Federal Agents Demand Customer Lists From Mormon Food Storage Facility, page 14

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reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 12:15 PM by burntheships

Update

We have pulled this story about the Mormon cannery being visited by federal agents because the source of the information at the cannery is now denying that he ever told us that event occurred.

From now on, we will NOT post any such story based on what we are told by other people unless, and until, they are willing to go on video or at least on an audio recording with their info. That way, in case someone starts to crumble under the public attention or other pressures, and wants to deny what they told us, we have video or audio proof.

We get all kinds of scary intel, all the time, and we rarely pass it on because we don’t have confirming documentation. In this case, we were relying on a confirmed eye witness who is now denying it. We will not do that again without a recording. url

So, Oathkeepers is now pointing the finger back at the Cannery, saying they backed out after pressure.
I dont really consider this to be a hoax.

Who knows who to believe? Everyone will have an opinion...

I have this to say, the times are ripe for this type of manipulation. Just who is doing the manipulation
is not really clear, but we can see just how headlines can be manipulated.

But one thing remains very clear...and that is the disinigration that is taking place in the financial
sector of society, in the U.S. and everywhere.

So, in my opinion, this is good practice for all of us, and this wont be the last time
we get excercised before the collapse comes.

edit on 12-12-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 12:50 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by burntheships

Update

We have pulled this story about the Mormon cannery being visited by federal agents because the source of the information at the cannery is now denying that he ever told us that event occurred.

From now on, we will NOT post any such story based on what we are told by other people unless, and until, they are willing to go on video or at least on an audio recording with their info. That way, in case someone starts to crumble under the public attention or other pressures, and wants to deny what they told us, we have video or audio proof.

We get all kinds of scary intel, all the time, and we rarely pass it on because we don’t have confirming documentation. In this case, we were relying on a confirmed eye witness who is now denying it. We will not do that again without a recording. url

I knew something didnt sound right about this whole deal, and there is the proof.

Oathkeepers should be ashamed. At least they apologized and vowed to increase their vigilance. Hopefully it doesnt happen again. And more importantly, hopefully they did not make the whole thing up and crumble under pressure when people demanded a source. Why are they not releasing the name of said source?

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 12:59 PM by burntheships

Originally posted by nightbringr

Oathkeepers should be ashamed. At least they apologized and vowed to increase their vigilance.

I think the apology is enough, I would like to gently say why.

What if it is real, and it happened? Then why would Oath Keepers need to be ashamed?

As Dan Bones pointed out in his most excellent post, it is illegal under the Patriot Act
to warn others investigated under Federal Investigation.

Originally posted by Danbones

there are provisions in the patriot act that says if the government is asking questions it is ILLEGAL to warn the person being questioned about...

so the church may be retracting the story for that reason

In any case RSB made the point that having 7 days of stored food classifies one as a terrorist
as does having, like his grandma, a missing finger...

here note the word "secretly" being its the mormon church affiliation
the retraction may have been forced

Prior to the Patriot Act, records were defined as being limited “pieces of information, such as
hotel registrations, car rentals, and storage unit rentals.”27 Modified by the Patriot Act,
investigators may obtain and analyze a wide range of records that include anything “tangible”
(including books, records, papers, documents, and other items). This substantial difference permits
law enforcement agencies to access virtually any form of information in any format and quantity
loosely related to the heart of an investigation.28 The vagueness of the word tangible opens
doors to “fishing” expeditions instead of law enforcement being required to specify its
investigative intent.

The FBI’s power to demand, through the use of National Security Letters
(NSL), that companies secretly turn over personal records of customers,
suppliers and employees has limited review by judges and leaves companies with
little recourse.

Companies are compelled to provide sensitive customer information without the
right to question why, seek judicial counsel or even acknowledge being directed to provide
information in the first place.

.....This right to secretly demand information from private companies breeds and recruits
them to possibly become second order spies who are in direct contact with the average citizen.

www.dtic.mil...

edit on 12-12-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 01:07 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by burntheships
As Dan Bones pointed out in his most excellent post, it is illegal under the Patriot Act
to warn others investigated under Federal Investigation.

Your kidding me? That is wrong on several levels. I can certainly see why someone would retract their statement to the press in that case. Fair enough. Just one more reason to hate the Patriot Act.

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 02:01 PM by burntheships

reply to post by nightbringr

I wish I was kidding.
Dans post is here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 06:21 PM by Danbones

reply to post by Saucerwench

link are you blind?
see above means see above
thats a .mil address BTW

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 06:28 PM by Danbones

reply to post by nightbringr

I posted a .mil link back there which explains the situation un ambigiously

regardless whether this story is a plant to discredit alternative news sites and the oath keeprs
which is a posibility the fact remains... it is GESHTAPO redux

see my post

If AJ made a mistake it certainly isn't in the same league as
fox deliberately passing greek demonstrations off as russian ones..
or the US not prosecuting Jon Corzine
or that publicc relations firm that deliberately lied about Iraqs ripping babies out of Incubators in Iraq
or
WMD in Iraq

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 09:25 PM by SkipperJohn

reply to post by Danbones

You might want to read the first page of your PDF

The views expressed in the student academic research paper are those of the author and not reflect the official policy or position of the department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 09:58 PM by burntheships

Thats a nice thought that the Patriot Act is a warm fuzzy.

Contrary to popular opinion, it does provide so many infringements...the media
will never tell us. However think for a moment on the deep controversy, and examine the
facts and you will see why The Patriot Act has been the bone of many contenetions.

