The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Its the internet, I dont know who is being a troll or being honest. Ignorance is believing what someone tells you on the internet without proof.

ATS is not a court as such, so it is impossible to cross examine a "witness". There is a damn sight more to cross examination than asking "different questions". Quite often apparently unrelated questions are asked to see if the witness is consistent. Likewise different witnesses to the same event are cross examined WITHOUT knowing each others testimony.

So equating UFO witnesses as credible as a court is pure nonsense.

This is why we rely on another "court room" item : physical evidence. Hence the call for photos. Now if you have photo evidence from different angles then we have the equivelent of cross examination and corroborated evidence......assuming the UFO is more than several pixels wide.

Why would an alien come to earth and position their ship, stationary, equidistant and just out of range of all cameras? Remarkable feat that I don't think even a faster than light, time travelling mega galaxy civilisation could perform!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way : the latest phone cameras are BETTER at taking night time photos than digital SLR's

I do know this site has a decent amount of younger members, Middle School and High School members. (Some members have chosen to admit their ages, what grade they are in.)

As you go through life late school college etc, you are taught that if you want to persuade someone else, you need proof. It's common sense.


For those who plan to work, when you get your Career, you can't just tell the interviewer

"Oh I know how to do that"

"I learned that in school"

The interviewer is going to want PROOF that you know what you are doing.

He's/She's going to want a College Degree that shows you have been trained.
He's/She's going to want to your Resume to that shows you have experience in a particular field.


That interviewer is not going to blindly believe you without the above. He's not going to invest in you without the above proof.

The interviewer will not say:

Cause you said you was trained, I'm going to hire you

Cause you said you learned how to do this in school, you have the job

It does not quite work that way, In the real world.

Its quite humorous to see people on this forum being trolled by 4channers. Pic's or it didn't happen is a 4chan meme and chances are if you run into a person using it they are just attempting to incite anger, which they have successfully accomplished.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Based on this logic there should be no innocent people in prison today.
Testimony without corroborating evevidence to definitivly back it up, E.G. fingerprints, DNA, photographs and other hard eviedence is the most UNreliable and flawed of evidence for obvious reasons. If I'm ever on trial, and falsely accused, PLEASE use the "pictures or it did not happen" rule for me!!

P.S. This is the second post in so many days on this forum that is imflamatory, one sided and down right ignorant in premise.
Is there a "soap box spewspeak club" or "crackpot lunitic group" visiting ATS this week?

reply to post by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

How can asking for pics to support an unbelievable story be 'ignorant'?

edit on 5-12-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Because it is the only acceptable means for some people to believe anything. THAT'S ignorant and shows that they have no capacity to judge testimony. When you can't judge credibility of a witness without photographic evidence and then claim that "it didn't happen" with absolute certainty -- THAT'S ignorant.

I agree , to claim that something never happened with certainty just because they dont have pics is wrong. But at the same time i doubt i will ever believe in the existence of Alien craft based on a single persons testimony alone. Its far to easy for people to be mistaken in what they see and there are WAY to many hoaxers out there.

Also sometimes people post stories where there seems no logical explanation to why they couldn't have managed to get a picture and i think these are the times where the phrase 'pics or it didnt happen' seem to pop up with regularity.

To believe something happened (and their interpretation of what it was they saw eg. it was definitely aliens) just because someone said it, is just as ignorant as saying it didn't happen because there were no pics.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I disagree with you in every way OP.

"pics or it didnt happen" seems like a perfectly reasonable bottom line for evidence, if you ask me...

Would you rather it be that any idiot could start a thread and have every gullible conspiracy theorist on the boards take that idiots words at face value.

It has just occurred to me that you may very well want that. But, in that case, we really aren't "denying ignorance", are we?

In fact, we would be fostering ignorance.

There are too many trolls, too many liars, too many kids on here crying for attention, inventing personas and events that are nothing more then pathetic attempts to get people around here excited for nothing.

In an environment like this, we need a rigorous standard of evidence. And, in the absence of such a standard, we at least need SOMETHING to go on beyond nonsensical ramblings.

Personally, im glad certain people demand evidence, and im glad certain people refuse to believe everything they read around here.

Its a good sign that some of us are still capable of critical thinking in the face of utter absurdity.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I really cannot believe the stuborness of some people who actually believe that in this whole vast Universe or even Multiverse.....we Humans are the end all to end all.

