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Things I Have Learned From The Bible

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posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Your argument is very invalid in the Fact that the Egyptian,Greek,Babylonian and Pagan Religions predated Christianity and the stories in the Bible are very similar and you have yet to provide any Evidence to refute that. Until you do so my argument stands.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Zeer0 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Zeer0
 


The only reason you would say that is if you didn't actually read what I say.


So...


I repeat.

If the Bible is true, it must inherently begin with the beginning of the human species.

Thus there is no means to prove what predates what, because all of these were already in existence verbally when these things started getting recorded.


Now next time you call something invalid do yourself the favor of actually reading it.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by Gorman91
 


Your argument is very invalid in the Fact that the Egyptian,Greek,Babylonian and Pagan Religions predated Christianity and the stories in the Bible are very similar and you have yet to provide any Evidence to refute that. Until you do so my argument stands.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Zeer0 because: (no reason given)

Israel also predated Christianity and coexisted with Egyptians, Greeks, Babylonians...
...a Babylonian king even wrote one chapter of the Old Testament bible.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by Zeer0
 


I said the flood story predated the bible why would you link me to that. Considering there was at least 800 years between the flood and Moses receiving the Torah it would make since that the real event was recorded by someone prior to Moses.

As for the other stories that you claim the bible steals from there is no archeological evidence that the stories predate the bible. To add to that most of the stories are not nearly as similar as you and others claim.

Again I did not come to faith blindly I came to faith reaserching the claims against the bible. Very much the same as Lee Strobel did in "The Case For Christ"



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by Gorman91
 


Your argument is very invalid in the Fact that the Egyptian,Greek,Babylonian and Pagan Religions predated Christianity and the stories in the Bible are very similar and you have yet to provide any Evidence to refute that. Until you do so my argument stands.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Zeer0 because: (no reason given)


To be honest our faith is complete, we don't need to prove our faith is complete. Our arguments alone prove this. You are the one trying to disprove our faith so the proof is really something that you need to provide. We have given sound arguments against your opinion, but you choose to believe what cannot be proven.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


These stories are found on scrolls, tablets, and walls all of which are older than Christianity. You don't have to be a genius to know that Egyptian, Greek and Pagan Mythology predates Christianity. Learn about History before you state such falsehoods.

edit on 2-1-2012 by Zeer0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Zeer0
 


You say this but continue refusing to face the reality.

JUDAISM IS OLDER THAN CHRISTIANITY.

That is what makes everything you say irrelevant, for the origins of them are oral. Oral is not written down.

Not written down = anything possible.


It is not physically possible to tell the age of a myth prior to the Roman time period. For before the Romans began reinventing them to their own designs, ALL of them were oral, and therefore unknown in origin.

India could have invented them first. Abraham, maybe Egypt. Maybe a drunk and high lost Celtic. It is impossible to know.

BECAUSE IT WAS NOT WRITTEN DOWN TO BE DATED
edit on 2-1-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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The following link shows a chart of the chronology outlined in the biblical manuscripts...



...the following civilizations arose during the lifetime of Noah...

1. Phoenicea aka Sumeria or Canaan
2. Mizraim - Egypt XI Dynasty
3. Chaldea - Ur was the capital and Abraham came from here.
4. Greece (Attica, Arcadia, Sparta)
5. China - 1st Hiah Dynasty.

...Abraham lived in the household of Noah when he was a boy.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by troubleshooter
 


I mean if you MUST go literal, and assume the flood somewhere in 2300 BC. ( I think I am right in saying the following) It's worthy to note that there are no complete or well preserved pyramids from this time period, and that after it, pyramids weren't really attempted ever again in any significant level. It's also right around a huge, sudden change in culture of Egypt.


Of course, if you can say why the older pyramids remained untouched, that's your own discretion.


Of course also, I'm not exactly convinced the flood happened any time in the last 10,000 years.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


I mean if you MUST go literal, and assume the flood somewhere in 2300 BC. ( I think I am right in saying the following) It's worthy to note that there are no complete or well preserved pyramids from this time period, and that after it, pyramids weren't really attempted ever again in any significant level. It's also right around a huge, sudden change in culture of Egypt.


