Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

reply to post by Jezus


Why are you comparing the avg worker to a CEO? Why not compare the avg worker to an NBA player, or a Hollywood star? There are what, maybe a thousand CEO's making over a million dollars a year. There are over 150 million people in the work force. You're comparing the avg joe to a tiny percentage at the very top.

reply to post by Xtrozero

You are right that is a lot of money and it doesn't come out of my beer fund. It hurts a good deal. Yes, I don't eat cup-of-soup nor do I live in a 1 bedroom apt, but you make my point in you don't care what I pay and maybe I should pay more in your eyes and others, but from my point of veiw it sucks when so many pay nothing but need to still comment.

Why are you assuming I paid "nothing"? Last year my husband was fortunate enough to have work for the entire 52 weeks, at his professional trade. Our gross income was in the mid 5-figures. We got NO refund at all, they kept all of the withholdings, PLUS we had to send a big fat CHECK to them in mid-April, by which time his contract had arbitrarily and suddenly "expired."

So don't come crying to me whaa whaa that you paid some taxes. So did I. And I have for all of my 37 years of working life.
No, I don't care what you paid. You apparently earned enough that your fair share equalled more than two adults working minimum full-time jobs would have EARNED. Tough titties.

Do you understand the living conditions of those who "pay nothing"? Do you understand that they are just as entitled to a decent home and nutritious food as you are?

_________________________________

There seems to be a whole GANG of 1%ers aboard on this thread. And all of you sound...SCARED.

Your arguments don't make sense,

Your holier-than-though attitudes and "phht, earn it yourself, you lazy, jealous slacker" tone are sickening. Selfish, greedy, completely DEVOID of compassion or decent humanity.

So go head, keep it up.
I take it back, DON'T "zip it."

Continue to expose your lack of humanity, your blatant psychotic willingness to exploit whomever to get yourself more than you'll ever need, and then whine about how much of it you didn't get to keep.

Wait.... """puts hand to ear"""....Aha! Whaa Whaa the Whaambulance is coming!!....oh, wait, it can't get through the CROWDS of people who realize you are shallow, pompous, self-righteous SCUM.

I wish I knew how many of you are here getting PAID to stir things up and try to "talk sense" into the working-class folks on here, and the unemployed professionals, all of whom would have jobs, do well at them, and be thankful that they will have a bed under a roof and a full meal at least once per day.....
IF THE CORPORATIONS WERE HIRING AMERICANS, and not running slave shops or pluggin headsets onto people too frightened to do anything else.

You all make me sick.
I wonder, too, how many of you are...dare I say it??? Members of CONGRESS!

WAKE UP, FAT CATS!

Originally posted by ChesterJohn
How about George Clooney?

How about George Clooney?
Damn that is one hell of a reach you got there. Where do you people pull this crap from? Do you care what Kelsey Grammar is getting away with? Patricia Heaton? Ed O'neal? Colin Quinn?

George Clooney.

Originally posted by openminded2011
reply to post by SM2

 

So now fairness in wages= Marxism. Standard winger response, when people ask for social justice, label them Marxists or socialists. What do you prefer, feudalism? Fascism maybe? Corporations are socialists,they privatize the profits and socialize the losses. Tell me this, when Bush bailed out the banks with public money, isn't that socialism? When a small ruling class pays little or no taxes and all tax revenues come off the backs of working people, isn't that exactly what the communists did? What is that, the PLANTATION OWNER MODEL? Why are all rich people such freeloaders? They get a HUGE share of the society's assets, they our use our roads airports and ports to build their financial empires, payed for with the taxes of working people, but they don't want to give anything back. They want all the benefits of the infrastructure of our society, paid for by tax payers, but they don't want to contribute to that infrastructure. THAT is BS. Call me what you want but 99 percent of the country disagrees with you. What we used to call democracy you call socialism. What playbook do you use, Mein Kampf? I am not a communist. I have spoken out against communism in several of my posts. I all I am stating is people should get a fair wage for a fair days work. I want a capitalist system, but one that is regulated against lawbreaking and one that is fair to workers. And one that allows for the common good. like Denmark or Switzerland. These are two countries I am sure you would label socialist, but they have BETTER standards of living for their people than we do.Their people haven't become serfs yet. I don't think a historical reference to Karl Marx is helpful in this instance. But the one to Marie Antoinette works pretty well. PS if you want to live in a society with a ruling oligarchy and no rights for workers or the common people, try Mexico.

