How can someone have a Near Death Experience and see people burning in Hell if The Bible says no one

I really don't know where to start with this nonsense.

A) There is no evidence that NDEs are anything more substantial than your average REM-induced dream - misfiring brain synapses and the conscious/subconscious mind arranging them within the context of some tapestry of imagination in order to try to make "sense" of it.

B) There is no evidence that just because the Bible says something is true (or doesn't) that it is necessarily true (or isn't).

C) The idea that an "eternal" resting place (Heaven or Hell) is somehow bound by our linear perception of events is about as ignorant as you can get without forgetting to take your next breath. Just because one thing happens "first" from the perspective of a being with a linear perception of time, does not mean the "eternal" state of things does not already exist. That isn't to say I believe in Heaven or Hell, it's just funny to see people claim they are "eternal" and in the next breath claim that they can't yet exist in their final state. The definition of "eternal" makes all talk about time lines completely nonsensical.

D) Don't you have anything better to do?

because Near Death experiences take us to the source of the Collective Unconscious, the wellspring of all of the symbology, associations, beliefs, everything really, that mankind has accumulated throughout our history as a species. More importantly though, or perhaps more relevant, is that like the world of dreams (which is closely related to that of NDE's), our existing beliefs and subconsciousness is the brush that paints in these experiences.

If you subconsciously believe in hell, it's no stretch to fathom the possibility of entering a hell-like realm during a Near Death experience. If you view this through the lens of quantum physics and philosophy, which postulates that individual belief is INTEGRAL to our experience of this material life on Earth, it's possible to understand the NDE through a different light. If you're a self-identified Christian and subconsciously feel that you don't measure up to the ideal you have in your mind when you die, the fear of eternal damnation could become exactly what happens... as in, your subconscious belief that you're not good enough for Heaven could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now, if a Christian, or any other adherent to a rigid, dogmatic faith, is unable to reconcile the possibilities I've outlined above with their belief system, there's no way that they're going to objectively consider anything I've hypothesized here. They'd be operating from a closed mind, and discussion of a philosophical nature would be futile. I hope this is not the case.

Near death experiences are caused by D.M.T overloads in the brain. If someone says they saw hell its because they did, it does not mean that hell is real or fake.

reply to post by arpgme


Because it's what they want to see.

People's visions from OOBE often vary. Some see Buddha, some meet Jesus, some go to hell, some go no where.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by arpgme

 

Because it's what they want to see.

People's visions from OOBE often vary. Some see Buddha, some meet Jesus, some go to hell, some go no where.

So does anyone really know the answer to this question???

Originally posted by GmoS719

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
I would suggest that you stop believing the stories of another, they are manipulated fairy tales.

Through my own direct experience in the spirit world I can attest to much of what these holy books state, but its not as simple as they make it out to be. Language fails to describe the truth of what is and these books are the remnant writings that have been squeezed through 3-4 languages before being read today, meetings of many men were held to edit these writings to remove anything they desired not to be seen.

Do not hold them as absolute for even a single moment, for they are the product of man, not god.

Man knows nothing of god, we drop to our knees in awe and the tiniest scraps of understanding we can muster can only be related to what we already know, the image of our selves, something that would be relevant to us.

There is no hell, there is no heaven - What exists beyond the yawning grave is beyond anything you could possibly imagine.

Its time to stop playing in the card board box my friends,

-GM

Thanks for your opinion on whether Christianity is a fairy tale or not.
Even though no one asked for it.

edit on 2-12-2011 by GmoS719 because: (no reason given)

This does not appear to be a true thank you but rather a sacastic response. Is this the Christian way of communicating? Sarcasm masking insult?

Perhaps because the bible is a bogus story, written by man, and not really the word of any God.

Just a thought.

But I think that people see what they expect to see, during NDE's.

If you expect to die and go to heaven, that is what you will see. If you expect to die and go to hell, that is what you will see....

In other words, perhaps the after life is what you make of it.

Originally posted by jewdiful
because Near Death experiences take us to the source of the Collective Unconscious, the wellspring of all of the symbology, associations, beliefs, everything really, that mankind has accumulated throughout our history as a species. More importantly though, or perhaps more relevant, is that like the world of dreams (which is closely related to that of NDE's), our existing beliefs and subconsciousness is the brush that paints in these experiences.

If you subconsciously believe in hell, it's no stretch to fathom the possibility of entering a hell-like realm during a Near Death experience. If you view this through the lens of quantum physics and philosophy, which postulates that individual belief is INTEGRAL to our experience of this material life on Earth, it's possible to understand the NDE through a different light. If you're a self-identified Christian and subconsciously feel that you don't measure up to the ideal you have in your mind when you die, the fear of eternal damnation could become exactly what happens... as in, your subconscious belief that you're not good enough for Heaven could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now, if a Christian, or any other adherent to a rigid, dogmatic faith, is unable to reconcile the possibilities I've outlined above with their belief system, there's no way that they're going to objectively consider anything I've hypothesized here. They'd be operating from a closed mind, and discussion of a philosophical nature would be futile. I hope this is not the case.

