Not gonna get my kids Immunised but should I do it for my Pets?

Originally posted by Stryc9nine

i know you mean no harm with your ignorance but do you know how vaccines are made? do you actually know what's in them? do you know what adjuvants are?

do you?

there are things about vaccines that doesn't make sense and unclear in many ways. do not just get immunized just because your doctor tells you to. anything that's completely helpful shouldn't be this sketchy.

I disagree entirely. Who better to trust then your doctor? My doctor was there when i was born and has been there my entire life. She has been open and honest about anything i ever ask her, and she is the best of the best at what she does. I would never need to second second-guess the advice she gives me, because its based on her professional and personal experiences. To me thats much more valuable. As is my personal experiences... and i've never met anyone with any gripe against vaccines (which are pretty much universal around here).

Of course there are risks to any treatment. Human beings are so diverse, and nothing is infallible. But i would rather listen to a professional and take preventative action against disease rather then submit to the fear-induced delirium that plagues the internet.

Originally posted by thebtheb
Sorry, but people DO get the thing they're vaccinated for sometimes. The flu shot PRODUCES the flu in a percentage of people every year. The literature says it's "a myth" but the facts show that it DOES happen. Not to most people - but yes, it does happen.

I'm not sure how it works in the States, but i have always been very explicitly warned that i might be symptomatic in the week following the shot. Its not a big secret.

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42

Originally posted by Stryc9nine



I disagree entirely. Who better to trust then your doctor? My doctor was there when i was born and has been there my entire life. She has been open and honest about anything i ever ask her, and she is the best of the best at what she does. I would never need to second second-guess the advice she gives me, because its based on her professional and personal experiences. To me thats much more valuable. As is my personal experiences... and i've never met anyone with any gripe against vaccines (which are pretty much universal around here).

Doctors mean very well. They really do. But never forget that they are limited by their own profession. Doctors are good people who want to help, but many, if not most, adhere to their profession without themselves questioning it. There ARE doctors who have admitted that while recommending the flu shot to people, say that they would never have it themselves. To me, that speaks volumes.

Take a dermatologist - someone goes with a rash, and gets a cream for it. No other questions are asked. No questions about diet, etc., etc. A cream with cortizone is prescribed. The amount of skin problems that can be solved with nutrition and diet is HUGE. But instead, cortizone is applied, which serves only to disable the immune cells in that region of the skin so they don't react to a problem that is STILL THERE.

The amount of people who have gone their own route and experienced the solving of health issues that their doctors never could is huge!

I'm not saying don't trust your doctor, but don't assume that they know everything - they don't!

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


Next time you see your doctor, without mentioning anything, why don't you ask her if she knows how vaccines are made and why they give out Hep B vaccine to little babies when there is much higher chance of them getting Hep B from the vaccine than without it.

I bet you didn't know aborted fetuses are used to make some of the vaccines...

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by jameshawkings

Originally posted by Stryc9nine

Originally posted by ILikeStars
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

I'm not sure I understand why some people would not immunize their children against some things if an available option. I think it is fear of the unknown, to tell you the truth. As a military serviceman I had many more immunization shots than most people I know, to include 17 anthrax immunization shots between 1998 and 2009.

I'd pleed with you to be as informed about it as you can be prior to making the choice.

Small pox immunization could be a good thing. Small pox could be a lethal thing for a young adult.

As for pets, take care of them, too. Ask questions, be informed. I'm not an expert, so feel free to disregard my advice if you think it is best.

Have a great week,
ILikeStars

i know you mean no harm with your ignorance but do you know how vaccines are made? do you actually know what's in them? do you know what adjuvants are? have you heard of gulf war syndrome?

also if hepatitis b is transmitted through sex or blood transfusion, why are infants getting immunized with this vaccine? would you immunize your infant with an HIV vaccine if there was one?

there are things about vaccines that doesn't make sense and unclear in many ways. do not just get immunized just because your doctor tells you to. anything that's completely helpful shouldn't be this sketchy.

Well said! This is great to see that more and more people are waking up from the myth of vaccines, we'd all been in a trance-like state believing the Official Story, but now we're starting to research and use our common sense. This is why TPTB will be taking the Internet down and putting it back up in another form, there will be laws about discussing these issues.

From my many years of research, eventually I discovered that we're being injected with disease, so as the Pharms can make a lot of extra money out of us

edit on 23-11-2011 by jameshawkings because: (no reason given)

Hahaha... wow...

You are getting injected with either a dead strain or weak strain of the disease.. NOT the disease itself. These weak/dead strains will cause your body to act producing anti-body like it just got the real disease(sensing these strain's presence) BUT you don't actually get sick, because the strains are weak/dead, some people might experience slight fever, but that's your body increasing temperature against the supposed "invasion" in order to increase the effectiveness of the immune system and slow down foreign cells. Once your body produces anti-body for the weak/dead strain, you body "memorizes them" and when you actually get attacked by the actual full blown virus/bacteria/disease you body is ready for it.