edit on 20-10-2011 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

While I agree that a fair wage should be paid for a days work, you have to realize that social justice IS socialism, thats why it gets labeled as such. When you decide to take the money of one group (in Mark's work, the Bourgeois, in the common reference...the rich) and give it freely to another group (in marx's work the Proletarians which translates to the workers.) That is markism, which is the road to communism with a short stop over at socialism , as socialism is the transitional phase while moving to a communist system. You made the argument that corporations are socialist, which I whole heartedly disagree with, you say that corporation privatize their profits....well, the profits are inherently private my friend. They are a business designed to make profit, the profit is their personal property. Just because you set some arbitrary number on how much you think they should make, makes no difference in the matter. Their profits are their profits, therefore they are private property and by virtue, private profits. They have no obligation to share said profits. When you go to work for a company, you essentially make a verbal contract, you agree to do a specific job at a specific wage. If that contract is not to your satisfaction, negotiate, or find a different employer. You can not agree with the contract, then a few days latter say it is the employers fault you are not making enough money. For the record, yes I thought that Bush was an idiot, and I also thought the bail out done by both him AND Obama were socialist in nature.

On to taxes, yes the rich have tax shelters to shield them from the brunt of the income tax, but you do realize that every penny they make from investments, is also hit with the capital gains tax right? So say you cash out a particular investment, well first you get hit with the capital gains tax, and in some cases you get again with the income tax on the same money. If it is a short term gain, the tax burden on that scenario (admittedly rare) is 70%, as the short term capital gains tax is 35% and the top income tax rate is 35%. Long term capital gains tax rate is 15%. That is something Warren Buffet left out in his call to tax people more. He doesnt pay much income tax no, but he pays a ton in capital gains tax. Where do you get this stuff about the rich not paying any taxes? That is mostly propeganda and dis info, the top 10% pay 90% of the income taxes while the bottom 30% or so do not pay a single penny in income tax. If you want everyone to pay "their fair share" set a hard percentage and everyone pays the same. Say 15% everyone pays 15% no deductions, no shelters, just a straight 15% I bet the poor would love that, they loose 15% of their income right away, maybe people should read for themselves instead of regurgitating the left wing position.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Why are you comparing the avg worker to a CEO?

The two parts are attached, I was trying to bring attention to the top part. Particularly the time period.





Of course the top 1% should be "rich", but shouldn't the rest of the population be gaining something from our nations productivity and natural resources as well?

reply to post by Jezus


Yes the rest of us should be gaining something I agree. 100% I agree. I think the disagreement is on how to get there. You have some people that want the government to force the employers to get them there, which to me is a social justice angle (read marxist) and you have some people that say that the best way of getting there is to rely on oneself to get you there, which is the way I see it, self reliance, personal responsibility.

reply to post by wildtimes


Ya know, I do feel bad for your situation, truly I do, as i can see you are a hard working decent family, I hope things get better for you. However, if you are making mid 5 figures, and you had to send a big fat check to the IRS, maybe you need to find someone else to do your taxes. Do you itemize? you should. When I made mid to upper 5 figures, I never had to send them a check, I typically got a refund. Maybe you should take a peak at our payroll deductions. If your husband is self employed, almost every work expense (even car insurance, gas, travel time etc, depending on the industry) is an exemption. I have done taxes for tons of people, and the only people I have seen, from my experience that have to send in a check while making under 100 grand a year or so are people that refuse to itemize, fail to utilize all their deduction or make an error on their payroll deductions. Not saying it can not happen, just saying you should sit down and reevaluate all the options on deductions and such.

