Nearly 20% of women in the US are raped, study reveals

reply to post by Charmed707


What I am referring to are the large number of posts saying, "Well if she's drunk and dressed slutty, what did she expect?"

As if all rapes in the initial survey, or in real life, were similar in circumstance.

Obviously, there is a real problem here - regardless of who is dressed a certain way or who misinterprets signals.

The fact of the matter is, by painting all rape victims as liars and unpaid whores, we lose sight of the people who are suffering.

reply to post by amazed


I agree. I seem to have been unclear in my statement.

reply to post by primus2012


I think you have done a fine job of stating your case. It can be confusing online getting the meanings across, and sometimes it is easy to assume that others will understand the wording you use .. ie: my use of "talked into" seemed to not have been explanatory enough.

I guess a good question would be ... why do many people not recognize the scenario I described as being rape? I suspect it is for many reasons, they believe the person cares for them, and we believe that when someone cares for us they have our best interest as heart. Why would someone who has our best interest at heart harm us? Well, they wouldn't would they?

But I think the biggest reason is education, our children are not educated enough to realize that the scenario I described is rape. We grow up in abusive families, we grow up in a society which doesn't truly believe such a scenario is rape, so we do not teach our young ones about it. We have a "blame the victim society", yes we do and I don't understand its prevalence.

To the naysayers here, you've read my scenario, let's chat with the guy shall we? Your wife shared with me a situation which to me sounds like rape, what is your thoughts? "Whaaat? I didn't, she's just crazy, it wasn't that big of a deal, she is just making it sound worse than it is, I just talked her into it, she wanted it, as my wife it's her duty to give it up, what's wrong with seduction, she liked it, she plays that game with me all the time..... etc." So, who do you believe? The woman explaining what happened, or the man denying what happened? This society jumps mostly on the bandwagon of blaming the woman for putting herself in that situation in the first place. Ie: she should have left if she didn't like it, she should have made him stop etc.

But.... what if the woman herself doesn't realize she has been "raped", she knows "something" is wrong, she feels awful, she feels violated but doesn't know why. She hasn't been taught that what happened to her is wrong, she doesn't realize that all relationships are not like that, she thinks that is "normal" and that something is wrong with her for having "problems" with it.

In the end we have a "she said he said" situation.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, you made your case just fine.

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by amazed

It is mind boggling to me how many of you have I seen in other threads telling people to take personal responsibility, but in the realm of sexual assault how easily you jump on the bandwagon of giving personal responsibility to another party.

Everyone holds some responsibility over their own well-being. Women who get drunk out of their mind and make themselves vulnerable to strangers are just stupid. Their actions show that they don't have a whole lot of concern about what happens to them. Same with a man who might walk through a bad neighborhood flashing his wallet. I'm a female and sick to death of women being treated (mainly by feminists) as helpless, vulnerable children who are not intelligent enough to have any responsibility over their own well-being. Men are treated as the polar opposite- right-minded, fully functioning adults. I'd like to be regarded in that same way.

You are still blaming the one who had a crime committed upon them instead of blaming the one who committed the crime.

Being "stupid" or doing something "stupid" is not a hoot and holler of hay dude come rape me. It is a hoot and holler for those less "stupid" to step in and protect her.

Neither is it a hoot and holler to get robbed if a man walks down a dangerous street with his wallet out. Even if he does so, the criminal is the one who makes a choice to commit a crime upon another person. I agree, he made a bad choice to walk down that street, it does not make him the criminal.

When are we going to realize in this society that when a crime takes place, it is the criminal who is at fault?

Until as a society we finally say the criminal is culpable for the crime 100%, crime will imo still continue on its happy way as the criminal get's to lay part of the blame at the feet of their victim. In the long run, making many innocents become pray to more crime. It's a vicious cycle

Also, I have said that I agree with teaching our young women how to be safe and protect themselves.

I have also said, we ought to teach our young men how to not become rapist.

That is teaching all parties how to be safe.

Even so, in my opinion, the one who commits a crime is the one who made a choice to harm another. If naysayers don't get that these days, they probably never will.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by Hydroman
That's 1 out of 5 women have been raped. I just don't buy that.

Having said that, I wish a woman would rape me.

I'd love to make you feel absolutely powerless and terrified.

Originally posted by amazed

You are still blaming the one who had a crime committed upon them instead of blaming the one who committed the crime.

