Nearly 20% of women in the US are raped, study reveals

reply to post by rubyeyes



I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound unsympathetic to those who have truly been raped or molested. Its just this extremist view that bothers me. I reread what I wrote and it sounds not quite how I meant it. Because, even though it upsets me how this girl I know is always suspecting everyone has been raped and molested too, and that bothers me, I really do feel bad for her because her life is horrible and and I can really see that what she went through must have been horrific because it seems to taint all her relationships. It just makes me mad that this article seems to be overestimating rape, because it makes a monster out of men and makes women look like victims and paints a sad and ugly picture of humanity which I refuse to believe is true. Rape is horrific, but I believe it is rarer than they are saying and that we should focus on the fact that most men don't rape. Unless we are talking of certain areas in Africa, there it is a real pandemic. Sometimes abused women go a step beyond standing up for their cause, and step over into an area of mistrust that is not healthy (though I can see how it can happen), it is not good in the long run for victims or women in general to think rape is so common. Its building a bad false memory almost when people overhype it and its taking away from true victims when its exaggerated as well.

Originally posted by haarvik
never mind, read the fact sheet, and it was a telephone survey. Based on this, I don't think the number is accurate. personally, I think the number is most likely higher, but I could be wrong. I just don't see all respondents being forthcoming about something as personal as this. If they are too afraid or ashamed to report it, why would they tell a stranger on a phone survey?

edit on 12/15/2011 by haarvik because: (no reason given)

Back in high school in the 80's there was a rash of rapes. After the investiations where over it was found there had been oly one but the vistum had goten so much sympathy that others had claimed rape to get in on being the center of attention.

I was looking at the paperwork the hih school sent home with a friends tager on rape and the brochure was saying that if you have sex wh someone and regretted it the next day then that was a form of rape. I totally disgree, rape should not be defined as regretting an action you took.

So I'd be careful about these stats since they left they left the definition up to the respondants.

Originally posted by ottobot

I define rape as: force or coercion of the victim to perform sexual acts for or with the abuser.

.

This is the issue here. The problem with this entire thread is the definition of rape. To many women if a man brushes your chest with his hand and you say "stop" that constitutes a rape. No matter if its just your husband being frisky or a guy in a bar playing around.By the definition above a women at Maudi Gras exposing her breasts for beads has been raped by the entire crowd. If this is what the women here define as rape then hell a whole lot of men have been raped as well.

The problem is this trivalizes the act, waters it down. In an effort to promote a femonist agenda many women see no problem with this. Its crap. It equates something like a brutal attack by a stranger that sexually violates a women with rough sex with a partner. The two are not the same. No one questions an attack by a stranger but when two people that know each other have a confrontation the waters get murky.
Unlike crimes like murder where the outcome is not in doubt rape CAN be a matter of opinion. I know that may sound harsh to some of you ladies but its a fact. Why is it that drunken females are not held responsible for their actions and drunken males are? A drunken female is viewed as unable to concent but a drunken male must be able to determine if a female is drunk and if she in fact did or did not concent. If he chooses wrong in his drunken state he is held responsible.
Too much of a grey area to me lots of nonsense and double standard.

You just described the EXTREME situation and yeah that would be way wrong, but it does not fall into your "talked into" definition. The defining language is what is key here for if that were in the legal definition, a prosecutor could have the book thrown at a guy who asked his wife "please" to have sex.

When broaching such a topic it is of utmost importance to not only present concrete and factual numbers but to also present it with overly screened and carefully described defining language. That has been my entire point throughout the thread.

Nobody would dare argue that rape is ok. Nobody would dare claim it doesn't happen. But the frequency at which it has been portrayed and the loose definitions it has broadened to are certainly objectionable, arguable, debatable, and most importantly, dangerous.

I grieve for anyone that has been a victim. I have a mother, sisters, nieces, sister-in-laws, wife, and daughters. I worry for their sakes, I care about this topic, I pray that they would let the family know if anything ever happened and am convinced that they would, my daughters especially. But I also have a grandfather, father, brothers, nephews, brother-in-laws, and would hate to see any of them, or myself unjustly accused, profiled, discriminated against, just because they/we are men. We are not destined or predisposed to commit any act of violence let alone one of a sexual nature. We are in danger of falling victim to a mob-mentality of "men are going to hurt you, it's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when". Liberal campaigns could be carried to Washington on this idea alone, and then there goes another nail in the coffin of liberty.

