Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

its amazing how many people say that they have been touched by the holy spirit do not answer the simple question with a simple answer.

Oh, okay, I get it. It was a "fill-in-the-blank-with-one-word" question, and I failed. Oh well.

reply to post by wildtimes

The hate is coming from you. For trying to encourage you to read the ancient writings that will tell you the REAL Truth. But really, now, we have nothing left to discuss. Your mind is firmly closed and you are frightened of finding out that perhaps you don't know all there is behind your chosen path. Mine remains open, and accepting of all paths. Goodnight dear.

*sighs*.. because I don't wish to be swayed by you.. you perceive it as hate?..c;mon wildtimes.. can't you see how foolish that sounds.

I have no hate for you..none at all.. I just simply don't agree with what you say about Christ.

I am not frightened ..I know where salvation lays.

I have said you have the right to believe what you want over and over..but clearly you do not give me the same freedom..how sad.

I will continue to pray for you..in love..

reply to post by gabby2011

I will continue to pray for you..in love..

Thanks.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by gabby2011

 

I will continue to pray for you..in love..

Thanks.

You're welcome

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


I agree with you completely, but I would not call Wildtimes a false profit. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Wildtimes is running around trying to be an evangelist. I think Wild is simply trying to defend an opinion and have others accept the right to that opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Remember we will be judged by our actions. Faith without actions is like having no faith at all.

Myself I believe I am being asked to spread the good news. And I do believe that Jesus is the Christ. The flesh and blood son of the living God.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by vogon42

 

is Jesus Christ (YAHUSHUA) Lord?

edit on 24-12-2011 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by gabby2011

Your correct.. I shouldn't have said everyone.. just you were complaining in one of your recent posts about all the hate that is flung your way.. when in reality it is you who perceives it as such.

In reality some of us simply just don't agree with you.

The hate is coming from you. For trying to encourage you to read the ancient writings that will tell you the REAL Truth.
But really, now, we have nothing left to discuss. Your mind is firmly closed and you are frightened of finding out that perhaps you don't know all there is behind your chosen path.

Mine remains open, and accepting of all paths. Goodnight dear.

I noticed you referencing ancient writings. This has been my passion for the last 20 years. My favorites are the Dhammapada, Discouses and Poetry of Rumi and Confucius. I based my first book on the wisdom of Confucius. As for transmigration of the soul, you find this veiled in the scriptures but open in Eastern writing. There is good reason for this. The trade routes opened up the wisdom of Egypt and surrounding nations to the Eastern nations. People don't recognize Israel as being Eastern but it is. Eastern wisdom is purely based on concrete things. Western thought is purely based on abstract. God was clever when he gave us His word. The expression of the word is abstract in Western thinking but concrete in Eastern. This is for a reason.

The paradox is this: Eastern thought is based on the concrete and literal world. This renders it neutral to full truth. Most of what is received from Eastern thinking is one perspective of the mysteries. The Bible is written in abstracts. This allows the mind to find more meaning form the symbolism. The key to unlocking the symbolism is the Eastern literal truth. Until the two meet, there is no full understanding. Pride keeps the two apart. Witness this pride here in this thread. The two of you have been arguing about this and you both fail to see the excluded middle.

Wiletimes is concrete. Gabby2011 is abstarct.

When all things are examined, as I have tried to do my entire life, one very sold truth emerges. The Bible is the root and thread of all that swirls around it. The clearest revelation we have is found in the Bible, but locked in symbol and parable. The literal view is only the surface. Most people run from this surface meaning. We need to understand that the ocean is more than the surface and waves.

A train engineer and a friend argue about the facts of the train whistle. The engineer says the whistle does not change pitch. The friend on the porch says it does. Who is correct? If we know about the Doppler Effect, both are correct. It all depends on frame of reference and point of view.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I agree with you completely, but I would not call Wildtimes a false profit. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Wildtimes is running around trying to be an evangelist. I think Wild is simply trying to defend an opinion and have others accept the right to that opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Remember we will be judged by our actions. Faith without actions is like having no faith at all.

Myself I believe I am being asked to spread the good news. And I do believe that Jesus is the Christ. The flesh and blood son of the living God.

In the Garden story, man fell because of pride over knowledge. The fruit of knowledge was offered as a gift, but man made the choice to take this knowledge. Taking reveals a debt and is the result of pride. God know best, not man. As a result, God said that man would toil on the earth to eat. Eating is representative of knowledge. Remember, pride is the issue. If a person clings to a fixed mindset, Christian or not, they are working from a platform of pride. They are really saying, my wisdom is over yours. The only way to get past this is to value the reception of knowledge as a gift in humility. Pride causes blindness. Seeking wisdom and truth from humility, apart from bias against God, reveals truth.

