Where are the "righteous" muslims?

There has not been a Muslum leader to step up and take charge here in the US to protest against the WOT, this has me concerned and cautious.

Every country and faith has their periods of darkness. Just because one faith or another is at different stages in their development does not necessarily make them worse. Christianity (or smaller forms of) has been around for over 2000 years now, Islam has been around for approx. 1400 years as Mohammad lived around 600 A.D.

So, subtract 600 years of development in the Christian religion (since that is how much longer it has been around) and you come to the year ca. 1400 A.D. At this time Christianity was still in the late Medieval period and still yet to come would be the Inquisition, Witch Hunts, colonialism, slavery, oppression of women, the Holocaust...all of which were preformed under the guise of Christian beliefs. Christianity has really only started to slow down, with minor incidents here and there, in the past 100-50 years.

With this being said, if everything remains equal the Islamic faith has around 300-500 years, according to the math, to completely rid of a fundamentalist ideology as the base of their socio-economic structure. Now, I am not a Christian or a Muslim, so I'm trying to look at this as unbiased as is possible. It's just a fact that Islam is younger than Christianity and therefore in a different stage of development than Christians. This is not to say they are any better or worse, just different.

For a long time the Christian world was ruled by extremists and fundamentalists, and only now are they trying to become more "moderate". Therefore, maybe its only the evolution of the Islamic religion that needs to progress, and not having others tell them they must change immediately. Afterall, if one went back to 15th-17th Century Europe (where most Christians were at the time) you would see many vestiges of the fundamentalist culture there as well, and if one told them to change you would quickly be hanged, burned, or beheaded.



[edit on 2-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

No one has yet answered the original question dispite attempts to point the finger back at any other group besides Muslims. This thread isn't about the KKK, or what people in the US might do. It's just asking why we don't hear condemnation of these horrific acts carried out by those who say they are Muslim, by other Muslims. apw100 has come the closest and makes some good points, but I feel the ignorance of the Muslim population can only be used as an excuse for so long.

Right or wrong, fair or not, the reactions of the so-called "peaceful" Muslims do matter and will ultimately decide which side the rest of us think they are on.

Your right the West is to PC and the muslums are not PC at all. So what it is going to come down to is the West's Hight tech fire power vs. the muslum numbers.


The problem is the USA has been fighting the odds for a long time and make the other side pay dearly for the lost men on our side.

vetnam 57,000 USA service men lost/MIA vetnamise 2-5 million

thats 35-87 to 1 kill rato.

the little black hawk down fiastco US killed 16 Hostile forces killed 1000-5000 thats 62-312 to 1 rato

cant remember the battle but happend in the world war 2 was the most costly battle in the hole war with japan

12,000 men lost us side 120,000 killed jap's only a 10 to 1 kill ratio


the closer to present day you get the higher the ratio goes. so even if they have 1 billion followers we are talking wiping it off the face of the earth because as you said they stick up for one another. You mess with one bean you mess with the hole toco.

So in a West vs. muslums would be somthing like this


1 billion dead muslums and about 3,205,128 to 28,571,428 dead west forces. if nukes are not used the numbers would go down if the west OKed use of nukes on High muslem count countrys.


Yes this would make the hole jew thing in ww2 look like a walk in the park but when is ME vs them I pick me everytime.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

People are even obiding by a law they are totaly against as a protest against what the kooks in Iraq are doing.

Originally posted by Jazzerman
Therefore, maybe its only the evolution of the Islamic religion that needs to progress, and not having others tell them they must change immediately. Afterall, if one went back to 15th-17th Century Europe (where most Christians were at the time) you would see many vestiges of the fundamentalist culture there as well.

This is true and you make a good arguement. Where it breaks down is in the fact that Islam has never shown the ability to adapt to a different time. Other religions have and do. It's my contention that the core beliefs of Islam do not allow for it's evolution and adaptation. Rather than adapt and evolve, Islam will attack and try to do away with whatever system is putting presure on it to change. If the only alternitives are change or war, Islam will choose war. Look all over the globe and almost everywhere you find Islam expanding, you find war or the conflicts that will eventually lead to war.

Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

Originally posted by crossfire
Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

Now there's a intellectual post for ya!!

Originally posted by crossfire
Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

If the CIA only hadn't chosen the Muslims to be their lil private terrorist army against Russia hu

America destroyed the USSR trough Al-Queda and economics.
Now Al-Queda is returning the favour

Originally posted by crossfire
Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

Im sorry, but that is really uncalled for.
Have you ever read the Holy Qur'an??

