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Mitt Romney v.s Gay military veteran

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posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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So i came across this video of a gay veteran asking Mitt Romney about the New Hampshire's gay marriage law.
Now, for some reason when i hear people vilify about gay people (or simply against anything having to do with the same sex) it tends to really bother me inside. Now after listening to Mitt Romney be against gay marriage, makes it clear to me that he's not getting MY vote.


Bob Garon, a 63-year-old gay military veteran, spoke on MSNBC Tuesday about his tense exchange Monday in Manchester, N.H. with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney over same-sex marriage.
Garon was eating breakfast with his husband at Chez Vachon restaurant and was wearing a Vietnam Veteran hat that Romney noticed. Garon asked about New Hampshire's gay marriage law. Romney said he supported the repeal of the law and believed that marriage was between a man and a woman.
"It's good to know how you feel, that you do not believe everyone is entitled to their constitutional rights," Garon replied.
"No, actually, I think at the time the Constitution was written it was pretty clear that marriage is between a man and a woman," Romney replied. "And I don't believe the Supreme Court has changed that." Garon told reporters that "you can't trust" Romney.


Huffingtonpost.com




I live in California but this concerns me because i have a gay cousin that moved to New Hampshire roughly about 18 months ago or so. This cousin of mine and i grew up together, best childhood memories i have are with him. Ever since i can remember most people in our family knew he was going to turn out gay, not a choice of his. When i was 16 he had stayed over my house and ended up confessing to me that he was gay (well first bisexual, then gay) then he completely came out the closet with the rest of the family. No one in our family was sensational about the situation because "they already knew". Iv'e had conversation with my cousin and his partner about marriage and this really makes me sad that gays/lesbians are entitled to less because of their orientations and because of someones own personal opinions. They have also talked about adoption, yes adoption. I personally am ok with that, i want them to have a family and live as happy as possible as they can with a kid they can share their love and affection with.

Now a question for you guys/gals...
How do you feel about gay marriage?
Should this even be something that we should be "voting" for instead of just be "given to us"?
Would your vote FOR or AGAINST gay marriage?
How do you feel about gay/lesbian partners and adoption?
Do you think this can have a negative effect on they child?
I will respect every ones personal opinion.
edit on 14-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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Is Marriage in the constitution?

Mitt has his opinion and the other guy has his, neither is wrong. Mormons don't believe in gay marriage and the other guy does, so you respect both people instead of bashing one side. As it's written the law is equal.....nobody can marry the same sex and everyone can marry the opposite sex.


I believe in civil unions with full benefits fyi.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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I'm glad you broached this subject in such a personal way as your cousin is gay. Here's my thoughts on this controversial subject.

First off, I'm a straight white male, a military veteran, and a registered Republican, but I certainly have my Libertarian streak.

I support gay rights and think gays should be allowed to marry. I don't see where, not even close, in the Constitution of the United States of America where there is the authority to ban it. I think churches should have the right to decide on who they want to marry, but not the government in any way, fashion or form.

Marriage to the government is and should always be viewed merely as a contract between two people. It's a lot like a business contract. I view not letting two consenting people of the same sex enter into a marriage contract the same as the government not letting me enter into a business contract with, let's say a Jew, or someone of color (doesn't matter what color), or anyone for that matter.

I know this will bring up the subject of polygamy, so I do believe marriage should be defined as a contract between two people. I don't care if other nations/religions believe otherwise.

On another note, with the divorce rate so damn high, and the problems that causes (I'm divorced, but no children) with split families, why in the world would anybody be opposed to two people taking a lifelong commitment to each other? Doesn't make sense to me.

And hey! I have a current, ordained priesthood in good standing the the Universal Life Church and I would be happy to marry a gay couple if you are nearby. Won't be recognized by the state of North Carolina, but what the heck, I'll even do a nice pagan hand binding ceremony for you.



edit on 14-12-2011 by tsawyer2 because: added a sentence



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
 


How do you feel about gay/lesbian partners and adoption?
Do you think this can have a negative effect on they child?

I realized that I didn't answer the above questions in my first post.

I support gay/lesbian couples to adopt children, although I do believe a child is better nurtured through childhood with interaction with both sexes. I would hope that a same sex couple would have a strong network of family and friends of both sexes that would be involved in the child's life. Same goes for traditional adoptions.

