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Republicans continue on their quest to destroy everything the U.S. stands for.

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posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Rumsfield???
Oh come on.
Look, I despise 0bama, but I really don't like Bush and the Admin with him.




posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Rumsfield???
Oh come on.
Look, I despise 0bama, but I really don't like Bush and the Admin with him.


Bush was the village idiot and cheney was the halliburton man, BUT rumsfeld was above the cut man. I mean BIG TIME above the cut. He got messed up by associating himself with the wrong people. You should watch that video...it is hair raising accurate especially one day prior 9-11.

The pentagon was hit on purpose to cover-up the paper trail of some serious "out-of-this-world" spending. Like cia spending money to bribe foreign governments, deep underground military bunkers and reverse enginering ufo technology.

Donald Rumsfeld has 100% my respect and then some. Ron Paul is controlled opposition who whines too much and then comes up with bad ideas. Just my opinion for what it is worth!!!



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


I would say there are a lot of good ideas here, but I don't agree with all of them.


First, stop the crap of Nation Building/Rebuilding. If a nation flexes its muscle at us, and has the means to back it up, scorched earth and move on to the next item of the day.


I agree, this sort of problem should be dealt with under trade treaties.


Complete either the flat tax or fair fax, abolish the IRS. FOR EVERYONE, even businesses.


All fed taxes should come from interstate and international trade. Average people who do not engage in trade at those levels should have very little in federal taxes. Fed taxes should be much more user related.


Return Education back to the States, where it belongs, abolish the Failed Department of Un-Education.


Far as I am concenrned it is the states that screw up our nations educational system, and the red states are the worst offenders. The fed gov should set educational standards. The bigger screwed up system is where you have to pay huge amounts of money to these universities that turn out nothing but programmed conformists, in order to be eligable to get most high paying jobs. Set up standardized testing for all acceptable qualification standards. Those should be the only qualifiers to work in fields requiring such qualifiers.


Stop aid to foreign countries, at the very least until our budget is balanced.


Yeah, and stop all immigration until unemployment reaches a reasonable level. It is young people who get screwed the most by these high immigration rates which lock people out of entry level jobs.


Balance the budget, every year.


Tell that to the conservatives/republicans. Who should pay off that enourmous debt the conservatives/republicans created under the last 3 conservatives/republicans admins? How about the people who benefitted the most during the time the debt was created, which would be the super rich.

The fact is that Reagan, Bush, and Bush along with their conservatives/republican allies conspired and pulled off the greatest wealth redistribution in history, stealing from the workers, and giving to the con artists.



Abolish the DEA and legalize Marijuana. If people want to pollute their body, it is their right to do so.


Completely agree, and allow hemp for industrialized products as well. This has to be the most egregious abuse of currently existing law. Clearly this is an area where the U.S. constitution has been completely ignored.


Scale back Social programs and handouts. 6 months on all benefits.


I agree. In a nation as rich as ours, with our current ability to produce more than we consume, I don't mind helping out the truly needy, but the system as it currently stands, is messed up.

At the same time, if someone is putting in a 40 hour work week, they should be able to afford a minimal level of shelter and subsistence. Illegal immigration has robbed people on the lower end of the scale of the ability to survive with dignity. Not everybody is going to be high tech, some people are only going to get the lower levels of work, but if they are working, they should be earning enough to survive. Back in the sixities, a janitor could afford a modest home, and enough to raise future janitors, and there is no reason why it should not still be this way when we are now far more productive. A rigged labor market which is giving way to the rise in slavery world wide is not something we should tolerate.


Stop bailing out banks and GM. If they can't operate as they are correctly structured, then they either fail or restructure.


Then they should also grab back those giant bonuses the CEOs gave themselves while bankrupting those companies. Allowing those companies to fail would have stripped a great deal of wealth from a lot of people who got screwed over by a whole lot of fraudulent business practices.

The better answer is to not allow this fraud to be perpetrated in the first place, and that means putting checks and balances in place to prevent corrupt business practices.

We all got screwed by what was allowed to happen over the last ten years since banking deregulation was passed.


Bring back the Gold standard, end the Federal Reserve.


I don't buy the gold standard concept. Labor and ideas are what create wealth. How about creating fed treas notes, and let the fed res notes serve as the worlds money standard, separate from the people of the U.S.. It is time we started treating these International Corporations as what they are, entities that are not a part of the U.S., and certainly not equals with U.S. citizens, when it comes to government priorities.


March 0bama, Geithner, Napolitano, Frank and others into criminal proceedings.


