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How can someone have a Near Death Experience and see people burning in Hell if The Bible says no one

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posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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When there is some imperical evidence that say's anything in "The Book Of Fairey Tales" ( bible) is true. Then we can start to examine what it say's. Until then, it's stories that's it, . Stories we kill, mame, and war over.

Millions have died and will die in the name of God. What a damn shame that is. When you believe in fairey tales & base your life on them. Don't be surprised when there isnt that "fairey tale ending". Religion poisions everything.

Simply put. There is NO HEAVEN AND NO HELL they are man made creations something along the lines of good & evil, can't have one without the other.




posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by arpgme[/i
 
May be the bible is interpreted by man, therefore wrong! Maybe the bible is a tool for the church to keep the masses afraid to think for themselves. Maybe the church used Jesus as a tool to control the masses. Maybe the masses used the church's guiding hand to kill in the name of jesus during the crusades!



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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I have had a death experience.Two words - beautiful & peaceful. I felt I was embraced by our Creator and our Creator is perfect.

I am not religious but did receive religious schooling. I would describe myself as Spiritual. I have read the bible and only have one thing to say - it was written when very few people could write let alone read. Explore all the dimensions of that concept because there are many.

I know what happened during my death experience. I do not need anyone to tell me what I saw or felt. I do not need a scientist to tell me it was my mind playing tricks - was the scientist in tandem with me? No.

People need to start using their own mind. By all means read and read extensively but still maintain that you have your own brain/mind/intellect. I have sketched my experience and I sometimes return to my experience. I do not return because I want to die - I need to remind myself of what I saw and felt and learned. The one aspect of my death experience is my inability to get depressed. I am still sensitive and have an enormous capacity for empathy - as I did before only now I cannot get depressed - I get sad but somehow cannot go any deeper. I wish I could bottle my experience and give it to all the people on anti-depressant medication.

Much Peace...



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by arpgme
 


When you have an NDE or outter body experience, the laws of physics are completely different. It's like we exist as pure consciousness and what you think or believe will manifest itself. Therefore if you're highly religious, you are likely to see Jesus in heaven and if you're an atheist, you'll probably experience darkness & dirt with a lot of worms wriggling about, that is until you realise you're still alive and where you go from there is anyones guess.

I suggest you read the Gospel of Thomas which contradicts quite a lot of what is written in the bible, probably the reason why it's banned from the bible. Most of what you talk about is nothing but dogma and doctrine.

Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

Contradictions in the bible, which make no sense as the event never happened.

According to Mark, Jesus announced that "The time is at hand; the kingdom of God is drawing near." As Mark describes it, Jesus declared that the end of time is at hand; the world is about to undergo cataclysmic transformation. Jesus predicted war, strife, conflict, and suffering, in Chapter 13, followed by a world-shattering event -- the coming of the kingdom of God. According to Mark 9:1, Jesus expected that event to happen during the life of his own disciples. He said to Peter and James and John, "There are some of you standing here who shall not taste death until you see the kingdom of God come with power."

The Gospel of Thomas:

The gnostic Gospel of Thomas, on the contrary, says something very different. Here the "kingdom of God" is not an event expected to happen in history, nor is it a "place." In fact, the author of Thomas seems to almost ridicule such ideas as if they were naive.

According to the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'Look, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you."

The Gospel of Thomas, instead says that the kingdom of God represents a kind of state of self-discovery. Jesus goes on to say, "Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourself, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the children of the living Father." But the disciples, mistaking that "kingdom" for a future event, just as they do in the Gospel of Mark persist in naive questioning. They ask, "When will the kingdom come?"

Jesus said: "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is,' or 'There it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the Father is spread out on the earth already, and people do not see it."

According to the Gospel of Thomas, then, the "kingdom of God" seems to symbolize a state of transformed consciousness. One enters that "kingdom" when one comes to know oneself. For the secret of gnosis is that when one comes to know oneself, at the deepest level, simultaneously one comes to know God as the source of one's being.

It's obvious where Jesus and Thomas get their beliefs from: Buddhism.


www.csec.org...


Wow!! Very well said I too believe this as well!
second line!



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


my explanation is that the bible is full of crap.

follow the money



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by GmoS719

Originally posted by Anunaki2012
We dont go to hell, we are already in hell...

