What do Freemasons want? Or the Question is: What are Freemasons actually waiting for?

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
If you just came out and told me what God you're referring to...

Odd question. How many omnipotent Creators are there?

There is only one God. God the Creator of the Universe. I happen to call God, God because I speak English. If we were speaking Latin it would be Deus. Follow?

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
The word God is from the Bible.

"Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one."
~Torah, 1312 BC

Isn't the "Torah" the Law?
The Old Testament?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

There is only one God. God the Creator of the Universe. I happen to call God, God because I speak English. If we were speaking Latin it would be Deus. Follow?

I speak Spanish and Catalan apart from English, so yes I follow.
How do you know there is only one God?
You mean to say you believe that there is only one God?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
If you just came out and told me what God you're referring to...

Odd question. How many omnipotent Creators are there?

Well, you can't blame me for thinking Dr Cosma was polytheistic a few posts back.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma

Isn't the "Torah" the Law?
The Old Testament?

Yes, but it usually refers to Judaism, and not Christianity.

reply to post by Saurus

Yes, but it usually refers to Judaism, and not Christianity.

Yes, but it's the Bible.

Well, you can't blame me for thinking Dr Cosma was polytheistic a few posts back.

You know what they say about assumptions.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
You mean to say you believe that there is only one God?

YES!!!

Christianity:
"Hear, oh Israel, the lord thy God is one." (Old testament)
"...indeed God is one" (New testament)

Judaism:
"Hear, oh Israel, the Lord thy God is one." (Torah)

Islam:
There is only one God, and Muhammed is his prophet. (Qu'ran)

Hindu:
"There is only one God, not a second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit." (Brahma Sutra)

Some religions like Hindu and Christianity have some/many different manifestations of the one God, but still, there is only one. No more, no less.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
You mean to say you believe that there is only one God?

Yes.

And no Satan/Bogeyman.

reply to post by Saurus


Ok then so if you're quoting the Bible, old and new, then why is the Devil not real?
Isn't that cherry picking or am I dreaming here?

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
reply to post by Saurus

 

Ok then so if you're quoting the Bible, old and new, then why is the Devil not real?
Isn't that cherry picking or am I dreaming here?

Because I believe that God sent many Prophets/Holy Books to mankind to teach him morals and values. The Almighty told each culture what they needed to hear in a way that would make them live in a way that brings happiness and harmony on earth.

Some people throughout the ages needed encouragement to learn what they needed to learn. Others needed fear.

Take out the law and punishments, which are different in each book, and you're left with the same message in all of them. I believe in the message that is common to all, and see the variances in the Holy Books as allegories or stories that are there to teach us what we need to learn.

reply to post by Saurus

and see the variances in the Holy Books as allegories or stories that are there to teach us what we need to learn.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma

So if you don't believe in the literal existence of the Devil then why do you believe in the literal existence of God?

Because I am a Hermetic Gnostic.

Didn't you have to believe in a God to be a mason?

Yes.

What if a mason believes in the Devil as his God?

The only people who believe in the existence of the devil are literalist Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and none of those people believe the devil is God.

Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze

1) Know the secrets of the Ancients and pass it down by word of mouth.

Its a crying shame but the higher you go on the masonic latter, the more you learn that the secret everyone claims we have is LOST! You can imagine how my disappointment grew with every step of the way.

On a lighter note, I expect to be channelling Hiram Abiff sooon to see if I can get the old man to spill the beans. I`ll post here exclusively if that happens. If he wasnt beat up too badly by those cowardly ruffians, I should have the secret of all ages after lunch.

reply to post by Saurus


very well put.

Dr. Cosma, one of the key ideas of masonry is that nobody forces any religious beliefs on anyone else. You are asked once who you put your trust in. Once that is answered, your religion is your business. Some masons believe in God, and the devil, some don't believe in the devil. I happen to think the references to "the devil" are just referring to evil in the literal sense. Evil exists and is a choice that can be made by anyone. I think your heart guides you through life and God is always in your heart if you let him in. (or acknowledge he's there)
But those are only my beliefs. As I said, every mason gets to have his own thoughts.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
So if you don't believe in the literal existence of the Devil then why do you believe in the literal existence of God?

The God I believe in is all powerful.

If God is all-powerful, then NOTHING that happens does so against his will.

If nothing happens that is not part of God's plan, then why does there need to be a devil acting as a scapegoat? Can't we just believe that everything that happens, both good and bad, are ultimately part of God's omnipotent, omniscient design? Perhaps unfathomable to us mere mortals, but who are we to question His master plan?

Light is the equilibrium of Shadow and Lucidity.

Movement is the equilibrium of Inertia and Activity.

Authority is the equilibrium of Liberty and Power.

Wisdom is equilibrium in the Thoughts, which are the scintillations and rays of the Intellect.