IDEA FOR PREVENTION
Teach our kids/students about crime and the butterfly effect it has upon society. Show them how one act of violence or theft can affect the victim and everyone associated. Try to instill some moral fiber and behavior into them while they are young and moldable. Expand on that by teaching crime and punishment. Make sure that every kid knows about right and wrong and the consequences for doing wrong. Repeat this teaching each year until graduation. Make it required curriculum. If the kids aren't going to receive this critical education at home or in church then it needs to be done in the schools.

Force criminals to remedial classes on the same subject. Show the grieving victims, parents, family, friends, etc.. over and over and over until there's a definite remorseful response.

Each year my daughters are forced to watch the planes crash into the twin towers at their schools. Why can't they replace that fear mongering tactic with something like "This is What Happens When You Hurt Someone"?

It would be a good start. But too many would object for it to ever happen.

I would also say that this number is too low. Over the course of my life, I've known a lot of women who were rape victims. I even know a few who were raped by their own fathers. This kind of thing is rampant in our society whether people want to believe it or not and in my experience, this is why some people are so messed up in the head. I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss stuff like this. There are a lot of predators in our society and it's sickening.

I can think of six ex's, two family members, several friends either past or present and several from friends of a friend who have been victims of rape and there's even more attempted rapes by the use of things like GHB in drinks prepared for them or spiked when they weren't looking. This stuff is everywhere, so I believe that number is higher.

I think that blaming the victims because of the clothes they wear is absurd. Projecting blame on the victims is basically excusing the rapist of his actions. It's called self control and more people need to learn how to exercise it.

Edited to add: Projecting blame on the victims is also, IMO, a big reason why so many rapes go unreported. That and the shame and other feelings going through the mind of the victim and why would they come forward just so they can be blamed and ridiculed?

Originally posted by Kratos1220
Edited to add: Projecting blame on the victims is also, IMO, a big reason why so many rapes go unreported. That and the shame and other feelings going through the mind of the victim and why would they come forward just so they can be blamed and ridiculed?

edit on 16-12-2011 by Kratos1220 because: (no reason given)

This is exactly why I never reported it or told my folks when it happened. I knew I would be blamed right away saying I 'deserved it' I 'asked for it' or I 'made it up'.

Originally posted by amazed

It is mind boggling to me how many of you have I seen in other threads telling people to take personal responsibility, but in the realm of sexual assault how easily you jump on the bandwagon of giving personal responsibility to another party.

Everyone holds some responsibility over their own well-being. Women who get drunk out of their mind and make themselves vulnerable to strangers are just stupid. Their actions show that they don't have a whole lot of concern about what happens to them. Same with a man who might walk through a bad neighborhood flashing his wallet. I'm a female and sick to death of women being treated (mainly by feminists) as helpless, vulnerable children who are not intelligent enough to have any responsibility over their own well-being. Men are treated as the polar opposite- right-minded, fully functioning adults. I'd like to be regarded in that same way.

reply to post by primus2012


Ok, I will go with it being an "extreme" situation and ask why do you think that is the "extreme" situation? I suspect it happens way more often than we know.

And yes, it does describe the "talked into" definition when the woman does give in instead of choosing to go to sleep, as in my scenario. If she gives in after all, it is still rape. She was harassed, bombarded with statements which left her feeling as if she were wrong for saying no, she was shamed and guilted, left feeling fear and in the end if she gave in, she was forced by words if not physically.

No, I certainly do not think a man saying "please" is force. Jeesh, I am talking about the men who bombard their claimed loved one with please, please please UNTIL she finally gives in, and also uses the.... if you don't I will do "insert negative statement"..... , if you loved me enough you would, if you don't you are a "insert derogatory term"....... etc. until the woman FINALLY gives in. THAT is what I am speaking of, verbal bombardment which is hurtful, causes fear, is guilt inducing, and shaming which is meant to disarm a woman emotionally so that she gives in physically. Those are the types of words and phrases which "talked into" can define an encounter as rape.

I am not trying to say the playful intimate loving "talking into" of fun and true caring for your partner seduction as being rape. Seduction creates a feeling of warmth and intimacy, that is not the situation I was trying to explain.

No, I do not see anyone right out saying "rape is ok" but I am certainly seeing where the definition of what rape is and what constitutes rape as being denied. I also see a lot of blaming the victim instead of recognizing that a rapist makes a choice and the choice is to commit a crime on another person. I have also heard many men, not in this thread though, who say they do not believe it is rape if they are in a relationship.

And yes, I am truly interested as to why you think my example was extreme.

Harm None
Peace

The naysayers in this thread totally ignore the women and men that give their personal experiences because they cannot be verified then say the statistics are false.

It seems that because they think/believe that this cannot be true then it must not be.