I do hope doctors give option to the people against basic Vaccines(including the DPPT) and put a red tag on their forhead.

edit on 11/23/2011 by luciddream because: DTTP > DPPT (diphtheria, tetanus, Polio and pertussis)

Theoretically this is what is taught in schools but you really don't think it's that simple do you? You sound like some high school kid regurgitating what your teacher told during a biology class. In actuality, it's not that simple...

Don't do it. I have six dogs and one cat. They have all had some vaccines but none in the last six or seven years. One of my dogs was litter mate to one that a friend took. He just had to put his down because of cancer. He got the annual shots faithfully. Mine has no sign of cancer. He is 14.

I had two cats previously. One had feline leukemia. The other was fine. The vet said I really should have the "fine" cat vaccinated against the leukemeia so I did. She died from it within in six months. Her initial test before vaccination was negative. I fully believe that the shot gave her the disease. She died in my lap and I was so guilty for having given her the disease. It was extremely hard for me to know that I had hurt her.

I have a link for a holistic vet online if you are interested. Send me a U2U and I will send you the link. Yes he does sell products(you don't have to buy) because he lost is vet license in Canada for treating animals with holistic medicine rather than standard commercial treatments.

I suggest, for pets, yes. Not just because I work in the Veterinary field. I have seen the affects of family/friends and even hear of people who on the net expressed what happened when the animal falls ill, into a situation that could have been prevented by a vaccine.

Keep in mind vaccinations are not all 100 percent foolproof. However, you're pet dog for example; you as well as him/her would fair better on less stress and of course prevention of let's say rabies or parvo, in this case feline aids(FIV) in cats.

Other factors come to mind depending on where you live; local laws, such as if you dog goes out into public; I've seen cops ask for licensing/rabies vaccine proof, as well as dog parks asking for it. Even animals at home are bound to some city laws.

Can't say I trust all vaccines, but better safe than sorry. Parvo can mean certain death but surely a $2,000 plus bill to save your puppy. I'll stick with the combo shots/or separate shot. Separate vaccinations, on need basis(es. area has a lot of Leptospirosis )can be given if worried about using a combo mixture.

Indoor only animals can be affected by disease by fomite(shoes, hands, used pet product...visiting pets).
Felines overall, are less vaccinated than canines, to say less owners have them vaccinated compared to dogs. So, if you live in an area that has a lot of cats, have a lot of cats, etc, due to higher incidents of disease you're more safe using vaccinations.

reply to post by blackrain17


I already said that the flu vaccine is up for discussion, and i probably wouldn't advise taking it either. My doctor is indifferent.

Im more concerned about Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), polio, Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate, pneumococcal conjugate, meningococcal conjugate, hepatitis B and A, varicella for infants.

why don't you ask her if she knows how vaccines are made and why they give out Hep B vaccine to little babies when there is much higher chance of them getting Hep B from the vaccine than without it.

I would need to see a source before believing an outrageous claim like that. With such a reportedly endemic problem i cant imagine how i might have been abel to avoid it my entire life. If that were true, then of me, my brother, and my sister, two of us would (statistically speaking) have hep B.

Which is funny, because i only know one person with hepatitis and they didn't get it until later in life.

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42
reply to post by blackrain17

 

I already said that the flu vaccine is up for discussion, and i probably wouldn't advise taking it either. My doctor is indifferent.

Im more concerned about Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), polio, Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate, pneumococcal conjugate, meningococcal conjugate, hepatitis B and A, varicella for infants.

why don't you ask her if she knows how vaccines are made and why they give out Hep B vaccine to little babies when there is much higher chance of them getting Hep B from the vaccine than without it.

I would need to see a source before believing an outrageous claim like that. With such a reportedly endemic problem i cant imagine how i might have been abel to avoid it my entire life. If that were true, then of me, my brother, and my sister, two of us would (statistically speaking) have hep B.

Which is funny, because i only know one person with hepatitis and they didn't get it until later in life.

edit on 23-11-2011 by ClydeFrog42 because: (no reason given)

Hepatitis B is transferred only from direct introduction into the bloodstream, via infected blood to the bloodstream, infected semen to the bloodstream, or if a nail you cut yourself on happens to have it, through that. Exactly how many babies are intravenous drug users or sexually active?

How many people are likely to get Hep B from anything? You have to take that into consideration too. If you don't inject drugs into yourself, and have protected sex, the chances of getting Hep B are low! If you're already married to someone who doesn't have it, and you don't do drugs - there's very little possibility of getting it. They don't tell you THAT in that Twinrix commercial with the dual Hep A and Hep B shots. Hep A is much easier to get, but is not permanent, does no permanent damage is often so mild that people don't know they have it before it's gone after 3 days.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


I really don't want to hijack this thread but I used to think like you. When you have time, watch this video and make your own conclusions...

