The big thread about being gay.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Annee

 

Thanks for one of the best posts in this thread. 2nd to only the super mod's post above.
I too have worked in a workplace with about 80% Gay folk in and wow it is an eye opener, it was about 10 years back and still see them often.

Thank you. Gays are just people. They are individuals - of individual thought - just like everyone else. They are NOT a "group think".

I got divorced right in the middle of the sexual revolution. I know all about LUST. Nothing beats that first time chemical attraction/reaction. But that chemical attraction wears off - - and then you look at the other person and go "What was I thinking". Point is - - thinking had nothing to do with it.

Love - Nurturing - Commitment - - are all responsibilities. For someone to state gays can't be good parents is ridiculous. Being a good parent has nothing to do with sex.

Gays were forced to create their own culture as they were forced to live on the fringe of society. Many lived a double life. They married - had kids - - and escaped to the craziness of a fringe society - - - forced on them by "acceptable society".

The more they are accepted by society - - the more main stream they become. They are just people who want the same thing as most everyone else.

There has actually been articles recently by gay writers about the loss of the gay culture.

Originally posted by nusnus

If my kid was gay or lesbian or whatever, the first thing I would do would be to educate them on the wrongs of anal sex.

Not all gays have anal sex BTW. And many heteros do.

You have a personal hang up.

Sexual carelessness is hardly a gay only issue.

reply to post by Annee

There has actually been articles recently by gay writers about the loss of the gay culture.

Look... No disrespect or anything... but what exactly is "Gay Culture"?

(Second Line)

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Annee

 

There has actually been articles recently by gay writers about the loss of the gay culture.

Look... No disrespect or anything... but what exactly is "Gay Culture"?

(Second Line)

If you have to ask . . . .

reply to post by Annee

If you have to ask . . . .

Yes... I do have to ask, because I don't already know.

This is typically the reason that people ask questions; in order to learn things that they were not previously aware of.

So, how about we start from the top where you Know what "Gay Culture" is, enough to explain it to someone who doesn't know.

And then we shall proceed from there, in the idiom of an explanation or answer that does not involve vagary or disrespect.

Remember, the Operative Phrase is "Deny Ignorance", not "Perpetuate Ignorance"

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


A bit like our culture Music,Clothes, Art allsorts of things.

www.youtube.com...

When I was a Kid I sooooo wanted to be The cowboy

reply to post by boymonkey74

A bit like our culture Music,Clothes, Art allsorts of things.

Well, Apart from the parades, and a rather small cross-section of the most flamboyant of homosexuals, I was under the impression that their style of Dress was typical for the Larger culture that they live in.

I suppose that the Music aspect would be an example, albeit a rather small one.... Lady GaGa comes to mind...

Gay Art? I guess... the theatre or whatever?

Honestly, When I first read "Art" from your post, I imagined an exhibit of "Gay Abstract Art"


I don't know.... it doesn't seem like you could classify those few examples as a totally separate Culture, IMHO.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Annee

 

If you have to ask . . . .

Yes... I do have to ask, because I don't already know.

This is typically the reason that people ask questions; in order to learn things that they were not previously aware of.

Any group of minorities forced to live on the fringe of society will create their own sub-culture. Not just gays.

It is society itself that is responsible for these sub-cultures by shunning/denying those deemed unacceptable by "acceptable main stream society".

Also - - sub-culture areas - such as West Hollywood are being infiltrated by main stream society - - - as the stigma of going into those areas is lifted - - as it becomes accepted by society. Areas that were once safe-havens are now in danger of losing the security they once felt.

ARTICLES: get more insightful views from reading the comments to each individual article.

www.advocate.com...

purpleroofs.com...

www.oasisjournals.com...

instinctmagazine.com...

reply to post by Annee

Any group of minorities forced to live on the fringe of society will create their own sub-culture. Not just gays.

Yes, I am aware of this....

It is society itself that is responsible for these sub-cultures by shunning/denying those deemed unacceptable by "acceptable main stream society".

This is rather too declarative a statement to be true... certainly in some instances it can be, but it is not ALWAYS the case.

Also - - sub-culture areas - such as West Hollywood are being infiltrated by main stream society - - - as the stigma of going into those areas is lifted - - as it becomes accepted by society. Areas that were once safe-havens are now in danger of losing the security they once felt.

In what way were these Areas considered "Gay Cultured" or whatever?

What was the Difference between them and other places (Not Including all of the gay people living there, of course)

ARTICLES: get more insightful views from reading the comments to each individual article.