reply to post by openminded2011


So what you are saying is, screw the rest of the world. If jobs are created in foreign nations so poor countries have a perspective you dont care. Did it ever occour to you, that those poor countries might thrive and one day consume American products and services?

reply to post by SM2


Thank you for your kind consideration. Two years ago I did hire a CPA. Still wound up paying, but not as much. The problem with itemizing is that I have a small mortage (I owe less than $80,000), I don't have huge medical bills to deduct (we're pretty healthy), I don't make gigantic charitable contributions (because I can't afford to). The problem seems to be that I'm not enough of a consumer to build up deductions.

When I try to itemize, I always ALWAYS wind up doing better with the Standard deduction. We just aren't affluent enough to have deductions that would protect us.

Years ago, when I was running my own child-care business and my husband was working in the lower-mid 5-figure range, I had a terrific CPA who not only charged us less than his usual fee, but also was a whiz at putting together my receipts, expenses, deductions, etc. I had two small children (deductions, so to speak) at the time as well.

Now, my children have flown the coop. It's just hubby and me, making do. We seem to be in that middle range where we don't get a refund, but we also can't afford new cars, new clothes, eating out, movie dates...we buy second hand, pay cash (except for emergencies), wear our clothes til they've gone out of fashion and come back in again....eat healthy food we cook at home, and watch DVDs rented from the library.

Don't get me wrong, we're not suffering. We just don't play the game to the tune of earning "deductions."

But again, thanks for the pointers. VERY much appreciated. Next time one of us gets to fill out a W-4, maybe we should claim 0, that way we'd maybe get a small refund of part of the taxes we pay.

-WT

reply to post by Cassius666


Thank you for showing compassion to foreign workers. I never realized that corporations were Outsourcing out of the goodness of their hearts. You are right, maybe 20 or 30 years from now they will buy our American products, then maybe my grandchildren can have a middle class again

its going to be along time before American made goods are consumed large scale. They are too expensive. The cost of manufacturing goods in America is highest in the world, due to all the government regulation and the extremely high corporate tax rates. This is part of the reason why the large corporations move operations overseas. It is not necessarily outsourcing, as outsourcing would mean some third party is actually making the product, it is moving a portion of the operation overseas because of the high cost of doing business in the states. Afterall a firm has to have a high enough profit margin to stay in business and most companies do not operate on as high of a margin as one would initially think. You see the total dollar amount of the profit from say an oil company and you see billions in profit, what they dont tell (they being the media and politicians, or organizations wanting y our support) is that, that 2 billion in profits for that quarter is actually a 6% profit margin meaning, for every dollar in gross revenue, only 6 cents is actual profit, the rest goes to liabilities or cost of doing business. For a reference, book publishers make 10 % higher profit then an oil company.They are ranked at 114 on the list of net profit margins

seekingalpha.com...

So until we get the government's role in doing business limited, as it is supposed to be, this will continue. If you want to fight the true cause of the perceived low wages and high costs of goods, you need to talk to the federal government.

Think about it in terms of your household. If you want to go to a big box store and purchase a new appliance, but this website has the same item for half the price, which one are you going to buy? Thats the same thing the corporations do to protect their bottom line and keep the stockholders (from the rich down to the people like you and I if you happen to have stock in that company) happy by increasing the value of that stock by producing a net profit which will lead to higher dividends (which are again taxed with capital gains tax) or causing the stocks to split, which in turns doubles your amount of stock in that company.

treat the cause not the symptoms.

reply to post by wildtimes

Do you understand the living conditions of those who "pay nothing"? Do you understand that they are just as entitled to a decent home and nutritious food as you are?

sure do.
you try living out of a car with 2 cats ... been there, have you?