Originally posted by dreamingawake
I suggest, for pets, yes. Not just because I work in the Veterinary field. I have seen the affects of family/friends and even hear of people who on the net expressed what happened when the animal falls ill, into a situation that could have been prevented by a vaccine.

Keep in mind vaccinations are not all 100 percent foolproof. However, you're pet dog for example; you as well as him/her would fair better on less stress and of course prevention of let's say rabies or parvo, in this case feline aids(FIV) in cats.

Other factors come to mind depending on where you live; local laws, such as if you dog goes out into public; I've seen cops ask for licensing/rabies vaccine proof, as well as dog parks asking for it. Even animals at home are bound to some city laws.

Can't say I trust all vaccines, but better safe than sorry. Parvo can mean certain death but surely a $2,000 plus bill to save your puppy. I'll stick with the combo shots/or separate shot. Separate vaccinations, on need basis(es. area has a lot of Leptospirosis )can be given if worried about using a combo mixture.

Indoor only animals can be affected by disease by fomite(shoes, hands, used pet product...visiting pets).
Felines overall, are less vaccinated than canines, to say less owners have them vaccinated compared to dogs. So, if you live in an area that has a lot of cats, have a lot of cats, etc, due to higher incidents of disease you're more safe using vaccinations.

You might be right but would you agree, since animals can't talk, there are no controversies? I would think these vaccines are less regulated than human vaccines, no?

reply to post by blackrain17

I agree and there's limited regulations.


Here's article info on close to what I've studied on/found in the past:

There are several reasons for this. First and foremost is the fact that animal vaccinations are not subjected to the same rigorous pre-market testing that is required for the release of a human vaccine. Otherwise stated, animal vaccines can be released without large, controlled challenge studies that are necessary prior to the release of human vaccines. Animal vaccines are controlled by the US Department of Agriculture, which merely requires that vaccines be shown to be safe and pure, and have a “reasonable expectation” of efficacy prior to their release; however, the clinical need (relevancy) or usefulness (applicability) of a particular vaccine may not necessarily be assured by the licensing process.

Source

If your "pet" is an outside living animal, well then I'd say maybe,.
But from the mouth of a personal friend that works in a vet clinic,.
the shots are a money maker,. not a need.
I have personally seen the personality of pets change after getting shots.

Originally posted by blackrain17
reply to post by ClydeFrog42

 

I really don't want to hijack this thread but I used to think like you. When you have time, watch this video and make your own conclusions...

This is one of the most informative videos on vaccination I have ever seen. Done by a physician, I fail to see how anyone who watched this video wouldn't at least question vaccinations. As per my point in another post - this woman several times herself relates that SHE HERSELF had accepted all kinds of "facts" as givens, until she started researching them. This is a must see video for anyone on either side of the argument.

reply to post by thebtheb


Maybe there arent a ton of babies shooting up, but im sure there are good reasons for the vaccine otherwise nobody would recommend it. Are you going to not vaccinate yourself, just because your afraid of some baseless rhetoric read on the internet?

en.wikipedia.org...

The fear-induced delirium on these boards is ridiculous. Automatically being afraid of anything recommended by our governing institutions seems sort of paranoid.

Ill believe all this stuff when i see it, or an informed person convinces me adequately. So far, neither of those conditions have come to pass, and i have been alive for long enough that it should have if they were true.

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42
reply to post by thebtheb
[mor

edit on 23-11-2011 by Lil Drummerboy because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42
reply to post by thebtheb

 

Maybe there arent a ton of babies shooting up, but im sure there are good reasons for the vaccine otherwise nobody i see it,

Really?
well good luck to you then
Believe every thing your doctor tells you and dont bother doing any research yourself

Originally posted by ClydeFrog42
reply to post by thebtheb

 

Maybe there arent a ton of babies shooting up, but im sure there are good reasons for the vaccine otherwise nobody would recommend it. Are you going to not vaccinate yourself, just because your afraid of some baseless rhetoric read on the internet?

en.wikipedia.org...

The fear-induced delirium on these boards is ridiculous. Automatically being afraid of anything recommended by our governing institutions seems sort of paranoid.

Ill believe all this stuff when i see it, or an informed person convinces me adequately. So far, neither of those conditions have come to pass, and i have been alive for long enough that it should have if they were true.

