How can someone have a Near Death Experience and see people burning in Hell if The Bible says no one

People have dreams about everything, many which can be worked out and simply put down to thought process. Perhaps there is a hell, perhaps we are living on it now?.

reply to post by UncoolSam


I wonder how many times you can call people stupid and dumb before a mod removes this crap?!?!

We know that this universe had a beginning. Was God the fist thing?
We just ask the question, does god exist?

How about someone posting some facts here?

How many believers (no matter the religion), who have had a NDE and what they learnt/saw and if any changed their mind with regards religion or their way of life?

How many non-believers who had a NDE and what they learnt/saw and if any changed their mind with regards religion or their way of life?

Whether the bible is the word of god or a fairy tale book, the fact still remains that it was held up high and proclaimed to the world that it is the word of god and we must accept it as that so it would be very interesting to hear if people have gone/seen heaven and hell or not because these places are mentioned in this book.

Originally posted by Allin1inall
reply to post by arpgme
Maybe positive NDEs are just glimpses of the place we go in between lives and different levels of consciousness, I guess you could call it home-base. But maybe some don't deserve to see home-base because they've lived negative/bad/evil lives (no rest), so they're immediately tossed into another life or some type of purgatory that may be totally awful according to how the person lived their life, which would explain the negative NDEs.

If this is true, and you are a good athiest then your spiritual world will be your perfect heaven.
However, if you are wrong, then hell awaits you.

Is it worth finding out that Heaven and hell truly exists when its too late?
Once an athiest dies and finds out that hell exists, its too late. No second chances.

reply to post by Magnum007

We don't believe in nothing, we believe that the religious nuts are wrong...

That is a great point. Most of the religious people cant even agree with them selves within their own belief system.

reply to post by arpgme


It is my understanding that hell and the lake of fire are two completely different abodes.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The key to understanding the Christian’s belief lays in Jesus and not the Hebrew belief. As you read the scriptures you must always separate Christianity from Judaic thought. The story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:20-31 is the key between Judaic and Christian belief. The Luke story tells us that there is not only consciousness after death but also there is judgment immediately after death. If the Lazarus account is true then the man Lazarus had to have been judged to have been in the abode of Abraham. The same applies to the rich man. The rich man had to have been judged in order to have been in Hell. So the key to this is that you either believe the Luke account or disbelieve the Luke account.

The Christian is taught that the physical body dies only once and then is judged.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Judaic belief is that the physical body dies and lies in an unknown limbo in Sheol till a general resurrection happens when all bodies and souls are reunited and judged. This would mean that the reunited physical body is judged and then must die again regardless of whether it is saved or condemned. The reason is that flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven. That teaches that the resurrected body must die (change) for either good or bad.

That brings us right back to the Luke account of Lazarus and the rich man. Most Christians are taught that just because it is written in the New Testament that it applies to Christianity but that also is not true. The New Testament is actually the continuation of the Old Testament by Jewish characters.

Some have taught that the Luke account is actually a parable while others insist that it is a factual account. That is why this all hinges on the Luke account and exactly what you want to believe. Regardless of what you choose you must also consider Jesus’ teaching that you only die once and then your soul is judged. The Christian will then realize that the terrestrial body which returns to the elements of the earth is of no further need in salvation.

reply to post by arpgme


There is no reason to think that we would not get glimpses of it to scare us. Or that some demon wouldn't make ou afraid by making you see it.

I mean, most of what we think hell looks like is constructed socially by ourselves, not actually in the bible. Bible just says it's fiery and painful.

Also we don't exactly know how all that stuff works. There's the area of punishment, divided between the chosen and unchosen, there's the second death that destroys you I think if I recall. It's a whole bunch of unorganized thoughts in my head. Too busy to care, considering I follow Jesus and don't have to worry about it. You should too and not worry about the things that don't matter.

reply to post by Seede

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I have a comment to this.

What is the book of life?

Gods book of life must be every living thing that is brought forth on earth. God knows exactly how many and who is going to enter life on earth.

Existence is like a growing seed. If you exchange growth with expansion, you can see how it fits in to our understanding of our universe.

Now if God created the seed. God would know exactly what the seed would produce. The seed is the book of life.

This also fits in with the people crying to God under the alter. When God says; hold on not every name in the book has appeared yet. That means they are not borne yet.

Luke 16:19-31

King James Version (KJV)

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---

--many people have SEEN heaven and HELL, and many await in Abraham bossom(where the saved go to await judgement day) and the non saved are in Gehenna. it is a place of torment but it(gehena), will be cast into the lake of fire after Jesus second coming according to the book of revelation. the interesting part it that they can see and speak to both sides but not cross over,

hell and the lake of fire are two different places the lake of fire is in the outer darkness, Gehenna is in the center of the earth---- there is only one place in our physical world where a pit can be bottomless and that would be in the center of a sphere(earth) do to the gravitational forces if you are in the center each side you look is "up"thereforer making it bottomless--------

So, in what way does having a NDE and supposedly going to hell [for a moment?] have anything to do with going to heaven? I fail to see your connection here.