LOL, I remember saying this in grade school.


i said it then and i still say it now. it doesnt change the fact that we are indeed in hell



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by N3v3rmor3
 


I agree we are in hell.
I knew this before my death experience.
After my death experience - I know this is hell.

Not the planet mind you - the society and chaos we have constructed upon her.

Much Peace...



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


This is a matter of Christian theology that depends on what denomination you are apart of. Some believe people are going to hell now, and some say when you die we have to wait for Christ's return so all can be judged. God can give a revelation to any person though, so a NDE could be to testify what they saw to other people.
edit on 3-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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Hey everyone, I love the sarcasm and back and forth, at least you are talking about it.

My response to the original post:
First I would consider the source, then remember that as thinking beings our mind will always try to rationalize events that occur in our lives. Just because someone died and came back and believes they had a N.D.E doesn't mean that it really happened. Several possibilities come to mind, first of all, are they known as a liar, second are they all there mentally, third would telling this story be a benefit to them, fourth they actually did remember this when they came back because they believe that this is what happens to people who get a second chance, fifth their brain caused this phenomenon during revival and lastly they saw a vision of the real Hell in the future when there will really be people in it or they saw Hades where the damned wait before final judgement. People are also in Purgatory which isn't as bad as Hades but they are still paying penance for their sins.

I believe they saw a vision of Hell in the future. There are no people in Hell now because GOD hasn't given man his final judgement. GOD can't send anyone to Hell until the time He set as the last chance for anyone to come to him expires. If He were to send anyone to Hell before this time He would be cheating them of any possible good that may have come from the interactions they had with people during their life. He is merciful enough to give them credit for having an impact on someones life even after theirs is over but it also works the other way. If you do nothing or lead people away from the example Jesus set during his life then you will be accountable for that also.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Those who do not pass judgement will THEN go into the lake of fire...

Just my take on your questioning mind...
There is a kind of temporary Hell or (purgatory) some call it where souls who have lived here and are found to be cruel or murderous, etc, have to wait until "Judgement Day". Probably not a very friendly place. If people see that from time to time, thats what I think they are seeing. Maybe as a warning?

Then there is the lake of fire thing...
Right after "Judgment Day", there is a place waiting nearby that looks like a lake of fire... The Sun. People long ago did not know what the sun was made of. They tried to describe their visions in the Bible or elsewheres. Up close it may look like a lake of fire? Souls that go there are unmade as nuclear fusion destroys all matter, even souls? That is the second death. Eternal Hell fire as a place to be punished forever would make God pretty cruel, right? I think the sun is pretty long lived (billions of years?) and that it is "eternal" for the most part. Souls that enter there are no more. Like they never were.

Those that make the grade get to continue for eternity and go out from here and do Gods will in the Universe? Dunno for sure, just seems to make more sense from a practical and ethical, moral sense. I mean if God is love, why would he torture people forever right? If God forgives, why would he torture people forever, right?

All that will matter in the end is what we have done for (or to) others.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by N3v3rmor3
we are indeed in hell


Possible.
We are surrounded by (mostly) darkness - the universe.
We are surrounded by 99.99% of people that want peace, happiness and freedom and what have we got; the 4 riders of the apocolypse doing overtime everyday.

This 'normal' world just isn't normal. This is a part of hell.
Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are removed from hell - rapture ?
Those who don't have faith in Jesus, stay - in hell.

Anyone here had a NDE and seen Tartarus, whilst in the company of the fallen B' nai Elohim or fallen men of YHWH ?



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by spy66
 


that is another issue. we are discussing the BIBLICAL view of heaven and hell.nobody is telling you to believe this you clicked on the thread, notice what it says of unbelievers "" neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."" seems like the problem lies within the individual and not a lack of evidence of GOD


Its not really a different issue at all. Because our awareness cannot have knowledge beyond what our senses have sensed. So if no body has ever been to hell and back, they can not have any factual knowledge about the place.

Your awareness can not sense anything without the flesh. Keep that in mind.

Who in the Bible has been to hell and returned to tell us about how it was? How can this person prove that s/he was there at all?

Written words prove nothing but personal inspiration or a imagination.