God placed a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. This is a symbol for His consuming fire. Wildtimes, as well as all of us, will experience this consuming fire burning us as we produce bias from our pride. Anger and prejudice are revealed by pride. We are instructed in the Bible to overcome this pride.

In the end, this thread is answered by allowing us to overcome our pride against the other person. Judge not lest ye be judged. Truth can stand on its own. Clinging to truth is not child abuse. Only the hands of mankind can produce this from pride. Humility makes room for love.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I usually agree with everything you post. Here I also agree with you. The only thing that stumps me is that so many people have been turned away from Christianity by Christians who don't understand the message, but insist on condemning others to hell.

Based on what you have posted I believe that you also realize that none of the knowledge you have can be claimed as righteousness. You must also realize that knowledge is a gift from God, one that no one can claim as their own. It is this understanding that helps keep one free from pride. I know that as I am a sinner I have done nothing to deserve this gift, so knowing this I feel fully humbled and responsible to spread what I have been given freely.

Somehow I can’t help but feeling that we are entering into a time where more Christians will understand the message of Christ and the Church will again become a living example of Christ. An example that everyone will be witness to. An example where it will be impossible, had their hearts not already been hardened, to ignore the faith of the believers and the will of God being done on earth through the humble believer.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Actually i believe we are entering an age where people are slowly realizing the bible isn't the word of God...

Church assemblies will slowly fade to nothing... and the world will learn that relgion isn't the way to peace, though the words of Jesus are... and many will also realize that as well.

This is the age of knowledge... it spreads through the world through the new means of communication. Now people can see the faults/errors within the bible without the threat of being murdered or worse.

People are slowly waking up to reality... And reality is, religion is not Gods way.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I usually agree with everything you post. Here I also agree with you. The only thing that stumps me is that so many people have been turned away from Christianity by Christians who don't understand the message, but insist on condemning others to hell.

Based on what you have posted I believe that you also realize that none of the knowledge you have can be claimed as righteousness. You must also realize that knowledge is a gift from God, one that no one can claim as their own. It is this understanding that helps keep one free from pride. I know that as I am a sinner I have done nothing to deserve this gift, so knowing this I feel fully humbled and responsible to spread what I have been given freely.

Somehow I can’t help but feeling that we are entering into a time where more Christians will understand the message of Christ and the Church will again become a living example of Christ. An example that everyone will be witness to. An example where it will be impossible, had their hearts not already been hardened, to ignore the faith of the believers and the will of God being done on earth through the humble believer.

I think you are correct. The message will be animated shortly when need arises. The world will soon be plunged into a chaos that has not been seen in history. Faith will quickly become fact. The message will be enlivened like never before. Despite this, there will still be those who will curse God. I think what we are doing here is planting seeds. Places like this will be searched for truth when it is needed and the time is right.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Actually i believe we are entering an age where people are slowly realizing the bible isn't the word of God...

Church assemblies will slowly fade to nothing... and the world will learn that relgion isn't the way to peace, though the words of Jesus are... and many will also realize that as well.

This is the age of knowledge... it spreads through the world through the new means of communication. Now people can see the faults/errors within the bible without the threat of being murdered or worse.

People are slowly waking up to reality... And reality is, religion is not Gods way.

I think you know by now what I will say and also know that what I say is only out of love, but I will say it anyway. Just to make sure we continue to have a healthy respect for each other’s views.

Some of what you say is the same as what I am saying. I agree that organized religion as it stands in its current form is not the way.

But to say the bible, both the words of Christ and Paul, is responsible for today’s version of organized religion is not true. It is not the bible itself that has been manipulated, twisted and polluted; it is the Churches interpretation and abuse of scripture that is at fault. Both Christ and Paul’s vision of the Church was much simpler, more humble, and one that focused solely on scripture and the 2nd commandment.

I have faith in a loving God and because of that I can only come to one conclusion; he loved me and all of us enough to give us a single reference to guide our lives to him.

I know you have serious problems with the Old Testament, but I find it to be a necessary step in the spiritual evolution of man. Man had to reject God many times, and out of love God had to allow us to reject him. This rejection is what lead to the fall of man and what you see taking place in the Old Testament. If not for learning this history we may suffer the same fate and reject God.

So through my faith I believe that indeed God did love me enough to provide a single reference point intact and capable of delivering the message to salvation.