The Washington Post

The number of people the FBI targeted with national security letters more than doubled last year to more than 14,000.

The letters enable the bureau to collect a large amount of sensitive information like financial and phone records in terrorism and espionage investigations. In 2007, the Justice Department’s inspector general found widespread violations in FBI use of the letters, including demands without proper authorization and information obtained in non-emergency circumstances. The FBI has tightened oversight of the system. The letters are controversial because there is no court scrutiny of the process.

In a summary to Congress, the Justice Department said the FBI made 24,287 national security letter requests last year for information regarding 14,212 people. That’s up from 2009 when there were 14,788 requests for information about 6,114 people www.washingtonpost.com...

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 10:12 PM by SkipperJohn

Burn I respect you and your post as you have done one heck of a job reporting but:

5. MYTH: The Protect America Act authorizes the executive branch to conduct physical searches of domestic mail, computers, or the homes of Americans without a warrant.

FACT: The Protect America Act does not authorize physical searches of the homes, personal belongings, or computers of individuals in the United States, or the opening of domestic mail without a court order, and our intelligence professionals are not using the Act to conduct such searches.

6. MYTH: The Protect America Act would allow the government to obtain, without a warrant or any court approval, the business records of Americans in the United States.

FACT: The Protect America Act does not authorize the collection of most business records, such as medical or library records.

FACT: The Executive Branch will not use the Act to acquire any business records of Americans in the United States.

All the myths are exposed here.

Link

BTW it is a .gov website

I just do not see them arresting me for buying 5 cans of spam and a case of Roman noodle soup.

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 10:16 PM by burntheships

reply to post by SkipperJohn

Skipper John,

I have the utmost respect of you also, and I really do.

As the Washington Post outlines, the agencies abuse the powers all of the time.
When it comes down to it, they have the power to do anything they wish.

Show me one agency that has not broken the law.
I'll show you tens that have not been prosecuted.

In the spirit of brotherly love my brother.
bts~

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 10:47 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by SkipperJohn
5. MYTH: The Protect America Act authorizes the executive branch to conduct physical searches of domestic mail, computers, or the homes of Americans without a warrant.

FACT: The Protect America Act does not authorize physical searches of the homes, personal belongings, or computers of individuals in the United States, or the opening of domestic mail without a court order, and our intelligence professionals are not using the Act to conduct such searches.

6. MYTH: The Protect America Act would allow the government to obtain, without a warrant or any court approval, the business records of Americans in the United States.

FACT: The Protect America Act does not authorize the collection of most business records, such as medical or library records.

FACT: The Executive Branch will not use the Act to acquire any business records of Americans in the United States.

Wow that's certainly eye-opening!

After cross referencing that source it does appear true. That goes against the story of the whistleblower being pressured into retracting the story. As corrupt as the government is, regular people do stupid things too.

Nothing to see here I imagine. Not everything is a conspiracy.

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 10:57 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by SkipperJohn

Skipper John,

I have the utmost respect of you also, and I really do.

As the Washington Post outlines, the agencies abuse the powers all of the time.
When it comes down to it, they have the power to do anything they wish.

Show me one agency that has not broken the law.
I'll show you tens that have not been prosecuted.

In the spirit of brotherly love my brother.
bts~

I think a the end of the day, if the government wants to abuse it's powers, it certainly doesn't need to pass laws to do it. If people become outraged, it will be reguardless of laws in place. Laws are in place that allow corporate favorism, yet people are beginning to push back.

And keep in mind, news sources are not required to be unbiased, as they are not government owned. If Rupert Murdoch is conservative, so FOX news will be. Bias is one thing, outright fraud or lies is another. Even the bigs ones can be nailed, just look at the recent trouble with Rupert and News of the World.

edit on 12-12-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:10 AM by FreedomCommander

reply to post by zeeon

they are somewhat the same thing, they all come from government that isn't suppose to be involved.

A country's government is measured on how few people need help, and so far they are getting poorer and poorer.

No fear has been in this post or my previous post, just saying my two cents.

reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:05 PM by calnorak

reply to post by Shadowalker

9% approval? are you just trying to flatter them? I don't believe it could be that high.

I don't doubt this story, the feds are crooked. If you aint with them your against them, their isn't a middle ground.

Eventually, if this type of stuff goes on, they sure will find terrorists, of their own design and worst nightmare.

reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:08 PM by VitriolAndAngst

I'm not going to "rebut" the OPs claim that this is a sign of a "Police State" since I think we've been in one for all intents and purposes since 9/11 -- it just has a velvet glove covering the iron fist.

Also, I think that EVENTUALLY, the 7 Billion people vs. the carrying capacity of the earth coupled with Global Capitalism constantly trying to GROW faster to be profitable is an eventual dooms day scenario -- yet, nobody seems to be trying to fix this problem while it doesn't entail massive upheaval and death.

I WILL however posit an alternative explanation;
While douche bags in general, the FBI is trying to get a list of "survivalist type" people, for either an on-going investigation or to profile those who would go off the deep end.
Since they don't WANT to be question by the public, and don't think the public deserves and answer, they act like jack-boots and don't explain anything -- intensifying the doubt.

This is what happens when you no longer live in a Representative Democracy -- the loss of faith is responded to by MORE intrusive scrutiny, because the power structure becomes paranoid -- because they've made the public to ignorant to be reasoned with -- or believe it to be. Whether this attitude is warranted or not -- it always results in self-fulfilling prophesy.

reply posted on 14-12-2011 @ 12:17 AM by frenzy4444

reply to post by brokedown

We need our food time to eat anything i guess

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