Christianity, so I highly doubt that.

Originally posted by The Cusp
I think hell could exist in the brain as a section of negative archetypes or small section of neural network that is densely interconnected. The hell part would be all the negative archetypes that have lots of connections leading to each other, but with few connections leading out. So once you find yourself in it, it just loops over and over and you can't get out.

These would be rather basic clusters that aren't very complex, which would make lots of similarities between the individual hell realms of different people. These so called hell realms can be seen in various dreams, and in the work of Emmanuel Swedenbord and Rosemary Ellen Guiley.

It's possible the original religious concept was to avoid these self programmed cesspools in the mind but this goal was forgotten over time and only the principles remain.

Sorry man i didn't see your post in all the babble...

I don't know the authors(?) you're talking about but i actually believe something similar...

Belief is a very powerful thing...

Though hell does not exist.... i do believe IF... you have a strong belief is such a place.... Your actions in this life, combined with that belief "might" land you in such a place...

There is another member pocky... that post videos about peoples experiences with "hell"...

And though he had litterally 20+ threads on the topic.... He has yet to show a single one where some preconcieved notion of "hell" does not exist within that person...

IF you believe in "hell" your guilt might land you there....

Guilt is lack of forgiveness... From God and yourself...

21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

reply to post by Gorman91

If you feel the need to abandon this conversation so be it. But don't say you are dealing with an idiot and don't want to bother to talk anymore. Say you are dealing with what you don't know or can't prove and leave. Simple as that. It's civil, and it's honest. And it's good sport.

If you felt threatened by this conversation, then I am sorry.

I will be back tomorrow...

But know... i am in no way "threatened" by anything you've said. Though slightly insulted by this statement...

Bible calls such people idiots. I won't call you that. But realize that you pretty much just claimed yourself to have a hard heart.

I don't recall the word "idiot" anywhere within the bible.... this is called an insult.

Though you attempted to hide it...

Well done *clap*...............*clap*..............*clap*

I will continue dealing with you... only because you appoligize...

but check yourself... i don't take insults lightly... They are never needed...

I am not Jesus... i hit back when someone strikes me...

reply to post by Akragon


I was relaying the thing I thought you claimed to believe. Because yes, the word shows up.


I am simply asking you to prove what you believe from scripture, as you asked me.

Anything else makes you a hypocrite. And you have been displaying a superiority complex quite honestly. You still didn't admit you couldn't prove it in scripture. You just evaded and said it's irrelevant. Well yea sure, if you ignore parts of the scripture, you can justify anything from reincarnation, to mass murder.

I apologized, so admit you can't prove it.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by HillbillyHippie1

 

Anyone can tell this concept is crap. If this is a concept for control, why the hell isn't it working? Things seem pretty out of control to me.

edit on 2-1-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Laws and the threat/punishment of prison and the existence of death sentences are ALSO a form of control .. they are there to persuade you not to commit these crimes.. they aren't always successful either are they? it doesn't mean that's not why they are there.

Why do you view punishment as a form of control? The fear of prison does not stop me from killing someone but rather my heart knows that it is a sin. Likewise, the fear of prison doesn't stop me from stealing, but rather my heart prevents me from stealing. You can substitute sin for morally wrong.

God wrote His laws in the heart, and these pass down from generation to generation. Think of the difference between a person who never worries about going to prison because they do not break the law, and the person who commits a murder willingly DESPITE knowing the consequence of prison if caught. Neither is "controlled" by the possible outcome. They do what IS IN THEIR HEART. The murderer may still know that their crime was morally wrong OR they may not. The latter HAS NO MORAL CONSCIOUSNESS

The argument that hell is a control mechanism is simply in error. It is obviously NOT a control mechanism FOR IT IS A PUNISHMENT. Punishment is the result of judgement, whether it be in man's court or God's court.

I am subject to God's commandments for Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. I therefore know full well the consequences of judgement on my unrepented sins, but this does not include the fear of Hell because I am in the Book of Life and God promised me that He would keep me from that fate. It is therefore NOT control to a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

This "control mechanism" does not work on Christians who learn through God's love that only those who reject Jesus Christ as their Saviour are subject to eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire. That is the second death. Before that time, all not found in Jesus Christ go to Sheol/Hades which is equivalent to a graveyard of souls as far as I can tell so far.

Christians spread the word of the salvation offered by the Heavenly Father, and those who will accept it are already chosen by God to do so. Those who ultimately reject His Son also reject God. They are not of God.
But those who are known to God will eventually respond to His call and soon learn the overwhelming love that He has for us, as proven by His sending His only Begotten Son to REDEEM us from this world. I'm free for God loves me so.

Astral Hell constructs are quite real. The social control part, however, concerns you being told you have to go there.

Where you go depends on your cumulative mental/spiritual state in life, including what you've done. You can go to terrible Hells, orgasmic Heavens, or everywhere in between. It's completely up to you. The other point to remember, is that ultimately, none of them are real. They're virtual realities.

Originally posted by Myollinir
You guys are ridiculous. HAHAHA.

If you want to break it down, Hell is a means of controlling you at a very basis level, but it controls you to not be a bad person. If one actually didn't believe in the afterlife that the Christian Bible speaks of then you could technically do whatever you wanted to.

Oh, you mean Hell isn't real? So it's really okay that I cheat on my wife, look at pornography when I have a significant other, cheat, steal, kill, control other weakminded people for my advantage, curse at people who don't deserve it, AND be completely selfish my whole life? WOW I'm SO glad I'm not being controlled! I HAVE SO MUCH FREEDOM.

The Christian religion tries to keep benevolence living in the physical bodies of the Earth, and I suggest you pick it up once actually before you sit there and tell people they will be living in fear if they follow it.

Sheesh

Go away, you ignorant and brainwashed fu c k tard. I was caught up in that cult for many years before I finally managed to break free, I suggest you do the same.

You haven't got a clue about what freedom means.
Freedom is being able to do whatever you want, weather "good" or "evil". You are a slave, but of course, the best slaves are those who are not even aware that they are slaves.

Lemme ask you a question: would you kill your own son/daughter if he/she disobeyed you?
If the answeer is yes, then go back and worship Rex Mundi. After all, you are two of a kind.

During the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar II, of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar had a nine-story high statue, made of gold,[4] stand erect in the Plain of Dura[v.1] (The region around present day Karbala, Iraq).[5] The statue was either an image of himself or possibly of the Babylonian god of wisdom, known as Nabu.[6] When the project was complete, he prepared a dedication ceremony to this image ordering all surrounding inhabitants to bow down and worship it. The consequence for not worshiping the idol, upon hearing the cue of instruments, was execution in a fiery furnace.[v.2-9]

en.wikipedia.org...

Since some parts of christianity is influenced by paganism (Babylonian/sumerian) I'm not surprised they got the idea of punishment by burning from this story. Why wasn't hell made of ice? it's equally painful I believe.

reply to post by sallamy


Only the Catholics primarily have any sort of link to paganism, and at most, it's that they stole the dates and replaced a few gods with saints.

Everyone else is just as they have been for quite some time. I mean, the Syrian church never had much contact with pagans, yet has much similarity.



If I'm recalling correctly, India is where hell was first written about in words and made in art. This does not mean they were the first. Because nobody wrote things down to know who was first. Hell has been known to man since as far back as, presumably, 6000 BC when the earliest visions of it show up in some primitive art across a bunch of isolated cultures, indicating that it had been an oral tradition for much longer before that.


The reason for fire is it's natural qualities of rebirth. That which freezes can never return to life. That which burns is purified and not only that, but promotes new life.