Go ask some of your female friends what the percentage is of women they know that have been raped/date raped. (Don't ask them if they have been because that will put them on the defensive)


To the Guys who think No sometimes means Yes

No means NO 100% of the time. I don't care what her body language says because You are taking a 50/50 chance of being wrong and being a rapist if you misread her body language.

If I hear No my butt is up and sitting on another couch or in another room in about 1.5 seconds if her No really meant yes then she will inform you of it after You stop like she told You to.


Example: Here in the south if someone says something You don't understand You say excuse me? or I'm sorry?

My cousin changed lanes and a guy who was coming up too fast and changed lanes at the last minute was forced to run off the road.My cousin turned around to check on the guy.

Cousin: You ok?
Guy: You ran me off the road!
Cousin: I'm sorry?( meaning wth are you talking about)

Cop comes up and tells Cousin( after hearing both sides of the story) Well normally You wouldn't be at fault but You apologized to him so You admitted guilt so here's Your ticket.

Words are words and NO means NO! Body language can be misinterpreted the word NO cannot. So if her mouth says no and her body language says yes then legally You just raped her if you had sex with her anyways.


If I want to have sex with a woman I will straight up ask, You wanna have sex? There are only two answers Yes or No and I take them at face value.

There are no grey areas when it comes to emotionally scarring someone

There are no grey areas when it comes to having to become registered sex offender

There are no grey areas when it comes to the possibility of prison time ( and possible anal rape)

There are no grey areas when it comes to ruining Your life by misinterpreting someones body language.

I take No to mean No! If you want to keep gambling with Your life and freedom by relying On your own interpretations of what No means then be my guest. But to me personally the penalties far out weigh the gains to take that gamble

Originally posted by Adamanteus
The naysayers in this thread totally ignore the women and men that give their personal experiences because they cannot be verified then say the statistics are false.

It seems that because they think/believe that this cannot be true then it must not be.

Go ask some of your female friends what the percentage is of women they know that have been raped/date raped. (Don't ask them if they have been because that will put them on the defensive)


To the Guys who think No sometimes means Yes

No means NO 100% of the time. I don't care what her body language says because You are taking a 50/50 chance of being wrong and being a rapist if you misread her body language.

If I hear No my butt is up and sitting on another couch or in another room in about 1.5 seconds if her No really meant yes then she will inform you of it after You stop like she told You to.


Example: Here in the south if someone says something You don't understand You say excuse me? or I'm sorry?

My cousin changed lanes and a guy who was coming up too fast and changed lanes at the last minute was forced to run off the road.My cousin turned around to check on the guy.

Cousin: You ok?
Guy: You ran me off the road!
Cousin: I'm sorry?( meaning wth are you talking about)

Cop comes up and tells Cousin( after hearing both sides of the story) Well normally You wouldn't be at fault but You apologized to him so You admitted guilt so here's Your ticket.

Words are words and NO means NO! Body language can be misinterpreted the word NO cannot. So if her mouth says no and her body language says yes then legally You just raped her if you had sex with her anyways.


If I want to have sex with a woman I will straight up ask, You wanna have sex? There are only two answers Yes or No and I take them at face value.

There are no grey areas when it comes to emotionally scarring someone

There are no grey areas when it comes to having to become registered sex offender

There are no grey areas when it comes to the possibility of prison time ( and possible anal rape)

There are no grey areas when it comes to ruining Your life by misinterpreting someones body language.

I take No to mean No! If you want to keep gambling with Your life and freedom by relying On your own interpretations of what No means then be my guest. But to me personally the penalties far out weigh the gains to take that gamble

edit on 16-12-2011 by Adamanteus because: (no reason given)

If only my ex and many other men thought the way you do. Rape wouldn't be a problem then.
When I say 'stop', even if I'm laughing, I mean 'STOP'.
When I say 'no', even if my 'body language says otherwise' or I'm laughing, I mean 'NO'.
If I want to have sex with a guy, I'll damn well tell him so. I'm not afraid to be the 'man', so to speak, and ask for sex or say yes when a guy asks me.

Just ask my recent ex about it. I'm the one that asked if we could have sex more than he asked me.

It's extreme because I cannot fathom how one could do that to their partner. It's one thing to try and talk your other into sex, but knowing they've given the definite "no way" is the sign to call it quits; cold shower time or go work out,etc... Proceeding with the night invasion...deplorable, disgusting, unforgivable. It's extreme; maybe that's naivety on my part. Or maybe I just have to believe that every guy I know would be incapable of such a deed. Maybe I have to stand up for the good guys that I think most of us are.

