We are all in heaven NOW

I just want to let you know that I 100% understand what you are saying,

and I 100% understand why we can laugh at the ones who do not understand. It's right there in front of them and they do not see it. Life is what we make of it. The only thing you can control is you.

&& they definitely don't understand how some of the people who have been through the worst things are the happiest, and vice versa.. It's all about perspective.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by daskakik

 

Because this place is heaven. It is life but life is heavenly.

I have carefully been following this thread. In the beginning, I disagreed with your wording and then decided to go along with the notion that "maybe" you intended the use of the word "heaven" as a happy state of mind instead of literally, which you even agreed was your intent. At times you were even defining your meaning better. Now, some posters are asking you how can one be happy when they suffer, feel pain, torture, when children are harmed even murdered etc., and your answer is just be happy because "This place is heaven"! I must be missing something.

At this point, you seem to be delusional. I really do not mean to insult you however, this needs to be said to you and for more than one reason. We all have the choice to decide what happiness, heaven, hell etc., etc., means to each of us. But the fact that you constantly dish out the idea that "this place is heaven" has led me to believe that "this place" must only be in your head as it seems you have been unable to reason with those that disagree with you when faced with certain questions. As a matter of fact, you seem to ignore them mostly.

I do not believe that any one of the posters is attempting to force you to change your idea of "your heaven", but when you're faced with certain questions like the murders of children, the rape of women and these types of issues, you completely resort back to...just be happy because "this place is heaven".

Is "this place" where you are, i.e. in your head or are you meaning the entire planet? Where is this place in relation to you?

This thread has become very awkward. Remember, I'm not trying to insult you I am trying to understand...this is a very unusual thread IMO and worth understanding.

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


All of existence (and this plant) is heaven, although when a person goes into a negative perspective they forget that, and this is where the whole "heavenly perspective" / mind comes into play.

reply to post by arpgme


I understand this and I feel that your message is intended as a good message indeed BUT, when the innocent and helpless children suffer at the hands of another person, how are they supposed to feel any sort of happiness?

I know that's kind of redundant in relation to "your definition", but I don't see how a child should "know" to feel happy when they're being abused and usually at the hands of those that should be providing them with the state of mind of "happiness".

Isn't happiness a learned trait?

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


Everyone starts off with happiness until they possibly lose it later.

reply to post by theovermensch


Yes, they could. The situation they are in is not fate, it is a consequence of human factors. It is artificial. Sure it is not pleasant but if we changed our behaviours and worked together we could appreciate the heaven this planet IS.

Click here for more information.

You say this world is heaven? Let me give the Islamic view of this world for the benefit of everyone, hopefully it will add to the discussion and actually it is similar to what alot of the replies here have said:

This world is a combination of heaven and hell, there are aspects of both present in this world. It is a short lived habitat for the people to enter into so their actions and intentions can be seen which will then be judged and people will be rewarded and punished accordingly in the hereafter.

Why this world isnt heaven:
-some day we will all die, in the Quran god says that "every soul shall taste death". (and quit with the argument that you cannot say that I will 'definately' die because all previous information supports the view that we will all die one day)
-Illness, disease, our bodies are far from perfect, we consume and have waste products and fluids, our bodies can be damaged, they age and deteriorate with the passage of time (on a side not its interesting to note that had we been created differently, our bodies could 'never age' and there is no evolutionary reason for our dna to 'want to age' but it is hardcoded into our creation. Again as this world is not meant to be eternal but just as a short place of test)
-Everything in this world ultimately deteriorates and dies. Even if i buy a new car, eventually it will rust and corrode and become more inefficient, even with maintanance it has a finite lifespan. If i buy a new house, a palace even, if I don't maintain it, clean it, renovate it, it will become unclean, things will stop working and bits will start falling off, it will deteriorate, it is the nature of this world.
-I could go on but you get my point i guess.

Why this world isnt Hell:
- There is goodness in alot of this world, positive emotions and relationships, freindship, love, hope, compassion, the joy one feels in his heart when accomplashing something, these are all aspects which have no place in Hell.

I don't mean any personal offence, but i think the OP is a little detatched from the reality around them, as much as we try to reinforce positive emotions or a state of mind that puts us in a good or happy place, or 'heaven', we have to link it to the reality around us. How can you think you are in heaven when you KNOW that people are starving, are being oppressed by tyrants, are suffering? Just the mere fact that you know this to be true should tell you that you are not in heaven!

reply to post by Kamza


The reason why you can't see this world as the heaven that it really is, is because you think "death" is bad...


Death is a part of life, you sort of have to get over your "negativity" of it and just live your life if you want to be happy and experience this heaven for what it truly is...

Is Herman Cain happy?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Kamza

 

The reason why you can't see this world as the heaven that it really is, is because you think "death" is bad...


Death is a part of life, you sort of have to get over your "negativity" of it and just live your life if you want to be happy and experience this heaven for what it truly is...

Death really isn't bad, in fact many cultures celebrate it when a loved one passes on.
"this heaven for what it truly is" isn't exactly what I would call heaven, not with all the killing on this Planet, this place Sucks!

reply to post by arpgme


i second that emotionnnn

reply to post by arpgme


Yep you're right, death isn't always negative, even Islamically we aren't supposed to greive past three days, although it is natural to miss someone who you were close with that passed away. I think the point is that in Heaven wouldn't you want to live forever? In this world we are limited in so many ways... we need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep, work to earn money, we get tired, we need to clean ourselves, go to use the toilet. This is not heaven, in heaven I would not be restricted by these things, my choices would not be restricted by these things.