No, I didn't blame the actual crime on the person it was committed against. The reality of the matter is that we live in a world with rapists, killers, robbers, etc.and everyone who makes dangerous decisions knows this. People that deliberately put themselves in harm's way DO hold some responsibility for their own situation.

Being "stupid" or doing something "stupid" is not a hoot and holler of hay dude come rape me.

It shows that they have very little concern about what happens to them. It doesn't matter if you think other people should help others who get drunk out of their mind. There are people in existence who don't care about others and will take advantage of them. That fact of life is never going to change. People have to be responsible for themselves and take measures to protect their well-being. People who 'jump in the shark's tank' deserve very little sympathy.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I can't understand why so many want to doubt these statistics...

I doubt them because they sound utterly absurd. You didn’t concede brokedown’s point about the proportion of rapists to rapes, but it is valid. If one in five women is raped, how many men must be rapists?

Lets pull it out to absurd lengths. Say every rapist is responsible for raping twenty different women in his lifetime – that seems a lot to manage without ever getting caught, but let’s pretend it’s possible. Then, if 140 million American women are alive today and one in five has been raped, there would have to be (140000000/5)/20 = 1.6 million American rapists.

That’s an army of rapists. Actually, it’s bigger than an army: the United States currently has less than 1.5 million personnel (many of them women) on active service.

To me, it sounds like an absurd statistic. More than one in a hundred American men is a rapist?

Come on.

*

I can't understand why so many want to doubt these statistics...

Perhaps it is easier to understand why a woman who has been raped would want to believe them.

I have no sympathy with the ‘men’s movement’ and those who claim that modern men are the victims of sexist attacks and sexual discrimination. I have enough old-fashioned machismo left in my bones to believe that a man who can’t hold his own against women is a pretty sad sort of man. Yet there is no denying that there’s a lot of hostility towards men being expressed nowadays by women. I won’t say some of it isn’t deserved, but for crying out loud – sexist tripe doesn’t sound any better coming out of a woman’s mouth than a man’s.

The other day, a friend of mine posted this on her Facebook Wall:

Condoms With Teeth Fight Rape In South Africa

Over 30,000 Rape-Axe condoms are being handed out free at South Africa's World Cup. While they won't stop rape, the condoms (worn by women) have jagged-teeth inside to tear penises up, and can only be removed by doctors.

Sounds grim, but then I imagine rape isn't any fun for the woman either. The inventor, Dr Sonnet Ehlers, was inspired to create the painful condom after she met a woman who'd been raped. The woman apparently told Ehlers "if only I had teeth down there," which encouraged her to look at ways to make men regret their actions...

‘While they won’t stop rape’ is right. These things (if they really exist, and are ever used) would only put a rape victim in further immediate danger. But whether they exist or not, I don’t think they are really intended to be used; they are simply an expression of hostility towards men. Not rapists (because they can never be used); just men.

*

I’m a man who gets on unusually well with women. As a result, I’ve heard a lot more of women’s talk about men than men usually do. And I have often been surprised by your hostility towards us. I have come to believe – as Freud did, though not perhaps for quite the same reasons – that many, perhaps most women bear a lot of anger and resentment against men. I am not saying the same isn’t true in the opposite direction; the term ‘battle of the sexes’ is a cliché, after all. But I will say that made-up statistics like this (come on; it was a phone survey, for heaven’s sake, the ultimate lazy pollster’s dipstick) and the ghastly device pictured above have their roots, not in reality, but in some women’s anger and vengefulness.

I can't understand why so many want to doubt these statistics...

I am a man. I don’t rape and I will not believe, without a hell of a lot more evidence than one telephone survey, that more than one in a hundred of my male relatives, friends and colleagues are rapists.

Of course it's wise to protect yourself at all times, but obviously women who have had too much to drink are not thinking clearly. That certainly does not mean that she doesn't care what happens to her. Of course she cares what happens to her. To think otherwise is ludicrous. To say they deserve little sympathy is again blaming the victim. There are alot of people who ensure that they take protective measures to ensure their own safety and these same people can be going through a difficult period in their lives or just be plain naive youth and find that they have left themselves in a vulnerable position. That doesn't mean they are culpable for being assaulted. Most people in western countries have had too much to drink at one time or another and left themselves vulnerable.
The question is, why are there so many sickos out there willing to take advantage of a situation like that.

Yes they are out there and we know that, particularly as we get older, but why are there so many sickos out there? What is it about are society that seems to be breeding so many of them?

