Do we really need the Police?

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Text people who committed genocide.

Are you saying there were no good Nazi's? I think thats exactly like saying there are no good Police. I am not saying that though. I think you are being pedantic.

Originally posted by jibajaba
we should all be taking care of ourselves and not abdicating to another.
clans and family would seek their own justice.
if cars are driven reckless and endangering - then the clan could go hunt the perp.
there would be less crime - not more.

Exactly. We can look after ourselves. We would look after ourselves.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

Again, that's a few police out of every hundred who give the rest of them a bad name. No you cannot compare them to a group of people who committed genocide.

~Keeper

It's so not just a few out of the many. It's the general attitude of the police today which gives them ALL a bad name. And if the good cops don't speak out about the bad cops, then they are just as guilty for the crimes they commit. Look toward Egypt, Syria and Libia. The cops and armed forces out there, just people folling orders, but those orders are to open fire on their own people. I know that our police would do the exact same thing if they were asked, becasue they are ALL scum. It took along time for any sort of humanity to appear in the Egyptian forces, when they laid down their guns and joined the protests. And even then, only a few did. This is what I see coming for us from our beloved (cursed) police force. They are so dettatched from the people they allegedly are there to protect, that I have no doubt in my mind that they would open fire on civilians. I can never, nor will I ever, respect them, becasue I know what type of people they are.

Originally posted by Acidtastic

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

were there good Nazi's? I am sorry my blanket statement offends you so much. Whether they are good people is irrelevant,I am sure there were plenty of good decent people that were Nazi's. I am sure there are a few good cops,my point is that the service they provide is unjustified,unnecessary and at the very least it is overkill.

This is an example of a straw man argument. You cannot compare law enforcement to the Nazi's. Again that is slander and silly.

You can to an extent. The NAZIs were after all, just people following orders. Like cops who beat people for no reason, or kill for no reason, or harrass people for no reason, and who think they are above us all becasue they wear a uniform.

Is it me or is it usually just bad boys who keep getting caught that complain about the police

reply to post by TheDemonUK


They havent caught me yet. That wont stop me justifiably complaining about them.

First off, what is an AVO? Never heard of that. Must be an English thing. Second, if you call the police here, it takes 20 minutes minimum for them to show up. If you don't defend and protect yourself, you will be dead. So here where I live we have no need of police. They serve no real function. I have had tools stolen and they really didn't care or even try to look for them. I had to solve it myself and then punish the miscreant myself. Stupid crackhead got what was coming to him.

In cities you need police. Where ever you have minorities or liberals you will need police. But not out here in the boondocks. We take care of that stuff ourselves. The police just do traffic and random domestic disturbances.

reply to post by theovermensch


From reading your posts, it sounds like you are an expert on technicalities and in your words 'get off' charges laid against you. Doesn't mean you didn't do anything though does it.

True - law abiding, responsible civilised people do not really need the police and they resent being harassed as though they might be criminals.

But that is to totally miss the point of what the police are there for.

A War between Biology and Society

The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that you can talk crime to death, doesn’t work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly control biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological patterns, and the instrument of conversation between society and biology is not words. The instrument of conversation between society and biology has always been a policeman or a soldier and his gun.

All the laws of history, all the arguments, all the Constitutions and the Bills of Rights and Declarations of Independence are nothing more then instructions to the military and police. If the military and police can’t or don’t follow these instructions properly they might as well have never been written. Part of our paralysis was commitment to the twentieth century intellectual doctrines. A second part of the paralysis probably came from the fact that the criminals were black. If it had been a group of trash whites moving into the neighborhood, robbing and raping and killing, the response would have been much fiercer. But when whites denounced blacks for robbing and raping and killing they left themselves open to the charge of racism.

In the atmosphere of public opinion of that time no intellectual dared to open himself to the charge of being a racist. Just the thought of it shut him up tight. Paralysis. Blacks have no right to violate social codes and call it ”racism ” when someone tries to stop them, if those codes are not racist codes. That is slander. The fight to sustain social codes isn’t a war of blacks vs. whites or Hispanics vs. blacks, or poor people vs. rich people or even stupid people against intelligent people, or any other of all the other possible cultural confrontations.

It’s a war of biology vs. society. It’s a war of biological blacks and biological whites against social blacks and social whites. Genetic patterns just confuse the matter

LILA
Excerpts from a book by
Robert M. Pirsig
on
Values and Dynamic Quality www.foresight.se...

reply to post by Ookie

Text Second, if you call the police here, it takes 20 minutes minimum for them to show up. If you don't defend and protect yourself, you will be dead.

I think if you look at response times across the western world it would be similar. Lower in low socio economic areas they dont care about. And I agree,if you dont protect yourself you will be dead. If thye Police make anyone feel safer it is a false sense of security.


And sorry,AVO stands for 'Apprehended Violence Order'. Its basically a restraining order.

reply to post by TheDemonUK


I didnt do anything in this instance but I do not claim to be a law abiding citizen. I do not hurt or cause any other individual any harm.Just because they make a law does not mean I agree or will follow it.

reply to post by TheDemonUK


And I am no expert. Because I chose to represent myself I had to do alot of research about what my options were and I did seek outside help. I just decided to represent myself because I feel I can do just as good a job as some stupid lawyer that doest really give a crap.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
True - law abiding, responsible civilised people do not really need the police and they resent being harassed as though they might be criminals.

But that is to totally miss the point of what the police are there for.

A War between Biology and Society

The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that you can talk crime to death, doesn’t work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly control biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological patterns, and the instrument of conversation between society and biology is not words. The instrument of conversation between society and biology has always been a policeman or a soldier and his gun.

