The Smart Dust Project. The Size Of a Grain of Sand. Contain Sensors, Computational Ability, Bi-Dire

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

And who told you that they can only communicate by radio-waves? So are you once again an expert of fact or fiction and guesswork thats cloaked in self proclaimed knowlege and pretend authority?

Radio waves, lasers, same difference. For something to communicate a certain distance takes a certain amount of power, regardless of the size of the object. So something the size of a grain of sand will have a lot of trouble getting the power to transmit anything any significant distance. The example you linked has a range of 20 meters.

I claim no authority. Feel free to explain why you disagree.

reply to post by Uncinus


Sure I will explain. The thread is up and running as I post this.Here you go.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And you were saying????

Oh, a story from William Thomas! That changes everything!

I was saying the smart dust cannot communicate over long ranges.

reply to post by Uncinus


Prove it. Show me a link..

reply to post by Uncinus


If they're suggesting only one smart dust particle per acre, wouldn't that suggest that they are being read, ie. by gps and satellite pinpoint means? It seems likely they are measuring devices, with a certain amount of power which they draw from their intended environment. Here's another possible that spells out opportunities :

Nanogenerators Grow Powerful Enough to Drive Conventional Electronics

While even the current nanogenerator output remains below the level required for such devices as iPods or cardiac pacemakers, Wang believes those levels will be reached within three to five years. The current nanogenerator, he notes, is nearly 100 times more powerful than what his group had developed just a year ago.

www.nano.gatech.edu...

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Prove it. Show me a link..

This is about state of the art, even in theoretical transmitters:

www.cmoset.com...

Range 10 meters. And still it's about 1cm long.

Of course there might be some magic technology out there. But I strongly suspect that the laws of physics will come into play as things get down to the size of a grain of sand. Even RFID chips with an incredibly powerful external power source only work over a few feet. If the mote had to generate its own power, it would be lost. Consider the maximum known power densities of any kind of battery or solar cell, even laser powered.

None of this really stop them being used, of course. It just kind of limits the applications.

Originally posted by Northwarden
reply to post by Uncinus

 

If they're suggesting only one smart dust particle per acre, wouldn't that suggest that they are being read, ie. by gps and satellite pinpoint means? It seems likely they are measuring devices, with a certain amount of power which they draw from their intended environment. Here's another possible that spells out opportunities :

Nanogenerators Grow Powerful Enough to Drive Conventional Electronics

While even the current nanogenerator output remains below the level required for such devices as iPods or cardiac pacemakers, Wang believes those levels will be reached within three to five years. The current nanogenerator, he notes, is nearly 100 times more powerful than what his group had developed just a year ago.

www.nano.gatech.edu...

Nanogenerators look great, however they require quite a bit of mechanical energy (would you get that just laying on the ground?), and are fairly large (the "nano" is in the technology, not the size). And 300 nanoamps is not going to push a signal very far.

But when we are talking about 1 per acre there's no particular need for them to be actual dust sized, more like the pack-of-cards size:

articles.cnn.com...:TECH

Originally posted by Northwarden
reply to post by Uncinus

 

You said it yourself!

From the OP :

This device will be around the size of a grain of sand and will contain sensors, computational ability, bi-directional wireless communications, and a power supply

That's the frightpoint right there, all that tech ingested in one tiny package! What does it do, who designed it, and what happens when it lodges in our lungs? It's not pleasant to inhale stone dust which can cause sclerosis of the lungs, years later, through growing over and agitating them. But smart dust could be designed to do and measure so much more.

It depends on the method of application. I give up on hoping that we won't be surveilled by this sort of thing however; a few scans of nanotech pages is enough to show how impossible it would be to try and keep track of it under present civilian means.

...

Thanks Cherub, and good to meet you

Theres a good chance anything like mm wave capable or less dust size particles will do one of several things: If inhaled in very low concentrations (I don't know what that is...) you will notice nothing, but given the nature of our sub-microelectronics that dust could and likely would contain conductive elements or others that are carcinogenic or at least toxic. There are a lot of questions about materials that are not naturally biodegraded and broken down by the body if ingested. It would make sense (yeah...) to coat any dust particle with a common and mild antigen so the body will recognize it as foreign and you will cough, generate a small amount of mucous to help it out. But this as well as anything small enough to be inhaled is fraught with great danger. I would be sure if inhaled the material would be denatured and broken down by the body ASAP. This can be done by this material reacting to a narrow range of body tempters, not just human but other air-breathers. We better be careful here. Really careful.

It's our mess, we shouldn't let it screw up with anything else in the environment, or as we saw so many times (remember DDT?) it comes back to bite us all.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
One is nature doing it's thing, another is man made and we do not have a choice in the matter. And SAND is not even the same animal as this crap.
The fact that you can even try to justify or defend the idea of peppering citizens with nanoparticles as being safe tells a story I think.

Even if there's a 1 in a billion chance of inhaling one of these particles, that is UNACCEPTABLE, period.

edit on 8-11-2011 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)

I think for you, BOTH of the events in question are MAN MADE in your minds...the sandstorms over Phoenix and Texas and the "pepperization," of the human populace with nano - particles...where in the article does it state the intent is to pepper the populace?

reply to post by Northwarden


The accountability and transparency are incumbent upon you and you alone...you be accountable and you be transparent...for those who fall within your charge, you can ask them to perform to the same expectation...for those to whom you answer, while they could be reciprocal, there is nothing that encumbers them to do so...

The more technology out there that can communicate who I am, where I am, and what I am doing, the safer I feel...as long as I am doing the right thing of course...

reply to post by jeichelberg


I don't understand your point. What does you feeling safe have to do with the topic of the thread.? What I mean is the tech has nothing to do with how I feel. The tech is the topic . If you believe it fine. If you don't thats fine. What do you believe?

reply to post by CherubBaby


Well, feelings are important, I believe, to the topic at hand...from your opening, I quote:

...We are in for a real ride.

What was it you were trying to communicate with this sentence in your opening to this thread? The technology offers rides for a quarter? The technology is found in an amusement park? I submit neither...this was your fashion of communicating your feelings about the technology...good/bad/for/against/pro/con...pick one...

reply to post by jeichelberg