You can not tell me what hell is like or even if it exists, Because you have never been there. Non of you have been there.

Dreaming about hell is not the same as if the dream has any bases for being real. The only thing that is real is the dreaming experiance it self.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 06:52 AM
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There is something more that has to do with this discussion of people that see a Hell in their NDE. Some NDEs are very short and some are longer. In the shorter fear filled hellish ones the person sees that and is blasted back into their bodies. So they come back afraid and thinking that hell is a real place for all eternity. In the accounts where people were able to see further it is always said that the moment help is asked for it is given there. And there are guides that are willing to help the person move beyond this mind set of hell and onto the higher levels. And in non-hellish NDEs where people learned things that question has been brought up and the answer always seems to be hell is a man-made state. Its a place that those who are overly fearful or overly guilt ridden make themselves go as a punishment (of their own choosing) because they just can't accept that it isn't their due. In order to proceed they need to go through that. Others don't have that as a feature of their NDE at all because they can accept the love and the Oneness and all right away. That is why it is said you get what you believe. But any hell is temporary in NDEs and when the person is ready that part of their afterlife is over. No one is condemned there eternally.

Some don't go to a heaven or a hell at all. Some need healing and go to what looks like a hospital.

The only judgement in the NDEs comes from us. There is no Being that judges us except ourselves. The judgement is a life review where we see not only from our own perspective how we've lived and each of our actions but we see it and really feel it through all the eyes and hearts of those it affected --all at the same time. And we judge our own life. When it gets to this part in a NDE there is usually a guide mentioned who is full of love for each of us who watches along with us while we review our life. But they don't cast judgement. We do that to ourselves. We also see the good that we have done and those that come back come back talking about how this is a school where we are here to learn.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 


NDE can be resembled with dreaming. The dream or NDE experiance will vanish as soon as the mind stops functioning.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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Spy, I dunno. When people have NDEs they are people who have also had dreams and all will say the NDE experience goes way beyond a dream. It is more real than real. They have additional senses in an NDE that aren't experienced in ordinary dreaming. Some also come back with information. The thing about it being the mind which will die, that assumes that consciousness is located in the brain. We don't really know where consciousness is located -- they're still working on that.

I think its the Tibetan Book of the Dead and someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But it talks about passing through various levels. The first level is shedding the physical. There is also a point where we shed the mental body and a lot of this stuff where we get all nitpicky about is part of that. What is true will remain and what isn't true will be shed. Visions of hell are eventually shed. I believe that those who report visions of hell are in the process of clearing that out of the mental body because it doesn't last. At any time a person can yell for help and release themselves from their own self induced punishment.
edit on 4-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 


When you are in a dream. That dream would seam as real to you as reality would be if you were awake. There is no way you can tell if your awareness is leaving the flesh.

When you dream at night, and you are in your dream. There is no way you would know that you are actually sleeping. Because you are living the dream as if "it" was the real thing. You would never know that you are actually lying in your bed somewhere sleeping. Not until you wake up.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Spy, yes and no. I'm really into dreaming so this much I can tell you. Usually we don't stop to ask ourselves are we dreaming? So in that you are right. And in our dreams we respond as if those events are actually occuring (they may even be thats a whole other topic even discussed on ATS). But yes, we dream and to us it seems very real at the time.

There are those involved in dreaming that have what is called "lucid dreams"... now in those they do ask themselves if they are dreaming and once they are conscious that they are indeed dreaming they can go wherever they want, do whatever they want. They are able to have a conscious dream.

I would say lucid dreaming is sort of the mid ground between ordinary dreaming and NDE. Out of body experiences lean more toward NDE.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Mainly so,

There is the option of being "normal"

Whatever that my be


Kind Regards

Elf


So, you're telling me that the "MAN" was very vague about what it meant to be "reincarnated"? You can't tell if it meant another existence on earth versus a spiritual afterlife?



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by LunaKat
 


NDE can be resembled with dreaming. The dream or NDE experiance will vanish as soon as the mind stops functioning.



I can show you a host of NDE testimonies from people who had no brain activity at the time of their NDE. (Clinically dead)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by UncoolSam
 


Athiest aren't doing any of the things you stated extreme rightwing hard core christians are doing these things!



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