Again - watch the video above - the three hour one. Watch the ENTIRE 3 hours and then come back to argue with me. This doctor presents documented information that ANYONE can access, thus it is FAR from rhetoric. If you want an informed person to convince you adequately, again - watch the video. This doctor relates how she herself, as a doctor, who used to give vaccines thought all the same things you do, but eventually has completely changed her mind. I'd say a real doctor is someone's opinion to consider. Your statement of "there must be a reason to have this vaccine, otherwise, no one would recommend it" MAKES logical sense. But unfortunately, it just isn't true. In fact, in the video above, this doctor talks about the Hep B vaccine and why babies get it. Go see for yourself how needless this vaccine is. Again, the information is accessible to everyone, but no one seeks it out.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Thanks for the well thought out reply, I had almost finished writing a reply yesterday when I accidently pushed back on my browser LOL. You obviously put some effort into your post so it deserves a reply

The only vaccinatable disease that is "pretty much dead" is smallpox, and it's not on the usual vaccination schedules. Measles and pertussis are coming back because scam artists convince people not to vaccinate for them.

What would someone have to gain by convincing people NOT to take vaccines?? It seems to me it would be the the other way around with scam artists convincing you to TAKE the vaccines. As to diseases being dead maybe that was the wrong word but they are less prevelant than they were in past and I think a big part of that is hygiene and nutrition.

Polio and Hib still infect people around the world, and are only an airplane away. Hep A and B never went away. The world is still crawling with tetanus and diphtheria bacteria. I could go on

Gotta be honest I hadnt even hear of a few of the diseases you mention which is somewhat telling. Did a quick Google search and once again it seems that good health and uncramped living seems to combat most of these things.

It's possible that a seat belt won't save my life in a car accident, but I'm going to wear one anyway. You know why? Because it probably will. Do you understand the difference between something that is probable and something that is possible but not probable? When confronted with two mutually exclusive outcomes, one of which is probable while the other is possible but not probable, which do you prepare for?

True but is it possible or has anyone ever said that a seatbelt can make you infertile or a vegetable? no. What your talking about is common sense, there is no possible negative side effect to wearing a seatbelt however with vaccinations I have heard that there is.
So are you saying that its PROBABLE that if unvaccinated children will catch these uncommon diseases?

As a member of this site, I'm sure you've heard of Andrew Wakefield...? Did he have any problems getting his anti-MMR paper published? It was completely fictional, but Lancet published it, because at the time they thought it was science. What about that time NEJM decided to call Merck lying liars over Vioxx--was the pharmaceutical lobby able to stop that? Or the Fen-Phen studies, why didn't the pharmaceutical lobby censor those?

I hadnt heard of Andrew Wakefield till this thread and have no idea what any of that other stuff is. You seem quite to know quite a bit on this topic, Im curious where you get your info, I hope its not from these same journals that your implying dont do their due diligence prior to publishing.
It also seems your saying that the pharmaceutical lobby is almost powerless, my understanding was that in the US it was one of the most cashed up and influential??

Anecdotes are not data, even if they are anecdotes posted on ATS. Unfortunately, the human brain is wired to prefer anecdotes--we like stories, especially emotional stories with some sense of danger and a clear villain. You can easily find as many pro-vaccination stories as anti-vaccination stories, if you know where to look; but you will probably call them all propaganda, disinfo, or shills

True, anecdotes arent necessarily reliable data but I was more after peoples personal experiences as opposed to anecdotes. The general consensus apart from one post in which an animal could POSSIBLY have been saved is that vaccinations for pets, especially indoor ones is not necessary.
As for the shills bit, LOL do I really come across that paranoid? I dont think everyone and everything is out to get me but when it comes to big faceless heartless corporations like drug companies I do always wonder. These businesses arent run by an indivual with a conscience, they are run by lots of people in many departments who all have bosses to answer to and at the end of the day shareholders to make sure are happy and making profit.
Can you honestly say you think that they have our best interests at heart or that there arent a heap of unnecessary or even harmful drugs being pushed on people?

I appreciate your comments dude, thanks

reply to post by nake13


Cats are explorers by nature I think, or at least like to have a territory around them they can patrol. Ive always had a big backyard back in OZ for my pets to play in but in Malaysia I live in a 4th floor apartment so its not really possible to let them out. Its a big place and they have a large balcony to get some sun on so I dont feel to bad but it would be better if they could roam around.
If they were going to be out I would definately get them vaccinated as there are quite a few strays around here.

Cheers

Originally posted by ringlejames
OP. Your thread title dumbfounds me. You are not going to get your kids immunized but what about your pets. lol No disrespect intended. But your pretty much either saying, "hey I'm not going to give my kids lymphoma, but my dogs and cats hey who cares. Or your saying, "hey I'm not going get my kids immunized, if they die they die, but my dogs and cats, I cant afford to lose them".

No offense but I have posted some pretty crazy # when I am stoned, but yours takes the cake.

He is manic in his depressive state.

LOL was 100% straight when I posted

The reason for the post is Ive heard horror stories about human vaccination but none about pet ones so wanted to see what people thought.
So what I was actually saying was "Ive heard theres a chance vaccines can mess my kids up, Is this also true for pets?"

Hope this clears it up