Of course, if you can say why the older pyramids remained untouched, that's your own discretion.


Of course also, I'm not exactly convinced the flood happened any time in the last 10,000 years.

I am not sure what you mean by 'literal' ...
...while the various manuscripts are written in different genre they where written in historical contexts...
...and careful examination of them reveal a timeline...
...there are some differences in timelines but the time periods don't differ that much.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Nope, women are usually easy to blame when it comes to events in the bible though.


That's because pagan religions revered the female so of course the church had to demote and demonise females as well. Even looking at religious paintings females are on the left and that attitude has been passed down to anyone who goes against the flow or is seen as extreme is 'left wing". If there was a real Jesus, and I'm inclined to think there was though not of a supernatural nature, Mary Magdalene would have been his lover and would have had he's ear putting her in a position of influence. So of course the church demotes her to a mere prostitute.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


You also should have learn that Gays should be killed, Disobedient teens should be killed, people who work on Sabbath day should be killed, killing in the name of your God is justified even though it clearly says not to in the 10 Commandments. Need i say more?


That's right along the lines of what i was thinking.

I don't understand people that live by some parts of the bible but completely ignore others.

What has religion ever done for us though?

Nothing but division among the people of earth.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I think there's some great literature in the bible; it's a decent read for such an old manuscript and the author did a good job considering the era in which it was created. I enjoy some of the philosophies within, even if they're not entirely original, but, like any philosophy or any system of belief, it's made to be destroyed and built upon. When a castle is destroyed, its stones and mortar can still be used to build a new and better castle (paraphrasing Nietzsche I think).

The bible has value as building material towards bigger and better philosophic systems

The Bible is a decent stepping stone to start building your own philosophic system. Sadly, most people stop there without any criticism, re-designing or refinement of it, and it becomes stale and eventually unusable.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Thats a huge if. But i like to live in the World of Reality.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by troubleshooter
 


And you know these people Existed how? My honest opinion is when you look at the Evidence of the Tradition of passed down Mythology you can only assume that the writers of the Bible tried to Historize these events and make them Fact but in reality its just stolen Mythology.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Ok.....and the Egyptian and Greek Mythology even predate Judaism. Im not sure about Paganism though.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by PuterMan
ATS I am disgusted! This behaviour should stop now. I am not a Christian but I thought the analogies applied to each of the biblical characters very good.

Time some of you people learned to live and let live and see the good in others instead of being mean and nasty just because something is not your 'bag'


I agree 100% with you here. Wasn't going to check out this thread seeing as i'm not very religous, but am very spiritual. As a pantheist I feel freedom of religion is a basic human right and so long as it's practiced in a maner that is non-harmfull to anyone or anything is fine. Organized religion has it's place, it's when others try to force there beliefs on someone is where I draw the line. The OP did nothing of the sort, in fact I liked how it was presented in a that even someone as non religous as me could make sense of it.

To everyone who is attacking the OP because of his/her beliefs just need to chill out. The OP has faith in a religion, I have faith in humanity and science yet we can still be nice to one another. I'm sure the OP would show me the same respect if I started a thread about my beliefs... To anyone who is trying to sway the OP I will point back to my statement about forcing beliefs on others...



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by Gorman91
 


Ok.....and the Egyptian and Greek Mythology even predate Judaism. Im not sure about Paganism though.


Moses merely established the organization of Judaism, but the beliefs of Judaism he did not create. You have to remember, the people of Israel were in Egypt 400 years, and they did become slaves and lived in the area known as Goshen.

Goshen happens to be the same area where Joseph ruled as Vizier of the Pharaoh. And we will not find any tomb or pyramid built for Joseph, because his bones were carried out of Egypt. But Jacob was embalmed according to the Egyptian rites. Joseph was married to the daughter of a priest of the cult of On.

Jacob did not at any time say he followed the Egyptian mythology and nothing is attributed to any belief in those gods. Even his wife Rachel stole an idol belonging to her father, it was a house idol, and Jacob indicates that nothing he believes about the Almighty God is remotely connected to those idols. The systems of tradition and culture were different, because Laban remarks to Jacob at switching the daughters so Jacob would be married to Leah first "As it is the custom among us".