All the laws of history, all the arguments, all the Constitutions and the Bills of Rights and Declarations of Independence are nothing more then instructions to the military and police. If the military and police can’t or don’t follow these instructions properly they might as well have never been written. Part of our paralysis was commitment to the twentieth century intellectual doctrines. A second part of the paralysis probably came from the fact that the criminals were black. If it had been a group of trash whites moving into the neighborhood, robbing and raping and killing, the response would have been much fiercer. But when whites denounced blacks for robbing and raping and killing they left themselves open to the charge of racism.

In the atmosphere of public opinion of that time no intellectual dared to open himself to the charge of being a racist. Just the thought of it shut him up tight. Paralysis. Blacks have no right to violate social codes and call it ”racism ” when someone tries to stop them, if those codes are not racist codes. That is slander. The fight to sustain social codes isn’t a war of blacks vs. whites or Hispanics vs. blacks, or poor people vs. rich people or even stupid people against intelligent people, or any other of all the other possible cultural confrontations.

It’s a war of biology vs. society. It’s a war of biological blacks and biological whites against social blacks and social whites. Genetic patterns just confuse the matter

LILA
Excerpts from a book by
Robert M. Pirsig
on
Values and Dynamic Quality www.foresight.se...

Thanks for the link Looks like an interesting book.

reply to post by theovermensch


No, I'm not. There are certainly good folks in any sect, regardless of that group's actions.

I'm stating I won't take a whole a group of people, place them in a little box and apply a label to it.

I'd rather look at individual law enforcement officers and judge them on their actions individually when I or others interact with them.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Fair enough. Im not proposing a 'Kick a Cop Day'

I know there are good ones.

I do think their role and how they perform their jobs is worth evaluating though.

I think no Police could actually work but I know thats not realistic.

Perhaps there is a happy medium.

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

:
I think no Police could actually work but I know thats not realistic.

We'd need a human race which wasn't centered around greed before that happened.

I have mixed feelings about the police (in the U.K.) becase on the one had they are needed to deal with crime incidents as seen on Crime Watch UK and other similar shows but at the same time I have been stopped and asked questions about who I am, where I live, where I have been/going, what I am doing etc. for no particular reason. Sure I like to take early morning walks (2-4am) into town and back just for the exercise and I find it amusing to answer their questions only to have them get all snarky with me.

Example 1

Me. (Sitting on a park bench, police car pulls up a two Police Officers get out)
1st PO. What are you doing?

Me. I am looking at the stars and enjoying the quiet of the night.
1st PO. What your name?

Me. Scully Tindalos
1st PO. Is that your real name? Sounds made up. (Tells me to stand up and empty my pockets)
2nd PO. Why have you got two mobile phones?

Me. I always like to have a spare just in case (note I had a 3rd phone that I didnt reveal)
1st PO. Calls in on radio to check if I am 'known' to the police.

2nd PO looks inside my tobbaco case (for evidence of illegal drugs probably) Why have you got a small torch?
Me. It comes in handy for illuminating the dark when I walk through parks and fields at night.
(I tell them where I live etc)

2nd PO. Why are you smiling? I dont like it, makes me think you are getting one over on me.
Me. I sit back down on the bench.

1st PO tells me to stand back up.
Me. Who are you? Can I see both of your ID's please. (they have to comply with this request)

2nd PO. You shouldnt be wandering around at this time of the morning, you might be looking for cars to steal or breaking into houses.
Me. I can walk around at any time I feel like regardless of what you might think. Can I go now?

Originally posted by theovermensch

Originally posted by definity
colombine? crips v bluds? motorway pile ups? murders? drugs? child/woman traffiking? rape?

The Police stopped Colombine? I would send an ambulance to a pile up,not Police. Police have not done much to prevent gang crime,murder,drug use,traffiking or rape in my opinion. You could take the Police off the streets and these thing would remain at a steady level. The reason is because most people are good. Do you really think Police deter criminal behaviour? I dont at all.

Oh dear.

If you truly believe this, then i'm afraid you don't really grasp how the world works. If there is still crime and deviant behaviour where punishment is threatened (e.g. prison), then surely it would become even worse when that punishment is removed. Most people are indeed good - however that still leaves a large portion that are bad - and in some cases very bad!

Whether you feel the police are heavy handed or not (and I fall on the side of the fence that says a select few are bad apples, the rest are people trying to improve their own community), to argue that the Police do not deter criminal behaviour is frankly preposterous and flies in the face of common sense.

It's easy to knock them when you have not been a victim of crime, or suffered as a result of deviant behaviour - I suspect your opinion would change very quckly if a member of your family was attacked / abducted or if your property was damaged...although don't tell me, you would 'sort it out yourself'....keep dreaming, keyboard warrior!

reply to post by theovermensch


I believe there is.

There is certainly a mentality among law enforcement that needs to be discouraged and we need to re-train police to understand their rights and limitations as well as our own.

A lot of the time unfortunetly police are put in situations where thinking will get you killed. There are things we the people need to work on, and things that our police services must work on.

~Keeper

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by spy66

 

Angy mobs are full of [SNIP]s. That is why they form mobs. There is a very nice chapter you might remember in 'Adventures of Huckleberry Finn' that demonstrates the right way to deal with a mob of wimps.

edit on 6-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo

A democratic mob comes in many shapes and size. It can be the EU, The US, China and so on. Some might not agree that China is democratic, but it is, just not with its people, only within its own government and structure.

It is not very easy to revolt against a democratic mob that has total physical and economical control. Because they dictate the economics and the law.

On a smaller level democracy is decided by shear strenght of the individual compared to its opponent, or by the shear strength of numbers or its weapon. Unless they can compromise.