The attitudes of some of the people on this thread towards so-called 'sluts and whores' is sickening. They are human beings with a heart and a soul. Some of those 'whores' have been badly abused. I know a woman who was sexualized at the age of 5yrs old because she had been molested as a child she then went on to be quite promiscuous, that promiscuity is often a result of feeling worthless. There are many women out there with post traumatic stress syndrome because of all that they have gone through. PTSD just like the military vets have, that can also cause self-destructive behavior. They deserve compassion, not judgement.

This deep seated hostility in some men and women as well towards women who are promiscuous is dangerous in and of itself. I think of the Robert Pickton case in British Columbia where dozens and perhaps even hundreds of street women were taken individually to a pig farm. At this pig farm these women who were deemed to be garbage, were killed, put through a wood chipper and had what was left of them fed to the pigs. The police were informed of this but did nothing for 3 years. After considerable public pressure about all these disappearances the police finally acted and invaded the farm. They found some of the remains in buckets. There is now possibly going to be an Inquiry about it.

Yes there are alot of basically good men out there, men who don't understand some womens hostility towards men. Women live in a different world. And just because many women are able to overcome what has happened to them doesn't mean they haven't been deeply affected by it. Many don't survive the repercussions of it. You do lose some of that innocence and trust towards men after you have been raped or assaulted. Women do have to be constantly on guard for potential predators and that can cause some resentment. To have to be continually on guard that some sick person that they know or don't know is gonna try and hurt them This is not paranoia on their part. All you have to do is read the paper to know the fear is legitimate. Do men not hear the news when it is reported yet again practically on a daily basis that yet another woman has been attacked or assualted or raped or killed by some enraged ex-boyfriend who couldn't handle the break-up?

It's a scary world out there and it's about time we really started looking out for eachother instead of casting judgement. Whatever the statistics say, I know that each one of my close friends have been raped at some point in their lives. That is enough of a statistic for me. Does that mean all man are bad? no, not at all, but some men could try harder to see it from a woman's perspective instead of being so defensive.

Originally posted by batgirl
Of course it's wise to protect yourself at all times, but obviously women who have had too much to drink are not thinking clearly.

Having too much to drink in a public place is a bad choice to start with. Men are always held accountable for their actions- whether drunk or not. It's a lower standard for women.

That certainly does not mean that she doesn't care what happens to her. Of course she cares what happens to her.

No one who is actually concerned for their well-being would put themselves in such a risky situation. Actions speak louder than words.

To say they deserve little sympathy is again blaming the victim. There are alot of people who ensure that they take protective measures to ensure their own safety and these same people can be going through a difficult period in their lives or just be plain naive youth and find that they have left themselves in a vulnerable position.

Not having sympathy for people who make idiotic decisions is not the same as saying they are responsible for the crime itself. I'm young and don't buy into the 'naive youth' argument. My generation grew up with immense knowledge of all the dangers and evil in this world. There's just no good excuse for such bad decisions.

Most people in western countries have had too much to drink at one time or another and left themselves vulnerable.

That shows how idiotic our culture is. Just because 'everyone does it' doesn't legitimize it in any way.

The question is, why are there so many sickos out there willing to take advantage of a situation like that. Yes they are out there and we know that, particularly as we get older, but why are there so many sickos out there? What is it about are society that seems to be breeding so many of them?

Well, for one, the societal status of the woman has been reduced to a mere sex object. Just look at the media- most of the female 'musicians' are just glorified prostitutes and women in movies are just used for sexy decoration. For the large majority of images you will see of females plastered throughout the media, they will be half-naked and/or posed in a provocative or seductive manner. The case is not the same for men. Just think of the current and upcoming generations of boys...this is all they have seen of women their entire lives. Many may not even be closely aquainted with their mother because of divorce or being dropped off at daycare. There is also a direct correlation between fatherless homes and sexual assaults. The less our society becomes focused on stable families and the upbringing of children, the more crime in general we will see.

Part of the problem is that women who do speak out against the portrayal of women in the media tend to blame men instead of the feminist idea of 'sexual liberation'- equating a woman's worth with her sexuality. How women choose to portray themselves is not the fault of men. Women are their own worst enemy.

Women do have to be constantly on guard for potential predators and that can cause some resentment.

Men are more at risk for being victims of robbery, muggings, and murder than women.

some men could try harder to see it from a woman's perspective instead of being so defensive.

I'm a female in case you missed where I noted that in my other post.

