Things I Have Learned From The Bible

reply to post by Zeer0


We agree that some religions and myths predate the bible. Where we don't agree is the fact that has no archeological proof.

So because there is a Pagan belief that predates the bible does not prove that the current Pagan story predates the bible. In fact if you do the research we simply do not have archeological evidence for any of the stories from the older religions that can be dated to the origin of the religion.

So I conclude that it is the other religions that adopted the stories from both the Jews and Christians into their religions after they had been heard by the followers of these other religions. And since we have no evidence that they did not do this than what I say is every bit as probable as the claim you make.

And because the Holy Spirit has changed my life and I have been able to change in ways that were not possible by my power I can know for certain that what I say is true.

Only God can prove to you that what I say is true, but you would have to have faith in him before he could do that.

reply to post by sacgamer25


The reason i have a problem with Christianity is that it teaches people to go against Rational Thinking, has caused alot of death and makes people really arrogant and it turns out that there is no Evidence that anything in the Bible is Factual.

reply to post by Zeer0

Do you have any Evidence of God? (4th time ive asked this in this thread)

My friend, Blessed is he who has not seen yet still believes. Throughout history many many religions have killed many many people and none have learned that this is against the laws of their own religions.

When you found out that Christianity was a hoax, why did that turn you so bitter against it? Can you not accept that there are those who need religion? Down through the ages mankind has had a need to believe in something bigger and better than himself because it is difficult for mankind even now to accept that there is nothing upon death and that we are judged not in the afterlife but now for our deeds.

Beware also the Atheist who treats his Atheism as a religion. This is just an alternative crutch. I believe you run the danger of falling into that trap. The true Atheist has a lack of belief in any God and not a belief that there is no God. You cannot fight religion, any religion. You can accept that people have choices and many choose to believe in a higher being and an afterlife often because they are unable to come to terms with their own mortality.

Don't be so hard on them. Just accept that they have their way and you have yours and neither side needs to fight the other but all should live in peace and harmony. They are not wrong, and neither are you.

Religion is personal and should not be treated as some political party. It is acceptable to tell people of your faith, or lack, but it is not acceptable to attempt to force others to follow.

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So not believing in God makes me wicked? How does that make me any less of a person than you? Thats just arrogance. But i'll brush it off because Christians like you are why there is no place for Religion. It creates arrogance and it has certainly blossomed in you.

Take Care.

I don't believe that anyone doesn't believe in God. However from a philosophical standpoint anyone who does not believe in God has in a sense made themselves God. By doing this you have separated yourself from God and in a very real way rejected him. If you reject him he will reject you, there is no other interpretation from Christianity or any other religion that I am aware of.

I pray that you can come to grips with something that you already know. Accepting that God is real is the first step towards him. He simply can’t enter into a heart that refuses to accept him. This is proof that you have free will, but I pray that you use this will to form a relationship with a father, God, who loves you.

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

The reason i have a problem with Christianity is that it teaches people to go against Rational Thinking, has caused alot of death and makes people really arrogant and it turns out that there is no Evidence that anything in the Bible is Factual.

You are correct Christianity has lead to much hate. But the bible is not the foundation for any of the hate that you see.

To be honest now that I understand the bible if myself or one of my children were drafted into war I would tell them to go to prison because it is not God’s will for us to fight. It is only his will for us to love each other.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Dude what is your Education Level? (no offense)

Christianity takes its stories from Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian and Pagan Mythologies all predating Christianity.

Adam and Eve has taken its theme and story from Pandora's Box

Flood Story/Moses Birth: Many other cultures/Moses birth is clearly taken from the Birth of Sargon of Akkad

Crucifixion, Afterlife, Final Judgement, Law Givers/10 Commandments, Flood Myths, Resurrection even the Christian day of worship is taken from other Mythology etc, etc...

Do the research and you'll find that out.

Dead Wrong.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I don't believe that anyone doesn't believe in God. However from a philosophical standpoint anyone who does not believe in God has in a sense made themselves God.

Not so if you have a lack of belief in any God you have not and cannot in any sense make yourself God as no such being can exist. There is no concept of God.

By doing this you have separated yourself from God and in a very real way rejected him. If you reject him he will reject you, there is no other interpretation from Christianity or any other religion that I am aware of.

Again not so. Only in your perception has the person separated themselves from God. The person who has no belief has not done so because there is no separation possible as God is not even a concept.

I appreciate however that it is difficult for those who feel a need to believe in someone higher than themselves to understand this.

This is proof that you have free will

Quite the opposite actually.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Also...

God hates fags

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Atleast provide some Tangible Evidence that points to the Existence of God.

Im sure we exist, i can see and feel my keyboard, my sister and mother. I know they exist but God is something different. If God does exist he has certainly created a World that clearly Debunks its own Existence of such things Exist. For all the things the Bible claims all of them can either be seen in older Mythology and is Debunked by lack of Evidence and Logic for that matter.