I think the negative impact will come from the inevitable confrontation that will occur when someone finds out that Johnny has two mommies or two daddies from the other children.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by tsawyer2
 

Well me, im a hispanic straight male. Im not registered as anything because i didn't register in 2008 (18 at the time) because unfortunately Ron Paul didn't make it to primaries. Now i don't consider myself a libertarian but i do agree with most libertarian philosophy.
I strongly agree that marriage should be viewed as just a contract between TWO persons (just like we grew up to understand marriage as 2 persons from the opposite sex). i am very dubious about polygamy tho. BUT i think people should be able to marry anyone/as many people as they desire to. i think it should be one selves decision to do so and not turn it into a "law" that'll prevent anyone from doing it, heck! if that makes them happy. should be "unconditional happiness"

That idea of yours about letting the church decide who they want to marry is a very good idea.

that way anyone can marry whoever they desire, just have to find the place that'll do it.
edit on 14-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
reply to post by tsawyer2
 

Well me, im a hispanic straight male. Im not registered as anything because i didn't register in 2008 (18 at the time) because unfortunately Ron Paul didn't make it to primaries. Now i don't consider myself a libertarian but i do agree with most libertarian philosophy.
I strongly agree that marriage should be viewed as just a contract between TWO persons (just like we grew up to understand marriage as 2 persons from the opposite sex). i am very dubious about polygamy tho. BUT i think people should be able to marry anyone/as many people as they desire to. i think it should be one selves decision to do so and not turn it into a "law" that'll prevent anyone from doing it. That idea of yours about letting the church decide who they want to marry is a very good idea.

that way anyone can marry whoever they desire, just have to find the place that'll do it.
edit on 14-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)


Hey OutStep! It doesn't have to be election time to register. Just contact your local election board or find their website and do it now. I don't care how you register, just do it since it is your right. If you were 18 at the time you could have voted. I think we agree on the same principles.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Fitch303
Is Marriage in the constitution?

Mitt has his opinion and the other guy has his, neither is wrong. Mormons don't believe in gay marriage and the other guy does, so you respect both people instead of bashing one side. As it's written the law is equal.....nobody can marry the same sex and everyone can marry the opposite sex.


I believe in civil unions with full benefits fyi.


Just so you know, granting all the benefits and tax laws to civil unions is ridiculously more difficult than simply redefining marriage to being between two people, regardless of sex. If we stick with civil unions, homosexual relationships will never have the same rights as straight relationships.

That said, I will never side with any of these Republican crazies who think their religious views should influence their politics. It's completely and utterly wrong.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by tsawyer2
 

yes! iv'e actually been procrastinating on that but i know i have to get to it! ugh.

back to topic, meibe you'll find this video interesting. it was posted here on ATS some time ago about a guy being raised by 2 lesbians, i don't know if you ever seen it...



Link



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Varemia
 


Exactly why I think Marriage should be considered a contract between two people. It's that simple. Bringing religion into it is a violation of the Constitution. Churches decide who can marry inside their covenants, not the government.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
 


As a non-Christian gay man, I believe in equality. That's all.
Romney believes in his "utopian" Christian world, and that is dangerous for a country where a leader is supposed to represent the people, not just the Christian people, ALL the people.

Equality will come, whether it's in the next five years, the next ten or the next twenty. And it won't matter who is the president. It'll come because the influence of the religious cults in the West is collapsing under the weight of their out-dated views, their arrogance, and their hypocrisy.
Fewer people are attending church now than ever before and the decline has been going on for decades. That's because the religious organizations are not moving with the times and representing the beliefs of the people they supposedly serve (yeah, serving a community is something religious folk do less and less, ever noticed that?)

They're archaic, filled with old people who dream of the "good old days" when black people couldn't vote, women couldn't be priests and gay people were kept in their little ghettos and arrested once in a while.

They're dinosaurs, and I cannot wait until they become extinct.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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Explanation: S&F!

There is no way in heaven or hell or on earth that OL would even think of entertaining a vote on the issue one way or another BECAUSE it IS an INALIENABLE RIGHT to get married to whoever I want to as long as they are consenting adult!


Voting would turn it from a RIGHT into a LAW!


And we all know the law can and often is an ASS and can be manipulated and possibly even overturned!


Personal Disclosure: Hands off my rights ... or the last resort awaits us all and its no picnic zone!


[Note I am mad that the issue even exists and I am not mad at the OP who I thank for raising this issue!
]



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
 


As a non-Christian gay man, I believe in equality. That's all.
Romney believes in his "utopian" Christian world, and that is dangerous for a country where a leader is supposed to represent the people, not just the Christian people, ALL the people.

Equality will come, whether it's in the next five years, the next ten or the next twenty. And it won't matter who is the president. It'll come because the influence of the religious cults in the West is collapsing under the weight of their out-dated views, their arrogance, and their hypocrisy.
Fewer people are attending church now than ever before and the decline has been going on for decades. That's because the religious organizations are not moving with the times and representing the beliefs of the people they supposedly serve (yeah, serving a community is something religious folk do less and less, ever noticed that?)

They're archaic, filled with old people who dream of the "good old days" when black people couldn't vote, women couldn't be priests and gay people were kept in their little ghettos and arrested once in a while.