Virtue is equilibrium in the Affections: Beauty is harmonious proportion in Forms.

The beautiful lives are the accurate ones, and the magnificences of Nature are an algebra of graces and splendors.

Everything just is beautiful; everything beautiful ought to be just.

There is, in fact, no Nothing, no void Emptiness, in the Universe. From the upper or outer surface of our atmosphere to that of the Sun, and to those of the Planets and remote Stars, in different directions, Science has for hundreds of centuries imagined that there was simple, void, empty Space. Comparing finite knowledge with the Infinite, the Philosophers know little more than the apes! In all that "void" space are the Infinite Forces of God, acting in an infinite variety of directions, back and forth, and never for an instant inactive. In all of it, active through the whole of its Infinity, is the Light that is the Visible Manifestation of God. The earth and every other planet and sphere that is not a Centre of Light, carries its cone of shadow with it as it flies and flashes round in its orbit; but the darkness has no home in the Universe. To illuminate the sphere on one side, is to project a cone of darkness on the other; and Error also is the Shadow of the Truth with which God illuminates the Soul.

that Equilibrium between Good and Evil, and Light and Darkness in the world, which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good: by attaining to the knowledge of which equilibrium we can, through Faith, see that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty.

Sympathy and Antipathy, Attraction and Repulsion, each a Force of nature, are contraries, in the souls of men and in the Universe of spheres and worlds; and from the action and opposition of each against the other, result Harmony, and that movement which is the Life of the Universe and the Soul alike. They are not antagonists of each other. The force that repels a Planet from the Sun is no more an evil force, than that which attracts the Planet toward the central Luminary; for each is created and exerted by the Deity, and the result is the harmonious movement of the obedient Planets in their elliptic orbits, and the mathematical accuracy and unvarying regularity of their movements.

—Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma

reply to post by Avatar777

Bring on the bourbon!!

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

Lucifer isn't the god of Masonry.

reply to post by Dr Cosma

Not believing in Satan doesn't mean he doesn't believe in God.

the biblical story of Judice is seen by some history folk as a good example of some forceing the "kingdom of God" by turning in the Messiah = to be silenced --- freemasons the ones who are up in ranks are waiting looking for and forcing the return/for christ to reveal him self - they see christ as light and God as light and man as Gomar Oz Dabur = Man mad in to GOD = beauty wisdom and strength - therefor, Lucifer is light lucifer is the return of son of man and son of angel = nELFelim

Lucifer is not Satan
Satan is the Principalitys of this world = darkness
Lucifer is the light of the world

Those who follow Satan are in darkness but think they are in Gods light
They no no they God and worship in vane = tricked into darkness by the pope net
Those who are of Christ = Lucifer are in the light and darkness - but told that is dakness to be natures nature

Freemason duty is to find The christ . adore him, enrich him, entertian him, corrupt him, bribe him and in the end kill him as the reason/scape goat for all the disasters and mans new suffering since he now is awakening to true reality = they will blame it on Chirst Lucife the Buddhachrist

Man was naked oncer and coverd him self with ego
when the light comes on he will return to that stae of true nakedness and take of his cosmestic fig leaves

reply to post by JoshNorton

who are we to question His master plan?

How do you know he has a master plan?
And if you do know, could you share it here with the rest of us mere plebs?

reply to post by Dr Cosma


yes, on Tuesday mornings we all have our Weekly status meeting with God and some of the "higher up" masons. He usually gives us a pep talk and then goes into this weeks "Grand Plan".
I will tell him you said hi if you like.


(freemasonry knows as much about what God wants as you do.) We all just hope we are on the right track.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
reply to post by Saurus

 

Because I believe that God sent many Prophets/Holy Books to mankind to teach him morals and values. The Almighty told each culture what they needed to hear in a way that would make them live in a way that brings happiness and harmony on earth.

Some people throughout the ages needed encouragement to learn what they needed to learn. Others needed fear.

edit on 17/11/2011 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Then I guess he's not that all powerful after all. Because all these prophets/holy books brought more violence, suffering and wars rather than happiness and harmony. Also it appears that he has abandoned us. He hasn't sent any new prophets, holy books for many, many years. It would be nice to hear from him again. Life has changed and we don't think in the same way as we did thousands of years ago. It would be logical to teach us about morals and values in a new way. Yet there is no response. So maybe he wasn't the one who sent prophets and holy books. Maybe there is nothing divine about prophets and holy books. But I'm not saying that there is no God. In fact I would be the last one to say that.

reply to post by Avatar777


then again, maybe he is the guy you just passed on the street, or the lady in the car in front of you. Faith is what keeps the believers faithful and lack of it is what makes the non-believers what they are. You are free to be whichever one you want to be. that is the beauty of the world that God created. Choice rather than oppression.