Now, if I don't feel like WORSHIPing any "gods" ... Does this mean i'm going to burn in hell? Will I be killed for not believing? oooOOOoooo. I'm so freaking scared.

Look at the world today, outside of your "white picket fence life" .. Is this not the hell your bible speaks of? Or is there really an evil looking, horned devil living below the surface in the lava pits, barking at people, poking them with a pitch fork, just waiting for so-called sinners to be sent his way?

LOL, think about it. When your jesus doesn't return to save you from yourself, don't tell me I was right.

"The man" made this book long ago knowing how much power it can hold over sheeple, and re-wrote it many times to suit the dates. Is that not enough proof that is be a fairy tale? (sheeple, like a shepHERD[er] telling you where to go, indirectly and you, without question, OBEY. [does this sound like mind control in crude form?])

Anyways, if there is such a "holy spirit", which I doubt, then it would not want you to go around trying to convince others he is there and they must convert or they will burn in hell [would be nice, considering my location is usually quite cold and some warmth might be nice for a change..].

I'm still waiting for this god to strike me down for mocking him... all religions can lick my left nut, and only the left nut. This is what convinces me they don't exist.

That's my 2 cents, you can put those pennies in your churches "offering to god tray".

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST


Who witnessed this happen?

How could they ever communicate their story to us from hell?

How do we know all this is true? Because its written in a book?

Originally posted by Backinthesaddle
reply to post by UncoolSam

 

I wonder how many times you can call people stupid and dumb before a mod removes this crap?!?!

I could go on forever when talking about arms dealers, weapons manufactorers, politicians, bankers, soldiers and all athiests that would much rather trust a politician that wants them dead rather than a christian.

This whole world is going to war. Economies are collapsing so what do the athiest politicians do? they waste billions of dollars on another worthless war instead of spending that tax payer money on their own economies.

Do you respect your political leaders that want you to suffer a miserable future, because it seems many athiest voters want to suffer by voting for more wars.

Obuma is a man of peace who is soon going to agree with the atheist generals that Syria, Iran and other countries must be bombed with your money. Because his generals want world war 3.

As you can see, athiests are obeying the Bible where it says that during the end of days, there will be wars and rumours of wars. This is happening today. Yet athiest leaders have no inclination to stop it. They are all insane.

reply to post by spy66


that is another issue. we are discussing the BIBLICAL view of heaven and hell.nobody is telling you to believe this you clicked on the thread, notice what it says of unbelievers "" neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."" seems like the problem lies within the individual and not a lack of evidence of GOD

i would also like to thank all the people and entities that despise us followers of Christ, thank you for fulfilling yet another apocalyptic prophecy.

I have only posted on this site perhaps twice in the past, though I "lurk" all the time. I HAD to respond on this because of what I've recently read from the Nag Hammadi Scriptures. According to the "Secret" Gospel of John (what John SHOULD read like if the church fathers hadn't manipulated all the words) is this: (I have condensed somewhat so it's not too long)

I said to the Savior “Lord will all the souls then be led safely into pure light?”
He answered and said to me: These are great matters that have arisen in your mind, and it is difficult to explain them to anyone except those of the unshakable generation.
……..
I said to him “Lord will the souls of people be rejected who have not done these things, but upon whom the power and the spirit of life have descended?” He answered: If the spirit descends upon them, by all means they will be saved and transformed. Power will descend upon every person for without it no one can stand. After birth, if the spirit of life grows and power comes and strengthens that soul no one will be able to lead it astray. But people upon whom the false spirit descends are misled by it and go astray.

I said “Lord where will their souls go when they leave their flesh?” He said to me: The soul in which there is more power than the contemptible spirit is strong. She escapes from evil, and through the intervention of the incorruptible one, she is saved and is taken up to eternal rest.

I said “Lord where will the souls go of people who have not known to whom they belong”
He said: the contemptible spirit has grown stronger in such people while they were going astray. This spirit lays a heavy burden on the soul, leads her into evil deeds and hurls her down into forgetfulness. After the soul leaves the body, she is handed over to the authorities who have come into being through the archon. They bind her with chains and throw her into prison. They go around with her until she awakens from forgetfulness and acquires knowledge. This is how she attains perfection and is saved.

I said “Lord how can the soul become younger and return into its mother’s womb or into the human.” He was glad when I asked him about this and said to me: You are truly blessed for you have understood. This soul will be made to follow another soul in whom the spirit of life dwells, and she is saved through that one. Then she will not be thrust into flesh again.
(INTO FLESH AGAIN! REINCARNATION!!!)
Lord where will the souls go of people who had knowledge but turned away. They will be taken to the place where the angels of misery go, where there is no repentance. They will be kept there until the day when those who have blasphemed against the spirit will be tortured and punished eternally.