I still believe with all my heart that someday you will see what I see in the Old Testament and you will understand that God’s plan is perfect and each step was necessary. God’s plan leads us to his will, which is love.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Actually i believe we are entering an age where people are slowly realizing the bible isn't the word of God...

Church assemblies will slowly fade to nothing... and the world will learn that relgion isn't the way to peace, though the words of Jesus are... and many will also realize that as well.

This is the age of knowledge... it spreads through the world through the new means of communication. Now people can see the faults/errors within the bible without the threat of being murdered or worse.

People are slowly waking up to reality... And reality is, religion is not Gods way.

Have you read my article on the Physics of God?

I only shed light on the obvious by connecting current theory to what the Bible says. What a person finds is astonishing. I encourage you to view the evidence. The very first verse of the Bible proclaims the truth that only appeared when Einstein noticed it recently. God stated it form verse one.

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Light is Quanta in physics. Quanta makes up the duality of particle and wave. Light is both. This is the measurement problem in physics. Apart from an observer, the wave of light is not collapsed. Did God state this somewhere in the Bible? What is the Word? John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

The Trinity can be easily seen by these three. Father (Light / God), Son (Wave / Law / Word) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). We are baptized into the material world of water as a projection of the Trinity. We are a body (particle and wave / Matter) and we are animated by Spirit (Consciousness). We are one person, yet the three from the Trinity. God is one person, yet projects Himself into our reality as the Three persons of the Trinity.

How is this accomplished?

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

The same way it is accomplished on ATS. In this case, the computer screen is the image. I am in an image of particle and wave and my consciousness produces the choice to collapse the wave.

How is this possible?

Hebrews 11
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

How does Christ figure into this:

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The first image was Christ, the LORD of the OT and the Christ of the NT. He is the Word of the duality of Light. God.

Please provide me with your view of science.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Actually i believe we are entering an age where people are slowly realizing the bible isn't the word of God...

Church assemblies will slowly fade to nothing... and the world will learn that relgion isn't the way to peace, though the words of Jesus are... and many will also realize that as well.

This is the age of knowledge... it spreads through the world through the new means of communication. Now people can see the faults/errors within the bible without the threat of being murdered or worse.

People are slowly waking up to reality... And reality is, religion is not Gods way.

I think you know by now what I will say and also know that what I say is only out of love, but I will say it anyway. Just to make sure we continue to have a healthy respect for each other’s views.

Some of what you say is the same as what I am saying. I agree that organized religion as it stands in its current form is not the way.

But to say the bible, both the words of Christ and Paul, is responsible for today’s version of organized religion is not true. It is not the bible itself that has been manipulated, twisted and polluted; it is the Churches interpretation and abuse of scripture that is at fault. Both Christ and Paul’s vision of the Church was much simpler, more humble, and one that focused solely on scripture and the 2nd commandment.

I have faith in a loving God and because of that I can only come to one conclusion; he loved me and all of us enough to give us a single reference to guide our lives to him.

I know you have serious problems with the Old Testament, but I find it to be a necessary step in the spiritual evolution of man. Man had to reject God many times, and out of love God had to allow us to reject him. This rejection is what lead to the fall of man and what you see taking place in the Old Testament. If not for learning this history we may suffer the same fate and reject God.

So through my faith I believe that indeed God did love me enough to provide a single reference point intact and capable of delivering the message to salvation.

I still believe with all my heart that someday you will see what I see in the Old Testament and you will understand that God’s plan is perfect and each step was necessary. God’s plan leads us to his will, which is love.

My friend you will be waiting until death for me to see the good within the OT...

Though you are right about one thing... God loves you. And he did provide a reference point... and that point was his son.

The funny thing is God's laws didn't change from the OT to the new... IF you think about the 10 commandments, they are all about love... though most don't see it.

And you are right, Gods plan is perfect... and i believe the OT is also a test for his children. Basically, will you believe the garbage within these books or not. The churches will force you to believe it... but their power has come to an end with the introduction of the internet.

You'll find that The words of Jesus can counter any arguement within the OT... And there is nothing that the OT can teach anyone that Jesus did not. That makes the books of the OT obsolete.

And i would also be very careful with paul and what he wrote as well...

The words of Jesus never fail... paul falls short in many cases and in some he completely missed the mark.