I think we may have different views of what heaven is, and perhaps how we are using the word. I agree that yes it is important to have a positive view of this world, to be optimistic, and hope for the best. As muslims we're supposed to stay positive and not get down, but at the same time we know that this world is not perfect, it is not our eternal abode. As humans we all desire peace and perfection, if you try and find that in this world, you will not, you will always find some shortcoming. As a Muslim I have peace because I know that this world is temporary and that if I conduct myself according to how the one who created me wants, that I may enter heaven. I guess perhaps what we are both saying is that Heaven on earth is to be satisfied with what you are doing?

However there is a Heaven that is eternal, where there is no fatigue, no sleep, no death, no disease, where you will have true peace and security, where tyrants do not rule over you or dictate their will upon, where you don't need to watch the news and hear of the evil that is everywhere, that is the true heaven, and nothing can compare to it,

reply to post by Kamza


what prove them belonging to hell is what they refuse to act responsable of their most subjective will

if heaven as he says is a state of mind perspective, why dont he really do smthg positive objectively since he is alone there
it is all to language hypocrisies, where ones enjoy taking advantages of any before them from what they take their freedom for granted already as a possession right to

freedom right is exclusively to individual responsable acts that know existence being to superiority constancy ending in absolute positive value that confirm while justifying superior constant being present truth

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

The life experience you are experiencing is only ever this present experience. It is blank until we write on it. I can write i am sad and then that is the picture. I can say 'later, i will be happy' and the picture drawn is 'not happy yet'.
It is ok to stay as the blank canvas and allow the life that is shinning presently to be seen as it is without words, the words are 'our' (ego) projected picture.
The names and labels we give to everything color the world we live in.
See what life is like without the labels.

edit on 10-12-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That is a very interesting theory, I'll give you that. The labels you speak of though I tend to call emotions. These emotions have been honed from years of different experiences and I see no way of harnessing them at will.

Only when they show themselves am I able to determine if they are constructive for me or not. If the emotions are not constructive, I'll get myself out the the situation that is giving me those emotiions as fast as I can. If the emotions are contructive, I'll go with with it. If, as in the case I previously pointed out, the emotions are "on the boder" so to speak, I'm going to hang on to them because there is the possibility that they can be positive later on.

What I do though is try to keep myself in situations where my emotions don't get the better of me, but I'm human. That doesn't always happen.

if this were heaven you are saying to me that heaven is cursed...This world is cursed with evil and evil cannot dwell in heaven...If you choose to believe this is heaven that is your own choice and that means there is no better place then this hell we all live in...LOL.......cant wait to get to the real heaven where there is peace and kindness,no lies,murder.rape,adulatory ect......to say this planet is heaven leaves god a lier and god does not lie..

Now if you choose to make the best of it and feel its heaven then Amen to you...just wait until you really get to heaven...

reply to post by eeks4


Well, I guess that's your choice, to think that this world is "cursed" and that something is "wrong" with it. But you can change that perspective today and feel heaven now if you really wanted to.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by eeks4

 

Well, I guess that's your choice, to think that this world is "cursed" and that something is "wrong" with it. But you can change that perspective today and feel heaven now if you really wanted to.

Yes you are correct in what you are saying...Yes you are...But if you know the word of God you will see that this is a cursed land we are living on...Its starts back with Lucifer and Adam and eve....If you put Jesus in your heart and soul and keep them there yes you will see the buety in all things this i agree with...But the eart is not heaven at least not any more cause evil can not dwell in heaven..It is written

reply to post by eeks4


Again, this is just your belief. You have the choice to change it to feel better.

There are religions where no matter who you are you must go to hell to purify your sins, and there are religions where you have absolutely no free-will because the rules are so strict. At least you aren't in a religion like that, but you can still do better. You deserve a better outlook on life.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1

 

All of existence (and this plant) is heaven, although when a person goes into a negative perspective they forget that, and this is where the whole "heavenly perspective" / mind comes into play.

I'm going to go on the record here and say that I understand what you're saying and I agree with it........to a point.

There are times when it's all a matter of perspective but there are also times when a person has no control over what their perspective is going to be. No matter what you choose to believe, there isn't one human alive who is in control of everything in their life at all times. We may be at the top of the food chain, but we're not THAT powerful.

There are times when a person has no choice but to take a negative perspective on things. This doesn't mean that they forget what a positive perspective is, it just means that they're not there at that point in time.

I do agree however that there is something positive that people can take out of any negative situation, no matter how bad it is at the time. How? Because suffering doesn't last forever. Even if a child is born addicted to heroin to abusive parents and lives 10 years in an absolute physical and emotional hell before he/she dies unnoticed and unloved by anyone, the positive thing about it all is that when that child does pass away, he/she is definitely going to a better place.

How do we know that when no one knows for certain what the other side holds? We don't know for certain, but we do have faith that the other side does not have the same thing in store for that child as this side did. That's where the positiveness comes into play. Faith. Sometimes that's all people have to hold onto to keep them smiling. And that my friend is human nature for you. No matter how bad things are at the time, we have that little thing called faith that can shine a light in the darkest of places. The evil that this world holds.

This life is not heaven OP, sorry. If you are constantly learning and evolving as you go, which I sincerely hope you are, then this life, almost by definition, is a jouney; not a destination. If your idea of heaven is that we are all CAPABLE of smiling all the time, then yes....we are in heaven. But that's a generaliztion that I think you're going to be alone with for a very long time because, as The Dr's Wife pointed out, everyone else has feelings of compassion toward other people who are suffering. You don't seem to have that however because you choose to put a blanket of generaliztion over EVERYTHING. You need to loosen the strings a bit and realize that feeling sad for someone who is in a bad situation is not going to keep you from being happy forever. Just for a short period of time so you can show a little compassion for your fellow man. And if you think about.... that's something to smile about isn't it?