-----
my note: early centuries of followers of Jesus taught reincarnation. This has been lost along the way. I suggest anyone interested in the bible get a hard copy of The Nag Hammadi Scriptures edited by Marvin Meyer. It's mind boggling and alludes to us being created by many gods and the chaos that ensued and why we are in such turmoil now.

Peace and Light.
Jodi

Originally posted by spy66
How people can believe this crap is beyond me. Judgment day hasn't even taken place yet.
No one has been judged, and hell is probably not even created.
How some near death experienced individuals can proclaim to have seen something that has never taken place is foolish to say the least. They are lying.

Puh-lease! Thousands upon thousands of people are NOT lying.

reply to post by angellicview


Or possibly they are receiving a vision. The key words here are "near death" since the individuals did not actually die then it would seem more likely that they were given a vision of heaven and hell. I believe this more then I believe that they all lied.

I'm sure this has been referenced already, but the hypothesis of the body's release of '___' being the cause of NDEs is quite valid and has been researched by science, but it's hard to do a controlled study on the subject because of the ethical issues involved in inducing NDE's in a person. It's also hard to confirm in '___' is the cause in most NDEs simply because '___' is out of the human body within 60 minutes, and Doctors have other things on their mind (like the cause of the NDE) while in these situations.

Two EXCELLENT books to read on the subject is "'___': The Spirit Molicule" and "Inner Paths to Outer Space". Both are written by the same Dr who studied '___''s effects in the 90's with test subjects.

The OP seems to have been influenced by the Watchtower, also known as Jehovah's Witnesses, s cult originated in America by a very shady guy..I have read the history of this " religion" and how it began, and I understand it's basic principles. They believe that everyone ( who is a Witness) will die and be gone, literally. Then God ( YHWH) or Jehovah will bring to life those in His memory whom he chooses. The rest are no more..no memory or conscience..literal death.

However, this is not what mainline Christian theology believes. Most scriptures state that we will be able to know where we are and be soul conscious..in glory if a believer in Christ, or to hell if not. There is a Kingdom of God that seems to be more advanced than the abode of those saved but not totally given over to the Holy Spirit like the old time saints that " walked with God" and as Christ went to Hell to preach the good news to those who were righteous under the Law and who did not deserve Hell but who could not ascend to heaven without Christ and lead them out.

It is believed by the Cathollc church there is also purgatory, a place for those who need to work out their salvation before being acceptable in the presence of God but who have escapred eternal damnation by virtue of their baptism and belief in Christ. Among Christian mainline churches there are common major beliefs and multitudes of minor differences but in general they all proclaim the necessity of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior and most require baptism as well.

Hell is either depicted as an eternal torment or a place that simply has no access to God in any way and is a result of rejection of christ and denial of Gods reality. After all, how can God deal with anyone who will not even acknowledge His reality? Some people could stand before God and deny it is real , and some know it is real and do not care, preferring the cares and pleasures of this world to any possible rewards in the spirit realm based on rejecting the sins that would keep him seperate from God.

At any rate, it is pretty clear to me at least that the spirit is eternal and that we will be aware at death of what is happening; those that have sin on their soul imparted by Adam's fall and/or by rejecting Christ when offered will condemn themselves and cannot complain. They will understand that only holiness can stand before God and be trusted with all He has in store and that a sin nature will be refused entrance to Gods kingdom : Most people who have near death experiences that speak about hell say that they were not arguing or could not comprehend why they were being rejected, and that they had to admit the undeniable sins accounted to them and could not claim any injustice.

According to Christian dogma God accepts those who are in Christ as sinless but those who reject Christ will be judged on their lives or by the Old Law, and obviously no one in those positions is free of personal sin of some sort and therefore would be pleading guilty as the sins were revealed and the soul held accountable. Christ condemnds no one; each soul condemns it self when it realizes and sees the standard, holiness, and how their imparted sins are an affront to that holiness and unacceptable. Sinners would pollute heaven itself if allowed into paradise and must be excluded for love to reign and God the creator and Christ and Holy Spirit in one to be the standard for all eternity.

Imagine the wonders awaiting us! God the creator has vast and unlimited realities and wonderment to be explored but first one must be willing to believe it at minimum and to comprehend the full storehood of treaures awaiting a dedicated committment to making the future with God more important than petty pleasure, vices, lusts and desires of the flesh that we use as diversions from a holy life, and which God sees as an intentional rejection, whih he cannot tolerate for the sake of all. it is complex yet simple, and one day we will find out who was right..I think I know, and perhaps so do you.

Faith is not a subject to be argued about ; either accept the main premises or reject them, and be willing to pay the price if you happen to choose wrongly...no whining and no breaks for those who choose unwisely.