The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

My philosophy...
UFOs are 'Unidentified' by the layman (civilians/citizens)? Yes.

UFOs are 'Unidentified' by 'everyone' in the military (globally)? Prove it.

UFOs are 'Unidentified' by 'everyone' in the government (globally)? Prove it.

My perspective on this argument is simple - Since the US, UK, and China military complexes are working on so many dark projects, defining these objects as alien in origin is a BIG mistake. Regardless about how many former government contacts you provide, the military is too massive for one man to know everything.

You want to prove the existence of aliens?
(1) Show me an alive alien up close, so I can use all of my senses to interact with it.
(2) Show me a dead alien corpse up close, so I can use all of my senses to interact with it.
(3) Show me an alien craft up close, so I can use all of my senses to interact with it.
(4) Put your proof on 'live' television for the world to see.
(5) Invite world 'known scientists' and 'the public' down to interact with the craft or alien.

Until I see something in which 'everyone' can interact with (touch, smell, see, and hear), I will always consider alien visitation and phenomenon as a myth.

Nothing will change my approach.

Do aliens exist in general? Yes.
Have aliens visited Earth? Prove it by following the criteria I provided above.

I except nothing less.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I've seen credible members ridiculed, mocked, called a liar for not having pictures of their UFO, ET, or paranormal experience. Such demand for photographic evidence is ignorant and displays intellectual dishonesty by the one demanding such evidence.

It even happens in non-ET related threads:

Originally posted by OldCorp
I was speaking to one of the leaders of a Syrian opposition group via Skype earlier tonight (no I won't say who it is, you'll have to wait for the next episode of The Truth Is Viral) and we were discussing possible Russian involvement should NATO take an overt role in enforcing the no-fly zone...

Result = 39 Stars

Originally posted by princeofpeace
LOL!!!!! Yeah i was on Skype earlier with mahmoud ahmadinejad and he told me some stuff but im not gonna say it on here.

Result = 62 Stars

Now I'm not a "star whore" or whatever, but I do take them as a good indicator of what people really think about a post because they can cast their vote anonymously. I'd like to think that I've built up a little street cred in my time here on ATS; yet the 62 people who starred princeofpeace's comment were basically agreeing with him when he all but called me a liar. BTW, that interview, with Malik al-Abdeh, is featured in the next episode that has already been uploaded to the editor for post-production.

I wonder how many apologies I'll get when it airs?

I need to ask: what makes you, the internet cruiser/squatter, so much more skilled at deciding the truthfulness of a witness or their credibility than a court? ...How have you been able to acquire such skills as deciding the character of a person you have never met and never seen?

Exactly. "Pics or it didn't happen" is just a lazy way of calling someone a liar and sidestepping the responsibility. I think it's just rude.

I am really surprised this hasn't been moved to Rant yet.

Definition of RANT: intransitive verb 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner 2 : to scold vehemently

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I've seen credible members ridiculed, mocked, called a liar for not having pictures of their UFO, ET, or paranormal experience. Such demand for photographic evidence is ignorant and displays intellectual dishonesty by the one demanding such evidence.

Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).[1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. Ignoramus is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is willfully ignorant.

So yes, this OP meets the basic criteria for a rant. I've read through all the pages so far, and I'll conclude as much.

To those who relish the words "pics or it didn't happen" I would suggest this to you: you reveal gross ignorance by making such statement.

That is an opinionated statement. No factual basis whatsoever. It's offensive to me to be called uninformed or lacking knowledge.

If that's what's really going on, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for being the liar you claim these witnesses to be.

THAT is definitely scolding. Being called a liar is also very accusatory, with no actual basis. Fits the definition of rant perfectly.

Let's apply this rant to a couple of real-life scenarios:

Scenario 1:

You get in a car crash, and your vehicle is undrivable, however you escape unharmed because you were wearing your seat belt. The tow truck hauls your vehicle away, and you call your insurance company to explain the situation.

"Ok, Mr. John Doe, we'll send an adjustor out right away to take pictures."

"Oh, no," you reply, "I don't need pictures. You can take my word that it is definitely totaled out. Just drop off my check for the value the vehicle was insured at."

After a brief pause on the phone, the agent replies.