I am sure we exist also. But at the same time, I know within myself that something exists beyond my own experience, But do you exist only because you believe you do? Your mother, sister and you all exist because you have experienced it, and yet they do not exist in my experience.

Even if you brought them to my house and presented them to me, then they exist in my experience but who they are to you is something I cannot experience. God exists above and beyond all that we could ever experience here, we only have what we know. I accept that God is bigger than the universe, God is greater than our understanding and God does exist tangibly, but we are so minute, God can't be see by us.

Think about this, you stand in front of a tree and you know that tree exists because you can see the bark and the leaves. But if you stand in front of a tree that is so humongous that the bark engulfs you and the leaves disappear beyond your eyesight, do you still perceive it as a tree?

You have been engulfed in the shadow of the bark and you can't touch the bark because you are so minute, but you accept it as a tree because someone told you that is what it is. That is the thing about a vast universe, we only inhabit a small, tiny, minute fraction of a fraction of a fraction of it. The fractions are endless and the universe is so great that we can only see those things within our close vision. God is beyond our close vision, God is not minute as you and I are.

I rather enjoyed the hook up ones. Thanks for the laugh!

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Also...

God hates fags

Again I do not follow their religion I follow the bible. I do believe that gay relationships don’t follow the natural laws and because this I don’t condone them. But you see I am a sinner just like everyone else. God loved while I was still a sinner, the bible teaches me to love everyone, brother, friend and enemy. So I love everyone, each one is accountable to God and I am only accountable for myself and maybe in some way for my children. I do not judge anyone, for I do not take the thrown that does not belong to me.

Originally posted by Gorman91
I rather enjoyed the hook up ones. Thanks for the laugh!

They only lead to trouble.....

reply to post by PuterMan


I suppose I will agree that we are both right. But I still don't believe God is a liar when he says this.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse (Romans 1:19, 20).

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Dude what is your Education Level? (no offense)

Christianity takes its stories from Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian and Pagan Mythologies all predating Christianity.

Adam and Eve has taken its theme and story from Pandora's Box

Flood Story/Moses Birth: Many other cultures/Moses birth is clearly taken from the Birth of Sargon of Akkad

Crucifixion, Afterlife, Final Judgement, Law Givers/10 Commandments, Flood Myths, Resurrection even the Christian day of worship is taken from other Mythology etc, etc...

Do the research and you'll find that out.

I have done the research and there is no proof that the stories outside of flood predate the bible. But you see the flood itself predates the bible so it is not hard to believe that stories of the flood predate the bible.

If I told you that Greek Mythology predates America. Then I provide you with a Greek Myth that proves that the constitution was stolen from Greek Mythology, would you not expect me to provide proof that the Myth actually predates the constitution?

So you see I am very intelligent and my grade level has very little to do with my ability to reason. I am simply asking for proof that the stories predate the bible, which simply no one can provide.

The reality is we have biblical manuscripts that predate nearly all of the supposed myths that the bible stole from. So if the bible came before the myth it is likely the myth did not exist until after the bible. My reasoning is actually quite sound. For you believe something without proof but I believe something based on the proof.

reply to post by Zeer0


You know, in the bible, you're suppose to have sanction cities for them to safely leave. And you are suppose to walk them out while talking to them. Death was for those whom broke the law and refused to leave.


But here's the kicker. We're not ancient Israel. That pretty much nullifies everything outside your own life. If you don't follow the full law, then don't rule by half it to fit your own interpretations.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Zeer0

 

You know, in the bible, you're suppose to have sanction cities for them to safely leave. And you are suppose to walk them out while talking to them. Death was for those whom broke the law and refused to leave.


But here's the kicker. We're not ancient Israel. That pretty much nullifies everything outside your own life. If you don't follow the full law, then don't rule by half it to fit your own interpretations.

You are right, there are cities of sanctuary. And the law was so specific in who could be punished, it took at least three verifiable witnesses who lived moral lives above reproach. If there were two, they could be accepted only if the third could not be found. And if there was only one witness, but that witness was not a good person, then the accused could go free.

So it was not like people were just willy-nilly stoning people to death over every little thing, it had to be proven and it had to verified by witnesses.

reply to post by Zeer0


I don't agree with that and honestly what's up with Pandora's box and that? I get how the apple could be the box. But that's like saying the fact that Osiris rose from the dead makes him Jesus. Nothing is really similar between the two besides Resurrection. I mean, if you can find a part of the Bible where Jesus goes on a global hunt for his man parts and his lover made him a new one out of wood, be my guess.




Furthermore, it's practically impossible to isolate the true origin of myths to before classical Greece circa post Mycenaean muck ups. This is because by that time, ALL peoples of the world already had similar myths. In order for your claims to be true, we would have to here about older myths and identify motifs and common parallels. But we cannot. because History gets blurry on the story telling areas before the Greeks started writing them down.