March Cheney and the entire Bush family first.


edit on 20-12-2011 by poet1b because: missing comment on drug laws
edit on 20-12-2011 by poet1b because: spelling



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Oh, don't please don't think I am ignoring your posts from last night.
I read them, and need some time to ponder and research for a response.
The topic we were discussing requires a lot of research and study.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Oh, don't please don't think I am ignoring your posts from last night.
I read them, and need some time to ponder and research for a response.
The topic we were discussing requires a lot of research and study.


No worries. Some topics are too far fetched to believed at once, but at least you are not like neo96 who made some snark remarks and quit. What happened to that dude anyway? His poor grammer skills were something to behold!





posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 



Just because the government has been infiltrated by big business does not invalidate its position. It simply means it has been corrupted and needs to become uncorrupted. Like going down into a ship's bildge and removing the filth.


Nice illustration.

What a surprise that the people who have corrupted government, now claim it is hopelessly ruined, and that there should be no attempt at fixing what they have intentionally attempted to break.

While government can be abusive, representaive government has been shown to be the best form, while government by corporation, which is fascism has been shown to be the absolute worst. The whole "free market" marketing phrase has been quite an excellent con.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Originally posted by poet1b
I agree, this sort of problem should be dealt with under trade treaties.

Don't agree with that.
That just brings us back to where we are.
It should be very black or white.
Are you a threat? Take Iran for example.
Iran's Govt has stated they wish to wipe us off the map.
Do they have the means to do so. If and when proven? First strike. Strike hard, strike fast. Be done with it.


Originally posted by poet1b
All fed taxes should come from interstate and international trade. Average people who do not engage in trade at those levels should have very little in federal taxes. Fed taxes should be much more user related.

Then business is still taxed unfairly.
If there is to be a tax, all pay, not some and not a select few.
What you suggest still provides a path for corrupt Govt to do what it does best, stay corrupt and steal.


Originally posted by poet1b
Far as I am concenrned it is the states that screw up our nations educational system, and the red states are the worst offenders. The fed gov should set educational standards. The bigger screwed up system is where you have to pay huge amounts of money to these universities that turn out nothing but programmed conformists, in order to be eligable to get most high paying jobs. Set up standardized testing for all acceptable qualification standards. Those should be the only qualifiers to work in fields requiring such qualifiers.

It is still the States responsibility, not Central planning Fed Govt.
As the state produces a failed educations system, has no way of creating a pathway for the young to educate themselves, the State suffers the bad decisions.
Those, providing for how the Americas were designed. A union of individual States. If you don't like one, you move to another. The option being there.
Standardized testing is along the same path of the failed "No Child Left Behind" crap.
Let companies and the groups that are created be in control of certifications and so on. The Govt has no business in this, as they do not govern areas like Networks or welding.


Originally posted by poet1b
Yeah, and stop all immigration until unemployment reaches a reasonable level. It is young people who get screwed the most by these high immigration rates which lock people out of entry level jobs.

No. LEGAL immigration is good, as it provides competition. That drives people to be better then others.
The real issue is illegal immigrants.


Originally posted by poet1b
Tell that to the conservatives/republicans. Who should pay off that enourmous debt the conservatives/republicans created under the last 3 conservatives/republicans admins? How about the people who benefitted the most during the time the debt was created, which would be the super rich.

Oh give me a break.
Both sides pull this crap. Neither want to restrain themselves.


Originally posted by poet1b

The fact is that Reagan, Bush, and Bush along with their conservatives/republican allies conspired and pulled off the greatest wealth redistribution in history, stealing from the workers, and giving to the con artists.

Again with the Evil Reps. The Dems pull the same crap.


Originally posted by poet1b
Completely agree, and allow hemp for industrialized products as well. This has to be the most egregorous abuse of currently existing law. Clearly this is an area where the U.S. constitution has been completely ignored.

Agreed.



Originally posted by poet1b
I agree. In a nation as rich as ours, with our current ability to produce more than we consume, I don't mind helping out the truly needy, but the system as it currently stands, is messed up.

When I see a wife/mother buying basic food items with food stamps, and the husband/dad pulling out cash to buy beer and such is where I draw the line.
The Govt can't be the great provider of stuff. People get 6 months unemployment. 6 months food stamps and so on. All within a 3-5 year period.


Continued in next post.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Originally posted by poet1b
At the same time, if someone is putting in a 40 hour work week, they should be able to afford a minimal level of shelter and subsistence. Illegal immigration has robbed people on the lower end of the scale of the ability to survive with dignity. Not everybody is going to be high tech, some people are only going to get the lower levels of work, but if they are working, they should be earning enough to survive. Back in the sixities, a janitor could afford a modest home, and enough to raise future janitors, and there is no reason why it should not still be this way when we are now far more productive. A rigged labor market which is giving way to the rise in slavery world wide is not something we should tolerate.