Well, yes... thank you for the links; but I read them, and the comments, and they don't really espouse on what gay culture IS.... so....

Yeah...

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


I am not gay. I have followed this subject for 20+ years.

I can only provide learned information/knowledge - - - up to the bedroom door.

If you want more details on gay culture - - you are capable of researching it.

I personally have no interest in the details.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Some of the older guys told me about the real Hatred they have suffered in their live's due to homophobia and to see that they had the spirit and courage to say "Iam what Iam" inspire's me to this day.

You know, this quote reminded me of a great song sung by a very famous (In the UK mainly) homosexual man. I live by these words from this song.
www.youtube.com...
I feel everyone needs to be able to accept people for being who they are.

Originally posted by Believer101
www.youtube.com...
I feel everyone needs to be able to accept people for being who they are.

Here's Captain Jack all dolled up

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Believer101
www.youtube.com...
I feel everyone needs to be able to accept people for being who they are.

Here's Captain Jack all dolled up

Now THAT is awesome. Bahaha, never thought I'd see him like that.

Well, yes... thank you for the links; but I read them, and the comments, and they don't really espouse on what gay culture IS.... so....

Yeah...

Clearly you are being willfully obtuse. I would ask you to define the terms in which you expect to learn about gay culture by telling us what defines any culture.

I'd also like to point out since you seem to be an anime fan that anime is absolutely steeped in references to gay culture. The character Naruto/Naruka is in itself an allegory for a transgendered person. So it would seem to be your own ignorance willful or otherwise which isn't allowing you to understand this simple concept.

so....

reply to post by FEDec

Clearly you are being willfully obtuse.

Would you care to elaborate on your assertion? or are we supposed to take what you say as Truth without even the cursory kindness of you spelling out exactly what it is that you mean?

I would ask you to define the terms in which you expect to learn about gay culture by telling us what defines any culture.

Culture: The customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group

I'd also like to point out since you seem to be an anime fan that anime is absolutely steeped in references to gay culture. The character Naruto/Naruka is in itself an allegory for a transgendered person.

Oh, I would LOVE to hear your explanation for this one... No, please.. Do go on!

So it would seem to be your own ignorance willful or otherwise which isn't allowing you to understand this simple concept.

What simple concept are you presuming that I am being wilfully ignorant about?

And you can't just be wilfully ignorant yourself, and claim that I am being wilfully ignorant about what "Gay Culture" is.... because I am *ASKING* what it is.

So far, I have yet to have an actual explanation given in regards to this question.

BTW, nice bit of skullduggery there...

Would you care to elaborate on your assertion? or are we supposed to take what you say as Truth without even the cursory kindness of you spelling out exactly what it is that you mean?

No elaboration is necessary the above lines are proof enough. But in case you really are that thick: Putting it plainly you are purposefully being an idiot because you can no longer find a toe hold in the argument. By doing so you hope to discover a fault in the opposing side. Newb forum troll 101.

Culture: The customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group

It would seem obvious then gay culture by your own preferred definition is the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular social group in this case gay people. What is so hard to understand about that I don't know. Oh what? You want a comprehensive list of every gay cultural happening since the greeks? Or what it doesn't exist? Your arguments are woefully transparent and belie your true intentions.

But just for the sake of arguement. A few examples of gay culture: Synth-Pop, Glam Rock, Harvey Milk, Campy Movies and TV(including but not limited to: Anime, Musicals, Avant-Garde Theatre and Counter Cultural Cinema), Manzai Comedy(aka what you are seeing every time you see someone get hit by a big hammer or paper fan in anime), Modern Art, Performance Art.

Oh, I would LOVE to hear your explanation for this one... No, please.. Do go on!

What do I need to explain? Naruto for those who don't know is an anime soap opera about ninjas in full body fishnet suits. The eponymous hero Naruto can change himself into a girl and sometimes uses his power to woo other ninjas especially older men.... Now I ask you in all seriousness. What is NOT gay about that? obviously this schlub wont admit it so chime in here people. That is TOTALLY gay.

What simple concept are you presuming that I am being wilfully ignorant about?

Again your response is transparent. Gay culture, gay culture is the ONLY concept we are discussing here. This is yet another example of you pretending not to understand in lieu of making an actual point. If this is the extent of your debate skills I think you may want to practice a bit more before actually attempting to wade in.

And you can't just be wilfully ignorant yourself, and claim that I am being wilfully ignorant about what "Gay Culture" is.... because I am *ASKING* what it is.

So far, I have yet to have an actual explanation given in regards to this question.

I am not convinced you understand the concept of intentional ignorance. Please explain to me what it is. I am asking you what it is.