Abraham worshiped Almighty God, as it was different than the Chaldean system. Isaac worshiped as Abraham did as well did Jacob. So the people of Israel were in Egypt 400 years and they were never assimilated culturally or religiously. In those 400 years, they seem to not have any religious leaders among them, but when Moses asks God who sent him, God says "tell them I AM sent you". This was something only they would remember and know. Pharaoh says "I don't know this God of yours" after Moses asks if they can be released to go into the desert to pray to God. Pharaoh makes it clear that within Egyptian mythology, this I AM is not founded on it, nor is it a part of the mythology. The worship of I AM goes back beyond Abraham.

In fact, the Greek historian Herodotus accounts in Book II, that the Egyptians and Greeks had different religions. And the Bible recounts that the father-in-law of Joseph was a priest in the cult of On. Why would the Bible tell us that? Because it is historical and allows us to understand who was who in those days.

Some archeologists are proposing that Joseph was Imhotep.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by JAY1980

Originally posted by PuterMan
ATS I am disgusted! This behaviour should stop now. I am not a Christian but I thought the analogies applied to each of the biblical characters very good.

Time some of you people learned to live and let live and see the good in others instead of being mean and nasty just because something is not your 'bag'


I agree 100% with you here. Wasn't going to check out this thread seeing as i'm not very religous, but am very spiritual. As a pantheist I feel freedom of religion is a basic human right and so long as it's practiced in a maner that is non-harmfull to anyone or anything is fine. Organized religion has it's place, it's when others try to force there beliefs on someone is where I draw the line. The OP did nothing of the sort, in fact I liked how it was presented in a that even someone as non religous as me could make sense of it.

To everyone who is attacking the OP because of his/her beliefs just need to chill out. The OP has faith in a religion, I have faith in humanity and science yet we can still be nice to one another. I'm sure the OP would show me the same respect if I started a thread about my beliefs... To anyone who is trying to sway the OP I will point back to my statement about forcing beliefs on others...


You have gotten the idea of what I was posting. Nothing in my subsequent posts indicated any dogmatic creeds, but rather, I tried to place it within an historical context to understand what was going on the minds of those people and then how to apply those lessons within our time frame.

Someone tried to post the story of Pandora's box, but did not explain the moral lesson learned from it. I would like to know what people learn and how what we learn is part of our defined worldview. It is an insight into our own psyche and we can understand who we are and what should be changed within us.

I think our first response of what we interpret is the most natural about what is inside us. For instance, my statement about Job means that I have identified with this particular aspect of the story, but someone else got something entirely different in their interpretation. Neither of us were wrong, but we just viewed it a little different.

When I was young, my father's favorite show was Kung Fu. The only lesson I took from that show is this "you may now leave, grasshopper".



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Zeer0
 


We agree that some religions and myths predate the bible. Where we don't agree is the fact that has no archeological proof.

So because there is a Pagan belief that predates the bible does not prove that the current Pagan story predates the bible. In fact if you do the research we simply do not have archeological evidence for any of the stories from the older religions that can be dated to the origin of the religion.

So I conclude that it is the other religions that adopted the stories from both the Jews and Christians into their religions after they had been heard by the followers of these other religions. And since we have no evidence that they did not do this than what I say is every bit as probable as the claim you make.

And because the Holy Spirit has changed my life and I have been able to change in ways that were not possible by my power I can know for certain that what I say is true.

Only God can prove to you that what I say is true, but you would have to have faith in him before he could do that.

edit on 1-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)


Not quite true. Abraham grew up in the city of Ur which is a Sumerian city. Abraham was a sumerian and sumerians practiced idolatry and Abraham himself practiced idol worship until he decided worshipping inanimate objects was full of crap and he sought out the Living God instead. Then he ran through his father Terah's house and destroyed all Terah's idols.

The Sumerian religion of Zoarastrianism is heavily linked to the bible, the difference between the two is the bible accurately depicts who the anunnaki truly were...Fallen Ones (fallen angels) who had sex with humans and created the bastardized 6 fingered nephilim that almost destroyed the original man completely. Noah was the only man Yah could find that was "pure in his generations" (genetically pure) and untainted by the blood of the Fallen.




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