Illegals are a huge issue.
But, regardless of you work 10 hours a week or 80. You get paid for the work you do, at the going rate. Not as the Govt dictates.
The idea that a janitor can't afford this or that might mean they should be pushing forth in a career that pays more. Being stagnant in a job is the fault of the person, no one else.


Originally posted by poet1b
Then they should also grab back those giant bonuses the CEOs gave themselves while bankrupting those companies. Allowing those companies to fail would have stripped a great deal of wealth from a lot of people who got screwed over by a whole lot of fraudulent business practices.

The bonuses really aren't the issue. If the company were allowed to fail, then the company could not have provided the bonus.
As for the worker? The choice to work there is not the burden of the rest.
And putting your retirement or investments in a business is still a risk. Much like betting in Vegas.


Originally posted by poet1b
The better answer is to not allow this fraud to be perpetrated in the first place, and that means putting checks and balances in place to prevent corrupt business practices.

Those measures are already in place, but like most laws, the Govt ignores them, doesn't enforce and then a new crop of people want more and newer laws. Enforce what is there.


Originally posted by poet1b
I don't buy the gold standard concept. Labor and ideas are what create wealth. How about creating fed treas notes, and let the fed res notes serve as the worlds money standard, separate from the people of the U.S.. It is time we started treating these International Corporations as what they are, entities that are not a part of the U.S., and certainly not equals with U.S. citizens, when it comes to government priorities.

It is still a paper IOU, with only a promise from a corrupt Govt as the backing.
As for treatment? Follow what I have proposed and those things will have to fall in line, or the company will not succeed and fail.


Originally posted by poet1b
March Cheney and the entire Bush family first.

Why first?
Left vs right crap, still!!!
All!



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Oh, don't please don't think I am ignoring your posts from last night.
I read them, and need some time to ponder and research for a response.
The topic we were discussing requires a lot of research and study.


No worries. Some topics are too far fetched to believed at once, but at least you are not like neo96 who made some snark remarks and quit. What happened to that dude anyway? His poor grammer skills were something to behold!




Don't know, as I did not know it was my turn to watch him.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


From my understanding, Cheney is Rumsfeld's prodigy, and Rumsfeld was also involved in a lot of questionable practices under Nixon.

Although I would put him a cut above GW and Cheney.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


If our government concentrated on defending out borders, instead of defending the ICB empire, then we wouldn't have to worry about a backward nation like Iran.

Why should average working people be stuck paying for corporate welfare and all those red state pork barrel projects? Corporate welfare makes government more corrupt than anything. If the ICBs had to pay for all those international wars, you could bet there would be a whole lot less of them.

What you call for is U.S. worker subsidization of international business.

Standards in education should exist for the same reasons all standards exist. How can you not get this?

Legal immigration is not good when it only exists to lower wages and salaries.

What you want is a labor market rigged in favor of ICBs, where U.S. workers are expected to compete with slave workers from foriegn nations.

Get rid of the illegals and lower level wages will rise. One of the major ways the Reagan, Bush, and Bush admins with their conservative/republican allies have screwed U.S. workers is by ignoring the laws, and allowing illegal workers to flood into the U.S. labor market.

You want to live in denial about the actions that conservative/republicans have pursued, it is your choice. I have no such delusions. Again, while some democrats have contributed to this, most of them were very conservatvie democrats, the conservative have pushed for the actions that have been the greatest corruptors of our government.

As far as corporate bonuses are concerned, it is easy to rig the system so that the bonus check clears before investors figure out they have been scammed. This is just crap you are spewing.

The laws were changed by Newt and his fellow dereg free market preaching repubs. Stop ignoring reality.

Why first? Like you aren't fully bought into the repub verses dem crap.

What pretentious nonsense.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Your tax dollars are work, Daddy's little princess spends outragious amounts of money on an apartment. Isn't corporate welfare great.

Why shouldn't this upset people any more than a guy whose wife is buying groceries with welfare checks be buying beer with cash. These ICBs get far more money from corporate welfare.

finance.yahoo.com...


Former Citigroup chairman Sandy Weill listed his 6,744-sq-ft apartment at 15 Central Park West for an astonishing $88 million in November, promising to donate the proceeds of the sale to charity.

Now comes news that Ekaterina Rybolovleva, the 22-year-old daughter of Russian billionaire Dmitriy Rybolovlev, is buying the condominium.


I wonder where that money trail would lead.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

What you want is a labor market rigged in favor of ICBs, where U.S. workers are expected to compete with slave workers from foriegn nations.


And that is the most annoying aspect of everything being done intentionally!

Between the lack of tariffs and illegal central&south americans flooding the USA for jobs, wages stay low and unions lose their collective bargaining ability as they are constantly demonised by the conservative lobby/think tanks.

All these people support Ron Paul, because he is more extreme in his privitisation and small government BS agenda. When you criticise him everyone rushes to his aid, especially on ATS which is a haven for all conservatives.