So....

reply to post by lambs to lions

You are absolutely right. It is more than a sexual preference...its a mental disorder. We don't just go with it when talking about other disorders such as manic depression, or social anxiety disorder. There is something wrong with homosexuals. I know, I know...I'm an ignorant hateful bigot. Actually, not the case. I don't hate anyone, but I'm comfortable enough with myself to be honest with myself also, and I believe it is a major malfunction.

You were right the first time. Categorising someone's sexual preference as a mental disorder is the height of ignorance and pointing that out shouldn't be the responsibility of anonymous internet strangers. Sexuality is not a pathological condition unless it interferes with your ability to lead a normal, happy life; the way I see it, the only impediment that exists for the LGBT community is the small-mindedness of those who see their pursuit of contented and fulfilled lives as an affront to their own spurious notions of 'normality'.

SPOILER ALERT: Everyone feels normal; no-one actually is.

I don't really mean to come off as aggressively as I probably sound, because you seem like an otherwise curious and intelligent guy. I believe you when you say you don't hate anyone, but I'm sure you'll understand that for those you're calling mentally damaged - among them, some of my closest friends - any distinction is pretty meaningless.

They just feel normal, like you.

reply to post by FEDec

No elaboration is necessary the above lines are proof enough.

Then perhaps you'd care to explain how THIS:

Clearly you are being willfully obtuse. I would ask you to define the terms in which you expect to learn about gay culture by telling us what defines any culture.

I'd also like to point out since you seem to be an anime fan that anime is absolutely steeped in references to gay culture. The character Naruto/Naruka is in itself an allegory for a transgendered person. So it would seem to be your own ignorance willful or otherwise which isn't allowing you to understand this simple concept.

Explains or Defines Gay Culture?

No, please, Go ahead...

But in case you really are that thick: Putting it plainly you are purposefully being an idiot because you can no longer find a toe hold in the argument.

Oh, this is rich.... You think this is an argument?

Really?

You are just too funny.

Ok, fine, What were we disagreeing on?

No, go ahead.... I'll wait....

By doing so you hope to discover a fault in the opposing side. Newb forum troll 101.

Are you feeling ok? You don't seem to be making any sense...

It would seem obvious then gay culture by your own preferred definition is the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular social group in this case gay people.

OK?

What is so hard to understand about that I don't know.

your belief that I lack understanding is in itself, quite transparent.

Oh what? You want a comprehensive list of every gay cultural happening since the greeks?

Hey, if you happen to HAVE that much information, then by all means.... please...

Or what it doesn't exist?

Well now you are just being silly...

Your arguments are woefully transparent and belie your true intentions.

I lack Knowledge of what "Gay Culture" is.... and was asking for examples..... That you think this is an "Argument" actually belies YOUR true intentions....

You are a Homosexual Culture Questioner Hater..... You are scared of people who ask questions about homosexual culture!!!!

But just for the sake of arguement.

It's not an argument... I can't figure out where you got that notion stuck in your head....

A few examples of gay culture: Synth-Pop,

What, the whole genera of music? Really?

Glam Rock

Do most homosexuals listen to glam rock bands?

Because The first ones weren't Homosexual...

Harvey Milk

A Gay politician, is your *CULTURE*?

I don't think you know how this works....

Campy Movies and TV

(including but not limited to: Anime

What.... ALL anime?

Musicals

What, ALL musicals?

Avant-Garde Theatre

Hmmm, I can't find a mention of homosexual culture OR gay culture in the Wiki articles about it..... Odd....

and Counter Cultural Cinema

What? The only counter-culture that I know of, was the Counter Culture of the 60's, the Peace and love movement... is that what you are talking about? Or did you mean something else?

Are you talking about this?

Manzai Comedy(aka what you are seeing every time you see someone get hit by a big hammer or paper fan in anime)

Where are you getting your information from?

Modern Art, Performance Art.

What? ALL modern and performance art is Homosexual?

Really?



No, I think you are just making stuff up now...

Unless you have a REASON for saying these things... like.... proof that they originated in homosexual culture?

And since you are spewing such vitriol at me for asking a simple question, and then berating me with broad lists of things without the slightest proof... I'm going to assume that you have Solid Documented evidence to prove your position, and I will now merely wait for you to present it.

What do I need to explain? Naruto for those who don't know is an anime soap opera about ninjas in full body fishnet suits. The eponymous hero Naruto can change himself into a girl and sometimes uses his power to woo other ninjas especially older men.... Now I ask you in all seriousness. What is NOT gay about that? obviously this schlub wont admit it so chime in here people. That is TOTALLY gay.

