The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

Until a non-human UFO lands or crashes in a location with thousands of witnesses, it doesn't matter if there are pictures or videos of craft flying through the skies. We see hundreds of them right here on ATS every year and yet there is still no proof of Extra-Terrestial life. I suppose the bottom line is that the presence, or absence, of pictures and videos do not matter at all with this subject, like they do in the courts-of-law..and other situations.
-cwm

The last place I`m looking for proof is here. That`s just not ever going to happen. I do however look for pictures,video or comments made of if it could be similar to what I`ve seen not only in visible light but the way it moves and anything similar.
I`m not getting anywhere in life trying to get anyone here to believe what I`ve seen unless they have seen it or something similar as well. That`s what I'm looking for here not the non-believers trying to find out.

They are out there not in here go look and perhaps you will become the next one thinking wonder if anyone else has seen that so post it for us that is truly interested.

Like I`ve said over and over I`m not here to show you proof mostly because I don`t care if you believe it.
Non-believers are not what I`m looking for nor is it proof to be shown. I`ve seen and I know and there are others with similar or accurate descriptions of what I`ve seen.

Enjoy some outside time if you want proof although it may take a lifetime.

Even if I had a million dollar camera the best I`ve seen wouldn`t have been in pictures.
I was stunned and couldn`t take my eyes off it. And they don`t hang around for picture shoots.

Star and Flag to the OP for saying what should have been said by the site owner and I think they have to an extent.

I don't get why photos or videos would be considered the be all and end all of what is considered to be proof. There have been some well established and proven incidents concerning Unidentified Flying Objects in which no photos or videos have been forthcoming. I don't know if these proven incidents are part of some secret military technology or Aliens or just plain unidentified but the truth is in the cover up. The cover up is real. What they are covering up remains to be seen. There is the example below of the Shag Harbour incident, one of the most documented cases of a UFO that there has ever been. The documentation is extensive so I'll just post a snippet of it. There is no known photos or videos of this incident that has been released to the public though an underwater diver has stated that he did take photos. The point is something definately happened and the Government of Canada officially declared that a UFO was involved.

Would this incident be cast off as not having happened because no photos or videos have been released?
There are other forms of proof and to cast those other forms of proof off would be illogical.
But you can decide for yourselves. This is not to say that I wouldn't be very cautious about individual sightings but to say no pics or it didn't happen is rather rude.

The Shag Harbour UFO Incident was the reported impact of an unknown large object into waters near Shag Harbour, a tiny fishing village in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia on October 4, 1967.

The impact was investigated by various civilian (Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Canadian Coast Guard) and military (Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Canadian Air Force) agencies of the Government of Canada. The RCN conducted at least one underwater search to attempt to locate the remains of any associated objects. The Government of Canada declared that no known aircraft was involved and the source of the impact remains unknown to this day. It is one of very few cases where government agency documents have formally declared an unidentified flying object was involved. Several military witnesses that were interviewed, including a RCN diver involved in the search, have claimed an alien spacecraft was responsible.[citation needed] It was also claimed by several of the witnesses that units of the United States armed forces were involved in the search. The case was also briefly investigated by the U.S. Condon Committee UFO study, which offered no explanation.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I've seen credible members ridiculed, mocked, called a liar for not having pictures of their UFO, ET, or paranormal experience. Such demand for photographic evidence is ignorant and displays intellectual dishonesty by the one demanding such evidence.

First, not everyone carries a camera with them. And cell phone cameras are particularly notorious for poor quality photos, especially at night. But that's not the most important fact about photographic evidence...

Every day in the US, courts decide the outcome of criminal and civil cases on the basis of TESTIMONIAL evidence alone. Most cases don't have the photographic evidence to make or break a case, if there is any photo evidence at all. The credibility of the witness is of the utmost importance. Photos usually don't decide the case, but the credibility of the witness, as deemed by the judge or jury, does. Let this be clear: courts proclaim every day that "it happened" because of TESTIMONIAL, not photographic, evidence.

I need to ask: what makes you, the internet cruiser/squatter, so much more skilled at deciding the truthfulness of a witness or their credibility than a court? By demanding photographic evidence, you are essentially saying that the witness is not credible and therefore cannot be trusted unless they come up with a picture. How have you been able to acquire such skills as deciding the character of a person you have never met and never seen?