So let me get this straight. Women should not be going out to any public place to enjoy a few drinks and possibly God Forbid, have one too many. If she does then she has set herself up to be drugged and/or raped and deserves little sympathy. Men though, if they have had a hard week or just plain feel like can go out to a public place and get as loaded as they want, they, by doing this are not setting themselves up to be drugged and raped because there is very little chance this will happen to them. But women are held to a lower standard of behavior and men are held to a higher standard of behavior.

Let's say that it is true that a woman going out to a public place and having some drinks leaves her open to drugging and/or rape. What does that say about the society we live in? that it has become that depraved.

I suppose then that we will have to go back to the days when women weren't allowed into drinking establishments, it was only a man's privilege to drink in a public place.

Do you know what life was like before the feminist movement? When women were seen as property that belonged to their Father and then their Husband and had very little in the way of options in life. It is very cool these days for a woman to be anti-feminist, those women should not vote in any political election because it was the women's movement that got women that right, they also established the right of women to be considered to be 'persons under the law'. Yes, persons. There are things about the feminist movement that I have issues with, I also have had issues with some of the rhetoric concerning women's sexuality in the feminist movement but I also acknowledge that if it wasn't for them laying their lives in the line, I, as a woman, would not have alot of the rights I have now.

And no, not all the young out there realize that there are soulless predators out there and you can't tell who they are by how they look or how they act. Believe me, I have met my share of psychopaths. They are very slick and cunning and like nothing more than for a woman to 'love them'. Not because they have any need to be loved, but because women who love them are easy to control and suck the life out of.

reply to post by Charmed707


As you admit, you are in the age category where you still are naive and blame the victim. Someday you will have the age and life experience to know better. Maybe.

I hope that you never in up in a situation where you end up on the side of being the victim. If you do, that may be the time you realize how wrong you have been, but I won't hold my breath. Many people in your shoes, if they ever do get raped, still blame themselves from the leftover psychological belief that the victim is partially to blame.

I believe that even if a woman is drunk and stumbling down the street naked in a bad part of town, she should still not get raped.

Neither should a man get robbed if he walks down a street counting his money.

Again YES, we should all take steps and precautions to keep ourselves in a position where we are less likely to be harmed. EVEN SO this does not remove the responsibility of a crime from the one who commits the crime.

The one who CHOOSES to commit a crime is and always will be imo the one who is 100% responsible for making the choice to commit a crime against another person. NO WAY AROUND THAT!

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by amazed
reply to post by Charmed707

 

I believe that even if a woman is drunk and stumbling down the street naked in a bad part of town, she should still not get raped.

Neither should a man get robbed if he walks down a street counting his money.

Again YES, we should all take steps and precautions to keep ourselves in a position where we are less likely to be harmed. EVEN SO this does not remove the responsibility of a crime from the one who commits the crime.

The one who CHOOSES to commit a crime is and always will be imo the one who is 100% responsible for making the choice to commit a crime against another person. NO WAY AROUND THAT!

Yes, this. Victim blaming to the extreme arrives in the form of judges who blame 4 year olds of being 'provocative' when their fathers rape them. Sound ludicrous? That's Charmed707's argument in another light. Mental faculties - or lack thereof - in no way should give carte blanche to a rapist.

The rape condom - this was hotly debated years ago when it first appeared. It really was a symbol of mass consciousness, of rage and pain. I don't know if it was ever distributed, but it stirred up a heck of a conversation and brought attention to what was going on. I was always against the idea for two reasons - the obvious homicidal reaction of the rapist after his little penectomy, and the fact that women would be taking a reactionary stance against rape - always the victim, preparing to be victimized - rather than those in charge undertaking a more proactive stance in terms of education, increasing the status and power of women, decreasing the sadistic forms of male 'privilege' so entrenched in their culture, and leveling out the arena of the 'gender war'.

Originally posted by amazed

As you admit, you are in the age category where you still are naive and blame the victim.

I never blamed any victim for the crime committed against them. The fact that you choose to ignore is that no right-minded adult is completely helpless in their safety and well-being. I don't know why so many women insist on acting completely helpless and vulnerable. If anything, this just encourages the perpetrators.

I hope that you never in up in a situation where you end up on the side of being the victim. If you do, that may be the time you realize how wrong you have been, but I won't hold my breath.

I not once said or implied that there aren't cases of women who are genuinely unwittingly victimized with no control over the situation. Unlike some people, I would never act so blatantly irresponsibly and put myself in such a vulnerable position. Being unwittingly victimized is a completely different situation than throwing yourself in the shark's tank.

