Originally posted by elliotmtl
If "we" humans collectively have not been able to agree on the mechanism by which humans "pick up" the feelings of other humans, how exactly have
we collectively agreed on the mechanism by which horses "pick up" feelings? At least we can talk with fellow humans. Horses we can only observe and
manipulate their environments. And yet we think we know more about how the "lesser" beings work. That's just because we can do experiments with
animals that would be considered unacceptable on humans. That's just because humans have a tendency to be offended when their deeply felt experiences
are explained away as physical/chemical mechanics.
You answered your question. I personally do not feel offended at all as having my deeply felt experiences explained through physical/chemical
mechanics, but I am aware some do. But yes, we do do similar experiences with humans (because you do need to kill or harm anyone to measure the
physiological changes occuring within them and register the environmental elements present at the time they happen.
Consider this, how do you know that "pheromones" are the cause, rather than an effect, of behavior with which they are correlated?
Well, I would need to know some specifics on what study and how it was done to respond. I can think of a study in which men would sit in a certain
seat in a waiting room, alone, then when he was gone, women were filmed as they went in the room to sit, and they repeatedly chose to sit in the same
chair the man had sat in.
They did not have knowledge of a man having sat there.
The experiment was repeated many times, having the chair he sat in be a different one (to rule out it's position as being the correlating force, such
as near a window, or by the door, etc.)
Similar experiments done with having women smell a teeshirt a man had worn, and ones no one had worn, and asking them to choose one they just
"liked" more, they repeatedly chose the one that had been worn by a man.
I am not sure how, in those cases, you could attribute the behavior of choosing the chair or the teeshirt, as the cause of the mans earlier
physiological state and secretions.
I am definately in support of the concept that we can provoke changes in our physiology through our thoughts though, so do not mean to say all that we
feel is only a result of subconscious interplay between exterior stimuli and automatic responses..... only that some of what we experience might very
I watched another experiment in which people had their brain exposed (they were scheduled for brain surgery already, so the researchers took advantage
of the exposure) and electrodes were placed in different parts of the brain. A small charge could set off specific behavior mechanisms. The patients
were awake and being talked to and interacted with while these electrodes were being set off from time to time.
I was fascinated to see a girl talking to a man, when all of a suddenly she laughed loudly.
The electrode attached to that part of the brain had been set off and caused it deliberately.
The man asked her why she laughed, she took a second to look around, and then claimed she had laughed at a fork that was on the table.
He asked why?
She took about a half second of looking bewildered to say, "because forks are just funny! they look funny!" and looking at it again made her laugh
(without the electrode being involved). She had never found forks funny before that incident, but after that incident, when checked on months later,
she found herself laughing when she saw forks!
It was obvious that the conscious mind had doen a quick scan to determine what had been seen or experienced at the moment she laughed, made the
correlation and claimed it as cause. Which was totally false because the behavior was due to a another stimuli altogether having nothing to do with
what the conscious mind could recognize or know.
But we like to feel in charge of all we do, our conscious mind likes to tell itself it has it all under control, and claims it is when it isn't.
We can have behaviors and emotions which have subconscious sources, and our mind will very quickly come up with and excuse and story for it. If a
person just picks up anger, for example, from another, they can very quickly search their mind for something or someone they could be mad at, and
decide that is why they are mad.
When they weren't before.
That is why I prefer, faced with this complex problem, to NOT spend time tryign to decide who is at fault, who started it, why I feel this way......
and just start from I do feel this way, now how am I going to use this energy?
(because maybe I should specify, I make a difference between "emotions" and "feelings". I am saying, in other words, I prefer not to turn my
"emotions" into "feelings")