"Uhm, I'm sorry, Mr. Doe, that's not the way it works. We need to have pictures in order to process the claim. This is the year 2011, and we scan the pictures into a computer, and it becomes a file that must be reviewed by several people before we can cut you a check."

Pictures are necessary.

Scenario 2:

"Houston, this is Apollo 7, come in."

"Apollo 7, we read you."

"Houston, we are about ready to take pictures of several interesting sub-orbital features. What's the telemetry parameters? Over."

"Oh, gosh, Apollo 7, we've decided to scrub all picture taking on this mission. We don't need them. People will just take our word, and our verbal transcripts. While your at it, make sure you cut all video feed. It's simply not important."

"Houston, can you repeat that please? Over."

"We said cancel the pics and video. Everyone will take our audio as proof. We're good, no need to waste film. People are quite content without photographic evidence. Copy?"

"Houston, it sounds like you said cut video and forget taking pictures. Please confirm. Over."

"Apollo 7, roger. Our constituents have confirmed that photographic proof is not required on this mission. They're content to have written testimony."

"Houston, roger wilco, cutting video."

Pictures are necessary.

Point made?

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by Six6Six
I have not seen ONE credible person on here.

edit on 5-12-2011 by Six6Six because: (no reason given)

I presume that would include you? As you and many just can't understand, to say "pics or IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" is absolutely the height of ignorance because you've concluded that "it didn't happen" ONLY on the basis that photos are not provided. People like you don't even ask further questions before concluding that the person telling the story is lying. And again, if people did provide photos, you'd be the first to claim they're fake.

Yes that includes me. If you or I stand up and proclaim that we have seen, witnessed or been visited by a UFO etc, then WE need to provide proof of what we say. simply saying it does not mean it happened and as far as how scientific practice is conducted it tends to mean it DID NOT happen unless others can examine hard evidence of these unfounded claims.

The only people who are ignorant are those who claim such wild and lavish bull S*** and expect everyone else to fall over dumbfounded and worship their findings. Sorry my friend but the intellectual people here will always NEED proof of a claim that is beyond reason. There have been far too many people offering false stories that for us to believe without proof would label us gullible.

You types are the reason why the conspiracy community is ridiculed. YOU make huge claims and offer zero hard evidence of the event. You may offer up some blurred out of focus picture of a faded light and expect us all to believe that is a spacecraft. Sorry but the smart money is on you being a liar or seeing what you want to see. Time to grow up and present findings in a manner that people can examine thoroughly. Because being a faceless entity behind a screen give everyone the credibility of Ted Bundy saying he's turned a new leaf.

I saw a green donkey flying around the moon before it was picked up by a spaceship and flown at light speed towards Jupiter. There you go. Do you believe me? Or would you like some sort of proof?

Houston, speak to Hollywood and get him to beam some pics over to the starship enterprise, copy that ?
Roger them sir , we 'll cook it using the bullometric disabliser

In my opinion, the correct response to a claim which lacks evidence is, "Well, then it's certainly possible. I can't say one way or the other." Rejecting it out of hand without proving the negative (something very difficult to do) isn't real skepticism or part of the scientific method. You can observe the claim, and then form a hypothesis about it. But if you can't prove your hypothesis (positive or negative,) you can't make factual assertions about it without violating logic and rigor. At least in my opinion.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

It is not normal or intelligent to say "...it didn't happen" simply because they don't have a picture. That's a huge conclusion to make based on the lack of the evidence that YOU think is most important.

It's an expression, not to be taken literally, like "break a leg". "Pics or it didn't happen" doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means no one can verify if you're telling the truth, and therefore requires heavy skepticism.

No, you are wrong sir!

The ultimate display of ignorance is when you show a PICTURE and people still call hoax. Or when you make a TIF scan at high resolution, within hours of the request with your own money that you don't have from said requester and still, a HOAX is called and further ignorance ensues. Go look at the thread www.abovetopsecret.com... and you will see what I mean. Iamtat did everything everyone asked and still he has received disrespectful behavior. See how much he posts after this. I don't know what happened here. It didn't seem to be like this a few years ago.

If someone reports a UFO sighting i.e. to MUFON they are

Telling the truth
Mad, bad or sad

In the recent past i.e. 1950s 1960s, perhaps one was guarded about mentioning that they had seen a UFO. However if one asks people these days about UFO experiences it is surprising how many of them describe something that they could not explain in terms of a plane or a star etc.