There are hardly any educated people in the world who think this. Most educated people and almost ALL scientists feel that intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe is extremely likely. The idea that intelligent life almost certainly exists someplace else in the universe (or even someplace else in the galaxy) is a very popular idea.

I'm sure there are a few stubborn people out there who think differently, but there are always a few stubborn people who are still disbelieve in a lot of truths. There is no stopping that.


...as for the OP's point:

The problem with not providing a photo or video is that we would then be 100% dependent on the eyewitness account to be accurate. We all know that eyewitness accounts of any event -- UFO sighting or an eyewitness to a car accident -- are often not exactly accurate. The eyewitness to any event may THINK they saw what they say they saw, but they may be mistaken for a number of reasons.

Originally posted by Phage
So, let's make it "Pics (or video) or there's nothing to discuss." Of course, if it isn't discussion but simply support which is sought...

...then Phage will be glad to give you your Daily Affirmation:



Harte

Sorry I for got to say.
This post gives Pics!
And gets totally debunkt.
I think That is a cover up. just read the post.
what is the point of any of it.
If you have people THIS good and debunking every thing,

Be carful who you belive.
They may just work for THEM.
And They are very good at getting people to think they are sheep!

So even If you have Pics!
NO one will Belive you.

Basically the same thinking is applied if someone says that another person is behind me, but because I can't see them they aren't there?

Originally posted by slugfest
Basically the same thinking is applied if someone says that another person is behind me, but because I can't see them they aren't there?

If someone says that someone is behind you and they are lying, then that would mean that no one is there.

In this case the problem is that the fellow saying that there is someone behind you is not even in the same room with you..... and you can't turn around to actually verify the truth.

"PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN"... Pure BS -- It's the ultimate expression of ignorance, plus stupidity AND arrogance ... NOT just ignorance. "IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" implies one is a liar.

I've noticed that the people whom I've personally known, or whom I've had to deal with, who request the impossible, all have this in common -- a serious mental condition known as ... 'Chronic Assholeality' ... C.A. for short AND an IQ below 80.

One example: I once saw a neighbor horribly abusing her child. Child "Protective" Services, along with the idiotic clueless, incompetent Family Court Judge, basically said ... "Pics or it didn't happen" ... like I had prior knowledge of this event or the time to run for my camera when the incident was not something that was planned ... or as if the child abuser was going to wait to pose for the camera I was coming back with (so I could have solid proof) while she committed a criminal act and abused a little child ... and as if I just didn't bother to take pics or to video child abuse or was neglectful in taking pics/vids as if I could easily have done so ... same goes for most anytime someone makes this ridiculous request/statement.

This ludicrous request/statement is basically calling the person a liar and it's abusive. It just doesn't get any stupider. It falls into the category of "Heads I win -- tails you lose" mentality.

Originally posted by buddha
Sorry I for got to say.
This post gives Pics!
And gets totally debunkt....

...So even If you have Pics!
NO one will Belive you.

"Pics or it didn't happen" doesn't mean "If you have pics, then it was a real alien craft".

Although as pointed out "Pics or it didn't happen" is very harsh. To paraphrase what Phage said, it should be more like: "Pics, and then we will have something to discuss". THAT'S the point. A picture would provide everyone with a common frame of reference to actually discuss the sighting. Otherwise, we would all be at the mercy of the eyewitness to give a factual and accurate account.

I read that thread and it seems to me nothing conclusive can be ascertained from that picture. There are some mundane explanations (non-ET explanations) for that picture that are reasonable. It is a picture certainly worthy of discussion, but by no means proof of anything.

This is a great example of why pictures are important. I suppose the OP could have just said "I was looking at images from STEREO, and I saw a planet-sized object decloaking next to Mercury." without providing a picture of video. If that were the case, we would all be relegated to using our imaginations to get a mental picture of what he was talking about -- and some of us would imagine something quite different than what was in the video that he DID provide.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I've seen credible members ridiculed, mocked, called a liar for not having pictures of their UFO, ET, or paranormal experience. Such demand for photographic evidence is ignorant and displays intellectual dishonesty by the one demanding such evidence.

First, not everyone carries a camera with them. And cell phone cameras are particularly notorious for poor quality photos, especially at night. But that's not the most important fact about photographic evidence...

Every day in the US, courts decide the outcome of criminal and civil cases on the basis of TESTIMONIAL evidence alone. Most cases don't have the photographic evidence to make or break a case, if there is any photo evidence at all. The credibility of the witness is of the utmost importance. Photos usually don't decide the case, but the credibility of the witness, as deemed by the judge or jury, does. Let this be clear: courts proclaim every day that "it happened" because of TESTIMONIAL, not photographic, evidence.