Well put!

Originally posted by PrimalRed
reply to post by arpgme

 

The Bible says that all souls go to the graveyard and one day Jesus will return and resurrect everyone for judgement...

Scripture or it didn't happen

"Scripture or it didn't happen"??? My mother-in-law is a super believer in scripture. Script of any kind, for that matter. If it is written, it must be so. Everything in the newspaper was true. She would only believe written words. What's with that? Why is the written word so much more valuable than the oral word, and why do people put so much belief in a book (Bible) that they have no real idea of how it was put together? Shouldn't it be that those things that can be proven true, are probably true and those things that can't be proven true, may or may not be true? Whatever in the Bible can be proven true, then, is probably true; and those things that can't be proven true, may, or may not be true.

reply to post by arpgme


Well the overwhelming number of NDEs ( something on the order of 95% depending on who you read) come back and report there is no Hell. There is also a great deal of suspicion about those NDEs including Hell as being a lie used to manipulate.

However, it is more likely that soul's interpretation of other souls in torment. There is absolutely no Hell, etc. It is a construct used to control through fear.

Those are good questions OP. There is a lot I don't understand either. And I don't know for sure this is the answer but the New Testament was written after Jesus died --at least the parts about "heaven." There is a man who wrote a book called "The Evolution of God" (by Robert Wright). I haven't read the book but I've read some of the articles on it. Supposedly the idea of heaven didn't even come about till 50 years after Jesus died. If that is really true that might explain some stuff.

Man has attempted through various religions and stories around the world to describe "God." Each story is like a facet but I don't really think any one of them is the whole end all truth about God. Its just the best we could do to describe God. So when people are having NDEs ..they usually line up with what the person's belief system was while they were alive. And many don't report seeing "God" they report seeing Light which feels overwhelmingly loving. I read a lot of the NDEs and its the few, not the many, that report Jesus and those by people who strongly believed in Jesus prior to their experience. I don't really think "God" or Divine Being or God/Goddess cares so much what we called him/her. I think "God" is beyond that. We quibble about it here but God can relate to each one of us where we are in our beliefs.

And those that had a lot of fear or a lot of guilt might see Hell. Might. Thats not even always the case.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sorry no they weren't. Helmut Koester of Harvard has argued that the Nag Hammadi Gnostic-Jesus texts were written very early, almost as early as the Biblical gospels themselves. And Elaine Pagels, who did a doctorate under Koester at Harvard, has popularized this view in The Gnostic Gospels and the more recent Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas, but it's more convenient for people like you to say it's not.

The reason it's banned is obvious, because it doesn't speak favorably of organised religion and also crontradicts quite a lot of what's written in other Gospels. I've read them all and the Gospel of Thomas contains less dogma and doctrine than the others.

The following words speaks for itself. No wonder the Roman Catholic Church banned it.

Jesus denounces anyone who puts their spiritual development in the hands of others, be they priests, prophets or politicians.

The fathers kingdom is spread out upon the Earth and the people do not see it. This kingdom is within us and not as the Church has insisted, in the heavens barred to the sinner by Saint Peter.

Truer words have never been spoken.

oops delete this

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by Deetermined

 

I'm talking about the Gospel of Thomas. What is written about heaven, sin and the apocalyspe differs in the Gospel of Thomas compared to the other Gospels and there is less dogma & doctrine. It also mentions that after the death of his master Thomas travelled east, where as, the other disciples travelled west, therefore it's no surprise that some of the teachings in the Gospel of Thomas are very similar to Buddhist teachings.

Buddhist Afterlife & NDE accounts

www.hknet.org.nz...
www.near-death.com...
www.near-death.com...
www.buddhistgeeks.com...
www.nderf.org...

edit on 3-12-2011 by kindred because: links

I also want to add there is a hell of the mind. The Bible is very symbolic. Even Jesus is described symbolically --there is no clear physical description of him in the Bible --nothing that states his height, weight, hair color, eye color, etc. Hell too is symbolic... its a place of torment in our minds when we feel cut off, separate, or ashamed, guilty, etc. Its just not a good place in our heads to be. I personally think that hell is nothing more than psychological.. not a real place of fire and brimstone itself but a state of mind that feels like a hell. As is heaven. I know not everyone will agree but to me its early psychology.

I agree. It's all to do with consciousness and consciousness itself can be quite hellish at times. Plenty of people, myself included can testify to that.

reply to post by Deetermined


Yep Jc and Buddha

JC came first

All his glory

then something else

but the important thing is your heart

Elf

reply to post by Deetermined


Mainly so,

There is the option of being "normal"

Whatever that my be


Kind Regards

Elf

reply to post by eeks4


Only the person who sees it.

So no.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


Lol, You just contradicted yourself. Saying there is no heaven or hell is fine. Telling people not to believe another man's writing, fine. But then you say you have been in contact with the spirit world and to listen to you.

What makes you more credible then those fairy tales?