My examples include

A taxi driver in the south of UK who told me that he had seen a ball of light travelling in his rear-view mirror at night across a forest. Perhpas he was describing a fireball?

A man who saw a very large light in the sky in the Channel Islands which made him run for cover.

Some other unexpected reports from the Channel Islands
2 Elderly sisters seeing a large light in the sky
www.thisisjersey.com...

A woman who noticed background lights in the sky when she was having her photograph taken
www.monstrous.com...

And of course the Channel Island pilot who described a massive UFO with passenger witnesses and confirmed radar reports.

pic or this story never happen...

I dont trust a story half of ats sits around thinking what the next big conspiracy will be ect...

Is ron paul a reptilian?
Is obama a drug dealer for Mexican cartels?

all story's with at least a little proof via a photo or video..i wont even read cause unless a E.T. is sitting in there living room drinking tea...and that is why they cant post a pic cause it might offend it lol

90% of the world population owns a cell phone with a camera OR a CAMERA lol

So only the 10% who dont own camera's of any kind see these ufo's ..these aliens are smarter than i thought ZOMG

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Welcome to the special ignorance known as Americans. They love their little bumper sticker slogans regardless of any lack of reality or logic.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


IMO the people who make those statements probably wouldn't take a serious look even if a picture was provided. Honestly, I dont think they don't really care in the first place. It's almost as bad as "I haven't seen one yet so therefore they don't exist" crowd. I think you've made an excellent point here. We send people to death row with less evidence. I'm sure those same people will now ask for my source of that statement. The source is my rear but I'm 100% sure we've convicted people with less.

It really is quite frustrating/hilarious to me that no matter how many times we've been put in our place in the past we still hold on to this notion that we are some how the most advanced life to ever develop in the universe. Given the size of the universe and the wide range of conditions we have found life here on earth it's really the nonbelievers who should be mocked/ridiculed. When I mention the subject to someone and they start snickering I ask why are you laughing? Most don't even know or make some statement about how only people in the country are the one who see these things. Nevermind all the pilots, military and government people who have come out and said these things do exist.

Originally posted by ArcAngel
No, you are wrong sir!

The ultimate display of ignorance is when you show a PICTURE and people still call hoax. Or when you make a TIF scan at high resolution, within hours of the request with your own money that you don't have from said requester and still, a HOAX is called and further ignorance ensues. Go look at the thread www.abovetopsecret.com... and you will see what I mean. Iamtat did everything everyone asked and still he has received disrespectful behavior. See how much he posts after this. I don't know what happened here. It didn't seem to be like this a few years ago.

There weren't as many people here a few years ago. For every intelligent person that joins, 10 trolls in HS sign up as well. (Note: pure speculation.)

You guys are still misusing the term "ignorance". It means the lack of knowledge, being uninformed. The motto of ATS is to DENY THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. It means to LEARN! Don't just believe what you are told, learn about the world around you, and share it with others. Get informed. Don't just run your mouth, try to understand. There are many good teachers here on ATS, many experts in their own fields. I have learned so much more here on ATS participating in sometimes livid conversations than I ever did researching on my own. ATS is designed to float ideas around, picking out the factual bits, speculating on the probable ones, and denying the ones without merit.

You are ALWAYS watched by your ATS peers. Arc, here is a perfect example:

I have read every page of your above linked thread. I've been following it since it was conceived. IAMTAT is, IMO, one of the BEST OPs on ATS. He followed his thread, he answered requests, went out of his way to provide what the members asked him, and remained cordial and polite the whole time. The verdict is still out on that thread, but in the process of analyzing what he asked, we have come across one very interesting picture that is not found anywhere else on the internet. True, we've sliced and diced his pic in every way possible, but that is not a bad thing, that is showing the talents of the members here, allowing free discussion about a question that an OP had. There will always be people who call HOAX, and then there will be the people who analyze, logically discuss, and offer sound opinions without saying YEA or NAY. Most of the people in that thread are still 50/50, yet still we are able to DENY IGNORANCE. We read, and learn, and compliment people who provide sound and logical analysis. We become more knowledgeable about things such as focus points, gradients, image enhancement, and in the process, become more informed about how the world works around us.