Anyone who thinks republicans are bad better not touch the libertarians with a 50 foot flag pole. They are the ones that cost america a downgrade in credit this past summer and keep pressuring the republicans to work harder to destroy america.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire

Republicans can't run on there record, red states have the worst education, poverty, income, roads and bridges, unemployment, crime, incarceration rate, executions and a host of other issues.

Yet people continue to vote for them, its amazing really.


Really? and here i thought it was the contrary... From New York, to Illinois, and California, the states with the worse education, crime, incarceration rate, and unemployment are LETWINGER states.

Heck, in Wyoming you can still leave your car with the keys inside, and running, and you can go inside the gas station to buy coffee, and with several people around you and your car/truck won't be stolen...

Who is more likely to be involved in a crime? for example, someone smoking marijuana, decide to drive and have an accident killing somebody?, or being caught selling marijuana, or other drugs? a conservative/RepublicanConstitutionalist, or a leftwinger?...

And don't get me started with the Ghetos, and ganglands, and those people are LEFTWINGERS as well...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
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Anyone who thinks republicans are bad better not touch the libertarians with a 50 foot flag pole. They are the ones that cost america a downgrade in credit this past summer and keep pressuring the republicans to work harder to destroy america.


Meanwhile there are RINOs in Congress, and the House who are doing a disservice to the U.S. and Americans, we owe the problems we currently ahve to "PROGRESS" and "LEFTWINGERS/PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS"...

From the Feds, which we know have stolen up to $13 trillion dollars, and Obama himself claimed "we don't know where that money went", to using tactics like threatening Senators, who would not bow down to the Feds, that the Feds would bankrupt the U.S. if Senators do not do as the Feds commands them, and other nefarious tactics.

To the IRS, and their countless taxes which are UnConstitutional, and these two institutions, among others, were put in power by LEFTWINGERS back in 1913...

In the name of "PROGRESS" leftists ideas, and programs have been implemented for almost 100 years which ahs been destroying this nation...



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You again? Haven't I embarrassed you enough?

The Republicans and Democrats of today are not the same groups that lived a century ago as there roles were reversed and another century back were 2 sides of the same party fighting the Federalists and The Whigs! Hence why the first like 8 POTUS weren't either! You want a return to Constitutional ideals right? Get rid of both the jackasses and the pachyderms!

Systematic deregulation under Reagan, 41, Clinton and 43 all led us to where we are at. This wasn't done overnight and will not be undone overnight.

Look at the chart from this post :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let's look at some facts shall we? :
www.usdebtclock.org...
Year - Operating and overall debts (in trillions)
2000 - $5.67 - $27.09
2004 - $7.58 - $37.73
2008 - $10.66 - $50.87
2011 - $15.14 - $56.39

You were saying? Who doubled both the operating and overall debts? That's right 43 and Company! If we would've followed to a "T" the Clinton plan we would've had an operating surplus and would've been near debt free by now but the fact 43 put 2 wars on the card somehow doesn't matter?

Hook, line, sinker, SUNK!
edit on 22-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Correction, The GOP did not cause a downgrade, it was the sole doing of The SCUM because collectively we all are waking up to their evil and maniacal plan and flat out refuse to submit.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Rumsfield???
Oh come on.
Look, I despise 0bama, but I really don't like Bush and the Admin with him.





Did you really dislike Bush both times you voted for him as much as you really dislike Bush enough to vote in one of his clones next year or is there something old and not the least bit genuine about that statement.
Bush was voted in twice and yet he is a progressive and no conservatives ever voted for him and none of them plan on basically electing him again given the choices.

Sure.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Really? and here i thought it was the contrary... From New York, to Illinois, and California, the states with the worse education, crime, incarceration rate, and unemployment are LETWINGER states.


You have no clue what you are talking about because you are apparently another one of these geography majors that thinks that NYC represents NYS. NY is mostly rural and my doors are all unlocked and my keys are in my car right now. I bet I can find a bad city in any state you like and blame the entire state just like you did.



posted on Dec, 22 2011 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by macman


And again, business is there to create wealth for the owner.
The only time it is not, is in those fantastically successful places like USSR, Cuba and the rest.



Please explain.
The only point of my business is to create wealth for me, the owner.


What is there to explain.
I create a business not to provide jobs to others, but to provide a job for myself and create wealth.
Not very hard to understand.


Exactly what I asked you to explain. You just type random things, don't you? I just asked you to explain what YOU MEANT by what YOU WROTE and you do not know? What I am asking you to explain is the last part, that is kind of obvious since I already stated the point of my business to me is the same as the point of your business to you.
Either you are purposely dancing around the fact that you cannot explain your nonsense or you forgot to read before replying. Try again.





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