Let's forget, for a moment, about the UFO witness. What about history? Have you demanded from the publisher of history books photographic evidence for the claims made by the witnesses of historic events? Often, those events are witnessed by only one person, perhaps just a few. Do you deny that these events took place based on the fact that there is no photographic evidence to support the statement that the event did happen?

To those who relish the words "pics or it didn't happen" I would suggest this to you: you reveal gross ignorance by making such statement. Before the existence of cameras we had to rely on the credibility of a person making a claim of being a witness to some event. We used our judgment, hopefully in a fair manner, to decide if they were being truthful. Courts still do this today, every single day, thousands of times a day. You do it every day too with your spouse, your kids, your employees, your parents, and your friends. If I didn't know better, I would begin to think that, because your demand for pics comes within the context of a UFO sighting, you are being intellectually dishonest by ignoring the credibility of the witness by your outright dismissal of their story simply because there are no pics. You're already prejudiced against the idea of ETs, UFOs, etc and just use the "pics or it didn't happen" statement to discredit someone who is likely a truthful person. If that's what's really going on, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for being the liar you claim these witnesses to be.

Pics..........................................................................................or it didn't happen.
U mad?
*looks at the giant Mountain-out-of-a-molehill 10 page thread*
Yep, you definitely just MAD.

Consider it incentive to actually take photos/video instead of gawking like an idiot.
Seriously, do you think people will believe the fantastic stories told here based on the WORDS of a stranger alone? ESPECIALLY when a source cannot be verified??
*facepalm*
I try to use something called "common sense" instead.

Also: I'm sure dis-info agents LOVE people who will believe whatever people TELL them. No evidence required.

Deal w/it.

INB4 HURR YOU'D JUST CRITICIZE THE PHOTOS DURRR. That's not an acceptable excuse for lack of evidence EVER nor should it mean that the OP shouldn't try. Grow up.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Dude, the ones that ask for proof or it didn't happen are just trolling. Trolls will say stuff like that. They don't care weather it's true or not. They want to make you look stupid. If you respond to them saying oh I don't have pics or explaining why you don't have pics or why it's ignorant to ask such questions... you just feed the troll. This is what they love to get you upset and make threads like these.

Op i would appreciate it very much if you would post an image proving your point , thank you very much

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

I remember when someones word meant everything, now it's worthless!

We have no one to blame but ourselves. People lie all the time, people misidentify objects all the time, believing someone just based on their word would be foolish. Pics or it didn't happen, doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means it may as well not have, because it can never be verified. At that point all you can do is move on and look for cases that actually do have evidence.

aaaaaand what about before they had cameras??? Before "pics or it didn't happen" it was ok and believable that someone saw a UFO. There are MANY paintings and pictorials of UFOs out there that are not pics of the actual moment but someone painting or drawing what they saw.

Do you consider those false too?

Originally posted by computerwiz32
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

Dude, the ones that ask for proof or it didn't happen are just trolling. Trolls will say stuff like that. They don't care weather it's true or not. They want to make you look stupid. If you respond to them saying oh I don't have pics or explaining why you don't have pics or why it's ignorant to ask such questions... you just feed the troll. This is what they love to get you upset and make threads like these.

Listen to this guy.

It's an old troll stand-by that is directly related to the old "Tits or GTFO" rule and you guys were successfully baited for over 10 pages worth LOL.

That said it isn't any less-valid in a place like ATS, nay, it should be TWICE as valid.

aaaaaand what about before they had cameras??? Before "pics or it didn't happen" it was ok and believable that someone saw a UFO. There are MANY paintings and pictorials of UFOs out there that are not pics of the actual moment but someone painting or drawing what they saw.

Do you consider those false too?

I certainly don't consider them FACTUAL.
Not unless there was testimony from more than one...

reply to post by Visiting ESB






This has been going on in Norway for some years now. It may be some sort of geophysical electrical phenomena but electrical phenomena doesn't take soil samples.

People who say pics or it didn't happen, should really just say "Nothing has ever happened to me. Bwaaaahhh!"

Seriously, no amount of proof is ever going to convince a skeptic. A skeptic will always stare proof down and dismiss it. Even personal experience. I seen em, and I don't care what you think about it. My brothers house is haunted and he'll NEVER believe it.