So.... I guess it is then your assertion that All Homosexual people have Extremely powerful, and Extremely EVIL Demons inside them... right?



Is that what you are saying? That Homosexuals are Demon Filled?

I mean, if that's the direction you want this conversation going, then by all means....

reply to post by FEDec

Again your response is transparent. Gay culture, gay culture is the ONLY concept we are discussing here.

Then why is My asking about what gay culture *IS*, transparent?

I mean, I would hope that my question is transparent enough for you to understand it.... but you seem to be getting angry for absolutely no reason.... and I'm kind of curious as to why....

This is yet another example of you pretending not to understand in lieu of making an actual point.

So, you are Claiming that I actually Understand what Gay Culture is... and am just playing ignorant... why?

To make a point?

If this is the extent of your debate skills I think you may want to practice a bit more before actually attempting to wade in.

You do realize that we are not debating... right?

I'm asking a question, and you are Arguing against me as if I had made some sort of decleration that you do not approve of....

Honestly... it's baffling.

I am not convinced you understand the concept of intentional ignorance. Please explain to me what it is. I am asking you what it is.

I don't know, and I Refuse to learn.

Oh, this is rich.... You think this is an argument? Really? You are just too funny. Ok, fine, What were we disagreeing on? No, go ahead.... I'll wait....

We weren't disagreeing on anything. I implied that you were attempting to derail this thread for lack of an ability to argue. My whole point was that you are unable to argue.

your belief that I lack understanding is in itself, quite transparent.

Have you read a word I have written? I've been saying you know exactly what you are talking about but are feigning ignorance due to your inability to contribute to the disscussion. Your replies which consist of "ok?" would seem to confirm this.

What, the whole genera of music? Really?

That's genre by the way. Even when adopted by another group the culture is still a facet of the original group. Jazz or Blues is black culture, no amount of Eric Claptons can change this. There is nothing wrong with a Chinese musician playing blues so long as they recognize where it came from.

Do most homosexuals listen to glam rock bands? Because The first ones weren't Homosexual...

You realize that David Bowie had a well known relationship with Iggy Pop and that Queen from it's name to it's videos to it's singer was one of the gayest bands of ALL TIME.

A Gay politician, is your *CULTURE*? I don't think you know how this works....

Culture: The customs, arts, social institutions, Culture: The customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group of a particular nation, people, or other social group

Also I am not gay so it isn't my culture. I do however take quite an interest in it. It seems that you think that culture is something that is glued to a particular group and cannot be adopted by anyone outside of that group.

What.... ALL anime?

Anime is the campiest thing since 50's horror movies. It would be the world's greatest shock if there were no gay people behind it.

What, ALL musicals?

Ever take a look at who was behind west side story?

Jerome Robbins: Gay
en.wikipedia.org...

Arthur Laurents: Gay
en.wikipedia.org...

Ernest Lehman: Straight
en.wikipedia.org...

Two out of three ain't bad.

Joel Schumacher who directed phantom is also gay.

Hmmm, I can't find a mention of homosexual culture OR gay culture in the Wiki articles about it..... Odd....

Really? Because John Waters, Gus Van Sant and Andy Warhol are some of of the greatest American Avant-Garde directors and also very gay. Eisenstein, Cocteau and Fassbinder are also names which come to mind.

What? The only counter-culture that I know of, was the Counter Culture of the 60's, the Peace and love movement... is that what you are talking about? Or did you mean something else? Are you talking about this?

Again with the willful ignorance you realize that by it's very nature there always has been and always will be a counter culture? Counter Culture is just a culture which is not accepted by the mainstream. I am actually starting to think you really are this ignorant.

Where are you getting your information from?

Manzai comedy is super gay.

So.... I guess it is then your assertion that All Homosexual people have Extremely powerful, and Extremely EVIL Demons inside them... right?

I asserted that naruto was a gay allegory. The demon by my assertion would also be an allegory. Perhaps for something inside all of us which when not admitted can turn into a boiling pit of hate.

Nice attempt at further derailment.

So, you are Claiming that I actually Understand what Gay Culture is... and am just playing ignorant... why? To make a point?

No to keep points which you don't like from being made.

You do realize that we are not debating... right?

YES. That is the point I've been trying to convey you cannot or will not debate and are therefore attempting to derail this thread.


You don't seem to understand the points that you are attempting to make and also seem to have an over reliance on wikipedia to spell everything out to you. Are you still in school? I've known Droppouts with better research skills than you.