Many people in your shoes, if they ever do get raped, still blame themselves from the leftover psychological belief that the victim is partially to blame.

It's a mature, honest, and even beneficial response to say to yourself "man, I acted stupidly", when in fact, you did. That realization and learning from the experience is a part of survival in this crazy world. Women like yourself are NOT helping other women at all when you insist they are completely powerless in what happens to them. Women who consistently indulge in dangerous behaviors DO have the power to control their environment. Does it guarantee they will never be victimized? No, but they can lower the chances through their everyday actions and practices.

I believe that even if a woman is drunk and stumbling down the street naked in a bad part of town, she should still not get raped.

No one should have to lock their doors, worry about their children going out to ride their bike, worry about being robbed, mugged, murdered, raped, etc. It doesn't matter how you believe the world should be. There has always been and always will be the evil, sadistic, and the violent. As long as humanity exists, these things will never disappear. Acting as if this completely safe fantasy world that you've constructed will ever exist is just unproductive and not beneficial to anyone. Instead of wishing for a safer world, you should adjust your own behavior according to the reality of this world. It's much more rational than continuing reckless behaviors, frequently being victimized, and then whining about it time and time again.

Originally posted by Cascadian

Yes, this. Victim blaming to the extreme arrives in the form of judges who blame 4 year olds of being 'provocative' when their fathers rape them. Sound ludicrous? That's Charmed707's argument in another light.

How insulting that you're comparing women to helpless children. Insulting, but not surprising. Pulling far-fetched, illogical fabrications out of thin air does nothing to help your argument or give you credibility.

Originally posted by batgirl
So let me get this straight. Women should not be going out to any public place to enjoy a few drinks and possibly God Forbid, have one too many. If she does then she has set herself up to be drugged and/or raped and deserves little sympathy.

Irresponsible behavior DOES have consequences and I don't view women as helpless children who are unable to understand this obvious fact. Sympathy is reserved for the truly helpless.

Men though, if they have had a hard week or just plain feel like can go out to a public place and get as loaded as they want, they, by doing this are not setting themselves up to be drugged and raped because there is very little chance this will happen to them.

Why do you ignore the fact that men are more at risk for being a victim of mugging, serious assault, or the worst crime of all- murder? By the way, I don't have a lot of respect for any irresponsible drinker, and zero respect for people who drink and drive.

Let's say that it is true that a woman going out to a public place and having some drinks leaves her open to drugging and/or rape. What does that say about the society we live in? that it has become that depraved.

I've already discussed societal problems, but you chose to ignore them because they are all a result of feminism.

I suppose then that we will have to go back to the days when women weren't allowed into drinking establishments, it was only a man's privilege to drink in a public place.

I never suggested that women shouldn't be allowed to drink in public. Along with freedom comes responsibility. All I'm suggesting is that this campaign of insisting that women have no control over their own situation is destructive and not realistic or helpful.

It is very cool these days for a woman to be anti-feminist, those women should not vote in any political election because it was the women's movement that got women that right

Feminism has been far more destructive than beneficial. I, as, most other opponents of feminism are referring to the 60's and 70's wave of feminism when speaking of the destruction.

they also established the right of women to be considered to be 'persons under the law'.

...and then insist that the unborn NOT be considered persons under the law. Hypocrites.

And no, not all the young out there realize that there are soulless predators out there

You're out of touch with the younger generations, aren't you?

and you can't tell who they are by how they look or how they act.

I never thought you could.

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by Cascadian

Yes, this. Victim blaming to the extreme arrives in the form of judges who blame 4 year olds of being 'provocative' when their fathers rape them. Sound ludicrous? That's Charmed707's argument in another light.

How insulting that you're comparing women to helpless children. Insulting, but not surprising. Pulling far-fetched, illogical fabrications out of thin air does nothing to help your argument or give you credibility.

I'm sorry that you missed the point of my post. I'll spell it out again, using smaller words:

It doesn't matter what the woman (or child) does or how she acts. She is not responsible for being raped. Ever.

The end.


Hth!

Originally posted by Cascadian

It doesn't matter what the woman (or child) does or how she acts. She is not responsible for being raped. Ever.

Every right-minded adult (yes, ADULTS...that cannot be compared to children) hold some responsibility over their own environment and situations. Period.