When Galileo was brought before the inquisition he invited the members of the "court" to look thru his telescope to see for themselves. They declined claiming the device was somehow "evil". That it lies. He had to read a statement that denounced the telescope as a "lie". He did, then later, privately was heard to mutter, "But it does tell the truth, it does."

Just goes to show that empirical evidence isn't always accepted if it happens to interfere with the current paradigm.

Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

This has been going on in Norway for some years now. It may be some sort of geophysical electrical phenomena but electrical phenomena doesn't take soil samples.

edit on 5-12-2011 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

See THIS I believe. Not "HEY GUISE I SEE ALIEMS!".

Norway: Doing it like it should be done, showin' up everyone.

S&F. Great topic. I completely understand, and agree. I myself had a unique experience as a child at the age of 10. Me and a friend had a direct sighting, within close range, of a Sasquatch. I could hear it breathing!
Imagine how difficult it was to be taken seriously at the age of 10. I was so scared that I was immobilized physically, and could not take one more step into the woods when prompted by the nearby adults to show them where the sighting occured. I was absolutely frozen with fear. I even wrote a letter to The Bigfoot Information Center in Oregon. This event changed me forever. You see something that you know to be true, but you are completely unable to prove it at all, and you don't even have the "credibility" of being an adult.... much less the convenience having a camera. I know what it feels like on that end of the experience.
This led to my interest in the paranormal, and science in general. That experience is a big part of the reason that I'm a member here on ATS. This is the first mention of this event here on ATS that I have ever made. In large part, I didn't want to have trolls question my credibility, or bring up the issues of pics, etc. I understand the need for scientific evidence and objectivity. I do not indulge in magical thinking. I don't want to "believe in" something. I want to know the facts. I want to see proof. That being said, credible people do honestly see things and have experiences that go beyond the norms of day to day living. And they don't walk around with a camera waiting for a photo opp, to be sure. Excellent topic, Op.

I've had some really great, responsive and supportive posts in this thread, with a lot of thought put into each of them. I wish I could respond to each one but time prevents me from doing that. So, thanks to everyone here!

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I've had some really great, responsive and supportive posts in this thread, with a lot of thought put into each of them. I wish I could respond to each one but time prevents me from doing that. So, thanks to everyone here!

>Implying most of them weren't just MAD, like the OP.

Originally posted by intrptr

When Galileo was brought before the inquisition he invited the members of the "court" to look thru his telescope to see for themselves. They declined claiming the device was somehow "evil". That it lies. He had to read a statement that denounced the telescope as a "lie". He did, then later, privately was heard to mutter, "But it does tell the truth, it does."

Sorry to go off topic your post has little to do with the topic either. Where do you get your facts?

Galileo's trial had nothing to do with telescopes. A glance through a telescope will not tell you that the Sun does not orbit the Earth. He was tried in 1632 for advocating the Copernican system in a published work, contrary to an "agreement" he had made. He read no statement "denouncing" the telescope.

In 1609 Galileo gave a telescope to the Duke of Tuscany (I believe that would be a member of the Court). The Duke was stoked. Galileo's work with telescopes was hardly vilified by the PTB of the time.

The astronomical discoveries he made with his telescopes were described in a short book called the Starry Messenger published in Venice in May 1610. This work caused a sensation. Galileo claimed to have seen mountains on the Moon, to have proved the Milky Way was made up of tiny stars, and to have seen four small bodies orbiting Jupiter. These last, with an eye to getting a position in Florence, he quickly named 'the Medicean stars'. He had also sent Cosimo de Medici, the Grand Duke of Tuscany, an excellent telescope for himself.

The Venetian Senate, perhaps realising that the rights to manufacture telescopes that Galileo had given them were worthless, froze his salary. However he had succeeded in impressing Cosimo and, in June 1610, only a month after his famous little book was published, Galileo resigned his post at Padua and became Chief Mathematician at the University of Pisa (without any teaching duties) and 'Mathematician and Philosopher' to the Grand Duke of Tuscany. In 1611 he visited Rome where he was treated as a leading celebrity; the Collegio Romano put on a grand dinner with speeches to honour Galileo's remarkable discoveries. He was also made a member of the Accademia dei Lincei (in fact the sixth member) and this was an honour which was especially important to Galileo who signed himself 'Galileo Galilei Linceo' from this time on.

www.gap-system.org...