I'm not being unsympathetic here. I hope that shows through. There will be no blame of the victim coming from me. Rape is never ok or justified. The victim doesn't "ask for it". You are right to hold men to a higher standard; because darn-it most of us are worthy of that. If rape is an uncontrollable urge in an uncommon man, then they need to be locking him away with the other animals for a very long time.

I'm not doing so well at stating my case.

Originally posted by Believer101

If only my ex and many other men thought the way you do. Rape wouldn't be a problem then.
When I say 'stop', even if I'm laughing, I mean 'STOP'.
When I say 'no', even if my 'body language says otherwise' or I'm laughing, I mean 'NO'.
If I want to have sex with a guy, I'll damn well tell him so. I'm not afraid to be the 'man', so to speak, and ask for sex or say yes when a guy asks me.

Just ask my recent ex about it. I'm the one that asked if we could have sex more than he asked me.

It's not any respect or chivalry thing it is 100% self preservation motivated.

When I was Younger I had the whole No but body language says yes thing happening but she said No and my ass was up and on the other couch in less than 2 secs flipping through the channels.

Her: what are You doing?
Me: You said No.
Her I didn't mean it!
Me: Well why did You say it?
Her I don't know come back over here
Me: Are You sure?
Her: Yes!
Me? are we going to have sex?
Her: yes
Me: ok as long as You're 100% sure You want to.
Her: Yes I am.

Of course it could've went the other way and I could've not stopped because her body told me yes but I'd much rather take an extra 30 secs to be 100% sure than to assume and become a rapist. My freedom is so much more valuable to me than a single orgasm.

Originally posted by BeholdAPaleHorse
This is unreal. Rape should be an automatic death sentence if found guilty! No exceptions! Rape total destroys a person mentally and emotionally.

Where do I start?

Firstly, there's already plenty of examples of false accusation.
Secondly, while it does do lots of damage to a person, there are plenty of examples of people here and everywhere who have lived normal or relatively normal lives after a rape. Proof it doesn't "totally destroy a person".
Third...

Some even end up killing themselves. Rapists are the scum of the Earth, Losers who can't get any by being themselves.

By being a rapist, it seems they did get some by being themselves.

reply to post by Dragoon01


I'm not sure how you are reading that line as a double standard?

Force - physically make someone do something.

Coercion - using manipulation, including threats of violence to loved ones, to intimidate someone into doing what you want them to.

I have read some of the other posts, and I do disagree with what a lot of people consider "rape".

But, as I define it, in my experience, this definition is accurate.

And, if you would read my posts, I do state that many people who have told me of being raped by force or coercion are male.

Originally posted by ottobot
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Duly noted. I will edit my post since that is the only part of it that you can find issue with.

Should I find issue with your life experiences? That's basically what your post was about.

Originally posted by Adamanteus

Originally posted by Believer101

If only my ex and many other men thought the way you do. Rape wouldn't be a problem then.
When I say 'stop', even if I'm laughing, I mean 'STOP'.
When I say 'no', even if my 'body language says otherwise' or I'm laughing, I mean 'NO'.
If I want to have sex with a guy, I'll damn well tell him so. I'm not afraid to be the 'man', so to speak, and ask for sex or say yes when a guy asks me.

Just ask my recent ex about it. I'm the one that asked if we could have sex more than he asked me.

It's not any respect or chivalry thing it is 100% self preservation motivated.

When I was Younger I had the whole No but body language says yes thing happening but she said No and my ass was up and on the other couch in less than 2 secs flipping through the channels.

Her: what are You doing?
Me: You said No.
Her I didn't mean it!
Me: Well why did You say it?
Her I don't know come back over here
Me: Are You sure?
Her: Yes!
Me? are we going to have sex?
Her: yes
Me: ok as long as You're 100% sure You want to.
Her: Yes I am.

Of course it could've went the other way and I could've not stopped because her body told me yes but I'd much rather take an extra 30 secs to be 100% sure than to assume and become a rapist. My freedom is so much more valuable to me than a single orgasm.

Oh I know, and I completely respect and thank you for being the way you are.
To my ex that raped me, my body language could have said yes considering we were making out fairly heavily, but I still said no because I didn't want it to go any further.

And I really respect you for doing what you did in that situation. She may not have meant it at the time, but she still did say it. If I was in your shoes, I would have done the same thing.

I find it disturbing that so many people use the "drunk bimbo" stereotype when discussing rape.

Not everyone who is raped is under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Not everyone who is raped is an adult.

Not everyone who is raped is female.

double post

reply to post by ottobot


Why should the drunk scenario not be considered when analyzing statistics like this? If those scenarios make up the majority of 'rapes', then that makes things quite different. I'm not claiming to know that those scenarios actually do make up the majority, just saying that it's important to know what all situations were included in this survey.