They're dinosaurs, and I cannot wait until they become extinct.


you know, you're right about people attending church less and less everyday. I am an atheist myself. i have my own personal reasons why i don't believe in a "greater" being. i put "greater" in quotes because that word and definition is something created by us humans, something will only be greater than oneself's depending on how low you "grade" yourself. meibe we are more powerful than we think we are but, just have no clue how to use exercise those "powers".
i also believe "everything came from nothing", which puts me into the "atheist" category.
bury a book for a few thousand of yrs. based on how people should live their life, what is ethical/moral and unethincal/unmoral or normal/abnormal and right/wrong etc...people would think a god buried it, you'll be the new god in 4,011.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos

Explanation: S&F!

There is no way in heaven or hell or on earth that OL would even think of entertaining a vote on the issue one way or another BECAUSE it IS an INALIENABLE RIGHT to get married to whoever I want to as long as they are consenting adult!


Voting would turn it from a RIGHT into a LAW!


And we all know the law can and often is an ASS and can be manipulated and possibly even overturned!


Personal Disclosure: Hands off my rights ... or the last resort awaits us all and its no picnic zone!


[Note I am mad that the issue even exists and I am not mad at the OP who I thank for raising this issue!
]


thank you, having a gay cousin, that i actually consider a brother, hurts me to hear things like this having to be voted on, i find it very absurd.
constructing laws is what "limits our freedom" or slowly takes them away.
edit on 14-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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I can totally respect Romney's opinion on the matter. But that's just it.. it is his OPINION. Government has no business being involved in marriage. It is a religious issue at most and a social issue at the least, and always a personal matter. It is only because our government has this strange notion that it needs to authorize marriage that this is even an issue in the first place.

DOMA needs to be repealed and marriage as a whole struck from every law on the books in D.C. If the states want to discuss it further, that's their perogative, although, I still feel it is incorrect at that level of government as well.

I 100% support churches being able to decide who they wish to perform a marriage ceremony for or not. I do not support at all having government have any say in the matter. That's one of the things I love about Ron Paul's platform.. he shares my view on the matter.
edit on 12-14-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 07:26 AM
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Being the father of a lesbian daughter, I don't see how the government has any right to dictate my morality for me or my family. Who someone want to live their life with is no one's business but their own. Why should we keep people from being together and being able to support one another? Load of BS. I am pretty much a conservative, but there are some things I just can't stand from the right, and this is one of them.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by haarvik
Being the father of a lesbian daughter, I don't see how the government has any right to dictate my morality for me or my family. Who someone want to live their life with is no one's business but their own. Why should we keep people from being together and being able to support one another? Load of BS. I am pretty much a conservative, but there are some things I just can't stand from the right, and this is one of them.


if you didn't have a lesbian daughter do you think you would have an complete about phase about your opinions in this situation?



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld

Now a question for you guys/gals...
How do you feel about gay marriage?
Should this even be something that we should be "voting" for instead of just be "given to us"?
Would your vote FOR or AGAINST gay marriage?
How do you feel about gay/lesbian partners and adoption?
Do you think this can have a negative effect on they child?
I will respect every ones personal opinion


Quite simple really - I don't give a hoot about gay marriage. I could care less as it does not directly affect me, my family, my kids or my wife.
For me to say "yes it does" simply means I'm sticking my nose into someone else's personal business just like these idiots in Washington who think they can dictate policy over personal lifestyles.
edit on 15-12-2011 by TXRabbit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Thank you for doing this thread, I was freaking out earlier because I couldn't
find a thing about it on ATS. I haven't done my first thread yet because I'm new
and I'm on an iPad,so I haven't gotten the hang of putting a thread together
with media or off-site content.
No biggie I didn't come to ATS to start threads.
But the fact that this topic isnt huge on this site is bugging me,
because it is big news. I believe this is something fundamental
we have to deal with as a country.
I just banned myself from political forums, for a bit, because I was getting
too worked up essentially fighting far right conservative viewpoints,
if you are a liberal on ATS you know what I mean.
As far as I'm concerned ,Conservatives can have the stand
that they are against same sex marriage.
As long as they act like Americans and don't stop other Americans from their liberties.
If you have the view that you would stop same sex marriage if you had the power, that's a
fundamental problem we're gonna have.
Because it is hateful stand. You are oppressing a group of Americans
that are not, in any way, infringing on your rights.
It's really un-American to have policy level prejudice.
Like I said, have any viewpoint you wish, but your ideology can not oppress other Americans.
Also if the person you vote for oppresses Americans, please stop. That's not helping.
That's why we're different, we take all races and creeds and all races and creeds
let the others be. Or at least that's the idea.
Ok my political forum ban (for a while) starts now.




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