So you think ALL of society's problems are a result of feminism!! I can hardlly believe you actually believe that.
You think ALL OF SOCIETY'S PROBLEMS are a result of feminism. That is what you said. That encompasses one hell of alot of problems being lain at the foot of women of the feminist persuasion. That is so ludicrous that to argue against it, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

You like to downplay the responsibility of men and overplay the responsibility of women don't you.

Yes it's just women acting like children and fawning helplessness and being irresponsible, that is why in your mind so many of them are attacked and raped and fondled and stalked and killed. And yes men are mugged and robbed and beaten and murdered BY OTHER MEN 99% of the time..

So you didn't think I would be able to recognize a psychopath? Do you think you could? Do you think it's so easy? They have fooled even the most highly trained forensic psychologists but they wouldn't fool you would they? because you are just so much more insightful and intelligent than all the very intelligent people in the world who have ever been fooled by a psychopath. It's that arrogance that you have that is gonna get you in trouble one of these days. You, as a young person are very patronizing and condescending, you think you have it all figured out, you are so much more mature and advanced in your thinking than us little peons you are debating with. You go on thinking that way and I will hope nothing happens to you and that you will grow out of this phase of life you are going through. In the meantime, I had better get off this thread or I may say something I would regret

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by Cascadian

It doesn't matter what the woman (or child) does or how she acts. She is not responsible for being raped. Ever.

Every right-minded adult (yes, ADULTS...that cannot be compared to children) hold some responsibility over their own environment and situations. Period.

...you forgot to finish your sentence. Once again, I'll do the charitable thing and help:

"Every right-minded adult (snip snip) holds some responsibility over their own environment and situations, but no responsibility over someone else's criminal actions. Period."

I daresay that most courts agree with me. Whoops...except a few in the Middle East (I believe women are forced to marry their rapists or are thrown into jail for their obvious baiting, what with breathing and showing their ankles and all).

Yeah, the whole "B**** made me do it" argument holds little weight in the civilized world.

Originally posted by batgirl
So you think ALL of society's problems are a result of feminism

No. What I meant was that all the societal problems I had previously discussed are a result of feminism.

You like to downplay the responsibility of men and overplay the responsibility of women don't you.

Not at all. You're the one who acts as if women should be completely devoid of any responsibility whatsoever, overplays their vulnerability, and underplays their capability.

And yes men are mugged and robbed and beaten and murdered BY OTHER MEN 99% of the time.

What's your point? I never said anything about women as perpetrators. You were the one acting as if men have some massive privilege over women when it comes to victimization. You talk as if women must walk around feeling paranoid while men can relax. This just isn't so.

So you didn't think I would be able to recognize a psychopath?

Wth? I didn't say anything about your ability to recognize psychopaths. I said "I never thought you (as in people in general) could" in response to you saying that you can't always recognize a psychopath by how they're dressed and such.

because you are just so much more insightful and intelligent than all the very intelligent people in the world who have ever been fooled by a psychopath.

I don't why you brought up psychopaths to begin with. It doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to refrain from making dangerous decisions.

It's that arrogance that you have that is gonna get you in trouble one of these days.

Arrogant people are the ones who think they're invincible and indulge in reckless behavior, like the people you like to defend. Expecting adults to act like adults is NOT an extreme or outlandish notion at all.

I will hope nothing happens to you and that you will grow out of this phase of life you are going through.

People tend to grow more responsible as they age, not vice versa. Nice try.

You mean to tell me that you would say to your daughter essentially "Sorry, but you have absolutely no control over what happens to you, whether you go out to bars or clubs where predators prey on women and get drunk to the point of unconsciousness or advertise your body to them or not. You are completely powerless"? I would think higher of my daughter than that and I have a higher opinion of women in general than you do, apparently.

Originally posted by Cascadian

I've already said multiple times that people are not responsible for criminal actions of others. What they ARE responsible for is their own reckless decisions that they knew were likely to land them in a certain situation. Just grow up and accept it.

I daresay that most courts agree with me.

People accused of rape are aquitted all the time in this country. I didn't say anything about changing the law, although two intoxicated people having sex should not be considered rape.

(I believe women are forced to marry their rapists or are thrown into jail for their obvious baiting, what with breathing and showing their ankles and all).

You'd have to be an idiot to compare those women to women who get drunk out of their mind and/or advertise their bodies in public.

Yeah, the whole "B**** made me do it" argument holds little weight in the civilized world.

There is no part of this world that is 'civilized'. Not one person in this thread has suggested that that argument is valid.