You are ALWAYS watched by your ATS peers. Arc, here is a another perfect example:

In this thread that you authored, IAMTAT explains he bought the piece for 1200 USD. Go back and read the bold in your above quote. You say he collects antiques, so therefore he can definitely afford a hi-res scan. He didn't whine about it, he did it. We are still working on that thread, but as I have already said, IAMTAT is one cool, collective, and sincere poster. He doesn't whine or complain that his pictures didn't come out right, he simply adds what we request. He adds pictures to the thread, and gives other members a chance to peruse what he asks of them. I have the utmost respect for IAMTAT, and I also believe (pure speculation) that others agree.

Yes, the playing field has become littered with sheeple, but those who deny the lack of knowledge should be able to circumvent them.

Those who wish to learn, will. That's just the way it is.

I f you ever see UFO’s or Aliens.
or some other fantastical thing.
Dont Tel ATS go to other site and tell them.
and when it gets in the news.
some one can post it on ATS From the news.

Photos can be very easily faked.
and the digital info can be hack’t.
So a Photo is of No Value at all.
so you may as well just forget it.
forget what you have seen.
Tell no one. and one day you may forget to.

reply to post by Visiting ESB

How have you been able to acquire such skills as deciding the character of a person you have never met and never seen?

This is the main problem. On the other side of the coin - we've all encountered a few loonies, hoaxers, etc. on this forum, let alone the rest of the internet and real life. Nobody wants to waste their time and effort putting their faith into someone they cannot vouch for, especially on an issue as world-changing as a UFO sighting. The implications of a sincere UFO sighting are enormous.

I know how frustrating it can be. Whilst I've never seen what I would identify as an alien space craft up close, I once saw what I believe to be two in the far distance - two stars moving in the same direction at the same speed. I only know one guy in real life that would probably believe me, the rest of my close friends wouldn't. Not that they think I'm a liar - but they think I was seeing things. They don't believe that I saw what I know I saw.

Therefore, on an unregulated internet - it's quite comprehendible that most people are skeptical. It's easy to fake a UFO video and many people have done it in the past. Most the videos that do surface are blatant fakes.

You're a little harsh and perhaps might do well to be slightly more skeptical. Although I do appreciate that some people may be a little too skeptical to the point where they rule out any pictures as fakes and any sightings without pictures as made up stories.

edit: On a brighter note, that new software they came out with to detect the extent of photoshopping on a picture might help prove some people's cases!

I may have said this before, but my sightings over the years, I would never put on this site for reasons discussed here, why bother. I use other sites for this type of discussion due to the lame cut downs by other members. Also if I had some good shots, it would be a waste of time to show you folks here, for these same lame, self appointed experts would just throw out negative comments, thus I stay to the spiritual side which does not require pictures.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I am enormously happy that you (OP) have decided to devote a thread to this matter. For too long have I felt as you do, that such a statement is truly ignorant, and blatantly moronic. So erroneously logically sound is this overused comment, that it has even enticed members to post threads about supposed occurrences and post "pics of where it did happen".

It is amazing how angry you can make some people on this website when you state in your thread that you did not have a camera at the time of the event. Yet this amazement pales in comparison to the astonishment I feel at the pure vitriol members post when an OP claims they were able to take pics, but they do not have the know-how to display them on the thread. Talk about numerous "manners and decorum" warnings in a row...

It is my humble opinion that "Pics or it didn't happen" posts should be blocked, and the poster warned. However, I am not a mod, so they will continue to do as they see fit.

I don't think it's ignorance to ask for evidence over word. The internet is rife with liars and deceivers no matter where you go on here. Hell, even pictures and video are not enough evidence anymore. The old addage "don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see" couldn't be more applicable to anywhere more than the internet. I would say that the "no pics or it didn't happen" statement doesn't need to be said, as it's really a waste of server space, but You know what's more ignorant than asking for photos for proof? Believing anything you see or hear and just taking someones word, simply because they say it. This is why America is in so much trouble and in so much debt. they bought every word every lying politician told them for generations and a lot still do amiss all of the evidence that they have of what their government has done to them. There is no shame in not being a fool.