2000 years is perfectly enough time for anyone to have created the myths and kept them in circulation. But to say that because everyone has similar stories means that the story is a rip off is nothing short of a lie and, to be honest, a cheap attempt as proving the bible wrong.

If the Bible IS to be believed, then that would obviously mean its origins would be older than 2000 BC. And this is an assumption, because we have no way to know.

We have no idea if a Greek playwright heard a myth while traveling to Arabia, and made up a story about Osiris based off it when he visited Egypt. We have no way to know if The Egyptians started the idea of heaven and brought the idea to Arabia during one of their many campaigns of killing everyone there. We have no idea if, perhaps, all these stories come from India and are from a very very, pre 4000 BC mythos storyline.



That's the point. We don't know. And therefore, without any sort of data, you have no more right to call Christianity ripping them off then I do to say that they read the story and ripped them off the verbal origins of the Bible.


And to be honest, if these works are divinely inspired, then that would mean it could very well be taken from Persian and Egyptian origins. BUT that those origins were based off what was true and God was relaying back to them, like a teacher telling his class what the original phrase in a game of telephone was, and by chance, one student re-created it.


Point is, we do not know. Thus, it is a null case.


If anything, the fact that these myths consistently show up across multiple cultures broadly separated from each other makes me believe that there is some spiritual force making mankind rediscover them over and over again.

I mean, for all we know, this is true:



The point of the matter is this. Weather you like it or not, these myths are at least as old as 6000 BC, and possibly 12,000 BC if gobekli tepe is to be believed to be the same myth.

That's a very very very strange circulation age, considering the fact that humans usually create myths that last, at most, 200-800 years.

reply to post by Gorman91


Gorman, I know that people tend to say the Bible was originally in Hebrew, yet the original language was Ugartic, a Semitic language of the area of southern Syria. That does not mean the Bible is not correct, because those people who translated the Bible lived under penalty of death if they got one word wrong.

The scribe was the most important person in the ancient world, actually more important than priests because they had to interpret not only religious material but government material as well. What is amazing to me is the way events in the ancient world have a common thread. Israel had the writings long before David came to the throne and long before Moses climbed up the backside of the mountain in Midian.

Abraham heard the voice of God in the place full of idolatry. This voice was so different and told him to go to a place he had never been, in search of a promise of descendancy. That proves God could not have been a mere Canaanite god, because Abraham was not in Canaan when he heard it. And because it was different than the Chaldean pantheon, it proves God was not from there. Abraham went on to Egypt, and that particular pharaoh knew God because he was worried God would kill him if he married Sarah. So there seems to be some understanding in Egypt of God, yet Moses did not know Him at all in Egypt and God revealed Himself to Moses in Midian. We might like to assume God was a Midianite God.

However, when Moses asked whom it was that sent him back to Egypt, God said "Tell them I Am sent you". This was the first time God revealed Himself in that manner and since the Midianites did not worship I AM, that means God was not a local god for them. When Moses got back into Egypt, the pharaoh said he did not know the God of Moses, meaning at that time, I AM was not a part of Egyptian mythology.

Joshua told the people of Israel, of which they did exist as a people because too many steles in Egypt contain the name Israel as a people, that they could choose to worship the gods of their fathers before the flood. The words Joshua says are "your fathers" so that indicates to me that Joshua was not from them but knew their gods before the flood. He told them they had a choice and they chose Yaweh. This was the covenant with them.

Joshua fully embraced Yaweh, even though Joshua never indicated it was part of Egyptian mythology that Moses and the Pharaoh both received education under. If Yaweh is merely a Semitic name, then He is understood by at least one pharaoh. But that one pharaoh is not the source of mythology because by that time, mythology of Egypt was in place.

Joshua referenced the flood before the books of the Bible were written so the flood was known at that time. Joseph had gone into Egypt and married a woman whose father was a priest in the cult of On, and his name was changed to Zaphthania, and embraced Egyptian culture to the point he had his father embalmed.

But even then, this God Almighty was known throughout the ancient world, predating mythologies of the cultures. Nimrod built his tower to get to heaven, and the god he wanted to be like was the Almighty God. This was before Ur became a city.

What we end up with is this, God was known to the ancients before mythologies developed. Some people decided they wanted to be god and named themselves as living gods. God was understood in the native languages but only one group of people chose to enter into covenant with Him. Mythologies arose when people wanted to be deified, and the only way to do that was to convince people they carried the particular aspects.

Paul debates with the Greeks on Mars Hill "I saw an inscription to the Unknown God, whom you ignorantly worship, I will now explain Him to you" and then referenced the Greek poems about God. The Greeks knew about God before their mythology developed, but they did not understand Him. They worshiped God, but without understanding. They were not in covenant with Him.

reply to post by sacgamer25


You obviously havent done a lick of Research to back up any of your claims. Do your research before you try to argue a point.

Flood Myth