I need to ask: what makes you, the internet cruiser/squatter, so much more skilled at deciding the truthfulness of a witness or their credibility than a court? By demanding photographic evidence, you are essentially saying that the witness is not credible and therefore cannot be trusted unless they come up with a picture. How have you been able to acquire such skills as deciding the character of a person you have never met and never seen?

Let's forget, for a moment, about the UFO witness. What about history? Have you demanded from the publisher of history books photographic evidence for the claims made by the witnesses of historic events? Often, those events are witnessed by only one person, perhaps just a few. Do you deny that these events took place based on the fact that there is no photographic evidence to support the statement that the event did happen?

To those who relish the words "pics or it didn't happen" I would suggest this to you: you reveal gross ignorance by making such statement. Before the existence of cameras we had to rely on the credibility of a person making a claim of being a witness to some event. We used our judgment, hopefully in a fair manner, to decide if they were being truthful. Courts still do this today, every single day, thousands of times a day. You do it every day too with your spouse, your kids, your employees, your parents, and your friends. If I didn't know better, I would begin to think that, because your demand for pics comes within the context of a UFO sighting, you are being intellectually dishonest by ignoring the credibility of the witness by your outright dismissal of their story simply because there are no pics. You're already prejudiced against the idea of ETs, UFOs, etc and just use the "pics or it didn't happen" statement to discredit someone who is likely a truthful person. If that's what's really going on, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for being the liar you claim these witnesses to be.

I do agree with you and have stated many times on here that not everyone has a camera with them at all times (hell, I seem to be one of the few in their 20s in this world who doesn't carry a phone with me at all) BUT..

The old "pics or it didn't happen" I'm sure started on bulletin boards to combat people who made up stories to get attention. I'm not gonna give 4chan credit for it because I honestly don't know who started it but it sounds like something that might originate there.

It's just that recently, with the influx of GLP members coming over here since summer along with others who stumble on ATS some other way, the phrase has been brought to this forum both as the joke that it was created as and by hardcore sceptics who use it as their main defense against UFO reports.

Your analogy of comparing witness of say a murder to UFO witness is fallacious at best. Witness in Court is under Oath, lying under Oath can result in prison time. Consequence of lying about a UFO encounter? Uhh.. nothing? You'll probably destroy an username at worst. ATS is not a Court. Your analogy does not work. When we sign up here we agreed to the TOS. Breaking the TOS will only result in account termination or IP ban in extreme cases.

On topic, most people who say that phrase had already made up their mind that the story presented is fake. It is just a way to troll the OP.

Why do people need validation anyways?

Get off the forum get validated in real life, it feels even better then someone agreeing to your posts.

"pics or it didn't happen" pretty much means "evidence or it did not happen"

asking for evidence is not ignorance. without evidence there is really nothing to discuss other than a story. A story is not evidence, it is an account which could be WRONG since the person might misinterpreted something to be somethig else.. plus the human mind tends to fill in the blanks when it misses or forgets something.

A picture says a lot more than words. Although pictures can be frabricated I would much rather have a picture than a story.

asking for evidence is not ignorance. unless you just want us to take peoples word for it.. and we all know that people are extremely trust worthy.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


How do I know you exist? pics or you didn't happen

You can't just take somebody's word at face value, doing that is as one member said "fostering ignorance".
Having said that I do agree cameras are not always going to be on hand ready to catch something that appears for such a brief moment. I can see if you have a story that you feel is truthful and you don't have pics, you will be insulted at the request for proof, but that's your problem, deal with it on your own.

You really shouldn't have to provide proof to satisfy others anyways, can you just be satisfied you know the truth and who cares if you're believed? If you know it's the truth you shouldn't have to fear having to take the heat for it and become defensive. Stand by your story and leave it out ther for others to decide, being aware not all will believe you. Accept the differences of opinion, because each individual is entitled to judge for themselves as you pointed out with you judicial theory.

I thought the gray area forum or skunk works was for that? Tell your story no need to prove it. Maybe I'm wrong.

The pics are always crap anyways, none of them look like anything more than a blurry light. I have yet to be impressed with any of these videos or pics. I see the headlines on here all the time "best evidence ever"
They never are and never will be.
So I don't demand the pics because they do nothing to verify the claims. The pics do satisfy some though