This actually makes me laugh outright at times, because you'll find many that will attempt to counter Jesus with paul... Paulianity at its best

reply to post by Akragon


The answer to this is found in Galatians 3. We must also consider what Jesus means by, "You must be born again." Death has no power over anyone. We view it as the end and then see the OT as a harsh God with no divine justice. In reality, it is Skin for Skin as stated by Satan in Job 2. The snake sheds it's skin for a new skin. The animal of man is the beast to overcome. 666 is the mark of mankind. Carbon has 6 electrons, 6 neutrons and 6 protons. We must overcome the beast and become as God. Galatians 3 shows the transition from law to love. As you state, the OT is different from the NT, but what you miss is the design and intent that points us to faith. Love involves pain before understanding can come. We are becoming and our sentience is being developed.

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

My friend you will be waiting until death for me to see the good within the OT...

Though you are right about one thing... God loves you. And he did provide a reference point... and that point was his son.

The funny thing is God's laws didn't change from the OT to the new... IF you think about the 10 commandments, they are all about love... though most don't see it.

And you are right, Gods plan is perfect... and i believe the OT is also a test for his children. Basically, will you believe the garbage within these books or not. The churches will force you to believe it... but their power has come to an end with the introduction of the internet.

You'll find that The words of Jesus can counter any arguement within the OT... And there is nothing that the OT can teach anyone that Jesus did not. That makes the books of the OT obsolete.

And i would also be very careful with paul and what he wrote as well...

The words of Jesus never fail... paul falls short in many cases and in some he completely missed the mark.

This actually makes me laugh outright at times, because you'll find many that will attempt to counter Jesus with paul... Paulianity at its best

reply to post by SuperiorEd


My friend i always enjoy your threads, though i believe you are missing one important factor...

the trinity is false...

Time, space, matter, and energy are all parts of God, not seperate parts...

Thus far science tells us that Everything came from one point in time and expanded outward in all directions from that point... And thus, everything within time and space IS God... This of course is my opinion.

And posting references from paul means nothing to me, sorry.

The trinity was not a part of the original documents, it was introduced 300+ years later. It wasn't taught by Jesus or his followers...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Leave it to paul to miss the mark over and over...

27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Jesus said "if you loved me, keep my commandments"

How many Christians are baptized in Christs name, and yet spread hate throughout the world?

Keep a few things in mind. Christ is the only Begotten. Christ is also the image of the first born. What is Creation? The first born image. Adam is the cosmos represented in both Christ and man. Man is all the parts of the cosmos in the form of sentient being. God refuses to be represented by matter. In other words, He is not the image. The image is produced by one God, in the image of three persons of the Trinity. We can look at this as light, wave and consciousness, but this only tells one part. We are one person, but an image of all three. God is one person, but the one projecting the image. God is Eternal and this indicates that he is not in motion or changing. Immortal means in motion forever. Mortal is temporary motion.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

My friend i always enjoy your threads, though i believe you are missing one important factor...

the trinity is false...

Time, space, matter, and energy are all parts of God, not seperate parts...

Thus far science tells us that Everything came from one point in time and expanded outward in all directions from that point... And thus, everything within time and space IS God... This of course is my opinion.

And posting references from paul means nothing to me, sorry.

The trinity was not a part of the original documents, it was introduced 300+ years later. It wasn't taught by Jesus or his followers...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I admire your reasoning, but the fact remains... the trinity as in... Father son and spirit being equal is false doctrine.

And i was just wondering... What makes you believe God is a person?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Leave it to paul to miss the mark over and over...

27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Jesus said "if you loved me, keep my commandments"

How many Christians are baptized in Christs name, and yet spread hate throughout the world?

Again I do not believe that you will be swayed by anything I say but I believe Peter explains very well the problem with Paul’s message. I could explain to you in more detail as both Paul and Peter are very aware of the writing style that Paul is using, but I am sure you would just say I’m crazy. Here is what Peter has to say.

2 Peter 3:14-18
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

You must understand that there is only one baptism. Baptism by water is only an outward sign that you are a believer. The one true baptism is baptism of the Holy Spirit.

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Not all that say they have been baptized have received the one true baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism in no way guarantees the baptism of the Holy Spirit, nor is water baptism a prerequisite to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is the reason for the confusion in Paul’s letters. And anyone who has received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not confused by Paul’s letters or how they were written, and will completely understand the meaning of Hebrews.

To make sure that I do not come across as righteous I feel like I need to include this. I have only done one thing, something that anyone can do; I had and still have complete faith in the entire word of God presented in the Bible. I am a sinner and consider myself to be unworthy of the gifts that have been given to me. It is this feeling of being unworthy that humbles me and fills me with the desire to spread the truth. I must not fail to press forward and continue to pursue the will of my father.

SuperiorEd do you think I said this correctly? I value your input.