Originally posted by thematrix
If the CIA only hadn't chosen the Muslims to be their lil private terrorist army against Russia hu

America destroyed the USSR trough Al-Queda and economics.
Now Al-Queda is returning the favour

Oh and dont forget thematrix if the CIA didnt train Osama Bin Laden and build the camps, give them the weapons, left their country in ruins..it wouldnt of happened either

it is not what it says in the bible that counts - it is what its adherent DO that counts.

Quite simply, if America had not allowed Muslims into the country - 9/11 would not have happened - that is indisputable - and completely "called for".

If America (and Europe) has the guts it can stop the spread of the Islamic cancer - alas neither do....

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by crossfire
Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

Im sorry, but that is really uncalled for.
Have you ever read the Holy Qur'an??

He just posted almost the same thing over on the other thread too and people can't figure out what's wrong with the world today? With this type of thinking...we don't have a chance! The sadist thing about it...they honestly don't have a clue as to why they are wrong...they honestly do not see it. They are just not capable of it.

Some of the people here really need to watch the news before commenting.

I just watched a demonstration in Paris where literally thousands of Muslims were demanding that the French captives be freed.

Originally posted by crossfire
it is not what it says in the bible that counts - it is what its adherent DO that counts.

Quite simply, if America had not allowed Muslims into the country - 9/11 would not have happened - that is indisputable - and completely "called for".

If America (and Europe) has the guts it can stop the spread of the Islamic cancer - alas neither do....

The United States is "one nation under God". Therefore the United States is using Christianity in all its endeavors, including wars. The U.S. government just got through lying to its own constituency about the threat of Iraq and now there are around 20,000+ dead Iraqis as a direct result of those lies. Not to mention nearly 1,000 U.S. soldiers who have all died in some vain struggle that did not have to be undertaken to solve the "war on terror". The U.S. has just used christianity to kill and oppress another religious group using lies. Do you condemn this or not?

Originally posted by thematrix

Originally posted by crossfire
Islam is an evil relgion - it's practices are barbaric - it's people are fiends.

American should reject all Muslims - if it had done so before 9/11 would never have happened.

Rject Islam - reject fascism - reject Muslims

If the CIA only hadn't chosen the Muslims to be their lil private terrorist army against Russia hu

America destroyed the USSR trough Al-Queda and economics.
Now Al-Queda is returning the favour

Didn't we provide arms to Iraq during the Iraq/Iran War?

Also, it is not enough for some Muslim leader to say in an almost blahzay manner that they denounce the beheading... THEY HAVE A POSITION OF RESPECT AND POWER AMONG THERE CULTURE AND JUST SAYING THAT THEY DON'T AGREE WILL NOT GET THROUGH TO THE EXTREMISTS. If it were, then why are they STILL holding the 2 french journalists..... because they either don;t mean what they say, or the exremists have not got access to the communication saying that this is not agrreable by these clerics... I believe the 2nd option not to be true, otherwise no footage would ever get released if they lacked contact outside of there faction...

Let's be fair

... and do some google.

There have been numerous condemnations of the atrocities, voiced by the islamic community including the good'ol Muqtada Al-Sadr.

Yes, WE know all of this, but the fact that you HAVE to google on it is the issue. They really should be more in our faces about the denouncing. We should be seeing such denouncements by Islamic representatives on Nightline, CNN, Talk Shows, etc. and we aren't. So, to the American public at large, who personally don't know muslims...they are perceived to be an enemy waiting for the chance to strike, instead of as fellow Americans.

Originally posted by Leveller
Some of the people here really need to watch the news before commenting.

I just watched a demonstration in Paris where literally thousands of Muslims were demanding that the French captives be freed.

Yup, like in the newsthread I posted.

They aren't only protesting in the streets, but as a protests against the captors they are obiding by the law those guys are trying to get revoked by kidnapping the 2 french journalists.

It is that all Islam is bad. It is the practice of Islam that is the danger. Even the most peaceful Muslims wish to propogate a religion that would take away all our freedoms.

There are no "bad" or "good" Muslims - they are ALL a danger to us.

When you realise that it will be too late.

Originally posted by Leveller
Some of the people here really need to watch the news before commenting.

I just watched a demonstration in Paris where literally thousands of Muslims were demanding that the French captives be freed.

You DO know of course that you are confusing people with the truth! Seriously though...when minds are shut that tightly....it's pointless...of course, I gues you need to keep arguing. I'll debate for a bit, but I have a tendency of saying #@%# it, because I won't waste my energy after a while on hopelessly closed minded people.....but them you accused of running because someone doesn't agree with you....it's a no win situation. I'd say on this subject your dealing with Dinosaurs.....