yes, i understand your words, i just simply disagree and here's why ... entitlement
decent home - do these ppl have working arms & legs ?? if so, build one.
nutritious food - do these ppl have soil nearby ?? if so, grow some.
[it's not like you can drop by the corner grocery anymore and get "nutritious" supplies]

those are your entitlements ... the Earth provides and with liberty and freedom for all, we pursue happiness, this is the freedom for which our ancestors fought.

please don't misunderstand, i am sympathetic to your plight ... however, i am not obligated to help anyone. although, i do prefer to assist animals in their time of need.

does that make me less compassionate because i place animals above humans?
humans can fend for themselves, domestic animals, not so much.
humans are naturally skilled to adapt, domestic animals, not so much.
humans have advantages domestic animals seldom enjoy so i tend to share with them first.

perhaps one day, when your mind moves to a place less judgmental than where you stand today, perhaps then you'll begin to understand.

Originally posted by Honor93

decent home - do these ppl have working arms & legs ?? if so, build one.
nutritious food - do these ppl have soil nearby ?? if so, grow some.
[it's not like you can drop by the corner grocery anymore and get "nutritious" supplies]

Simply not true. Go out into the woods and try to build a house and grow some crops. See how much time passes before the authorities show up and ask for permits.

Don't you think all these tent cities would actually do that if they legally could?

reply to post by Honor93

please don't misunderstand, i am sympathetic to your plight ... however, i am not obligated to help anyone. although, i do prefer to assist animals in their time of need.

does that make me less compassionate because i place animals above humans?
humans can fend for themselves, domestic animals, not so much.
humans are naturally skilled to adapt, domestic animals, not so much.
humans have advantages domestic animals seldom enjoy so i tend to share with them first.

perhaps one day, when your mind moves to a place less judgmental than where you stand today, perhaps then you'll begin to understand.

Less "judgmental"?
FYI, pompous rich guy....
I, too, prefer to help animals. I take in strays every time I have an "opening", and I care for them until their time on earth has expired.

I agree with you that many of the "poor" and "welfare recipients" are unwilling to go out and make their own way. I don't happen to be one of them.
I am fully prepared, emotionally, psychologically, and physically, to build my own home, grow my own food, and fend for myself.
Do I have sympathy for the slovenly, lazy moochers that use the tax dollars that *I* also pay taxes to support so they can sit around and become obese and have more babies they can't afford and let their places of residence fall down into the dirt? NO, I DO NOT.

Do I care about the children and the mentally ill homeless and the disenfranchised who, despite their best efforts to "adapt", are neglected and rejected and hungry? YES, I DO.

So spare me your persistent name-calling and superior attitude.
Those who CAN are doing their best. Those who CAN'T are hungry and homeless. Those who WON'T are a different group altogether.
And your stubborn efforts at making me appear to be a grovelling moocher will not work.
"Honor" my backside.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by apacheman

 

so, a man makes a billion dollars and then, what? he's supposed to keep it in non-income producing accounts? that'd be the only that the money would decrease over time.


good luck with that

He pays 10% a year of his wealth until his wealth is reduced to more reasonable levels. That is the answer. Income taxation is the wrong place to look when it comes to reallocating resources.

reply to post by Cuervo

tent cities in the middle of downtown is hardly comparable to a cabin in the woodlands.
Cuervo please, this is me you're talking to ... did you really think i'd let that illogical comparison fly?

we're not talking about 1 or 2 ppl here, we're talking about a movement, remember?
Starve the beast and it will die.

besides, until the Fed Reserve is gone, these problems are designed to amplify anyway.
you can be a cog or a wrench ... but the wheels are gonna keep on turning.

remember, i do support the protesters, just not the now publicized agenda.
i do believe we have the power to change the system that oppresses us, however, those currently waiting in the wings are worse.

reply to post by Honor93

tent cities in the middle of downtown is hardly comparable to a cabin in the woodlands.
Cuervo please, this is me you're talking to ... did you really think i'd let that illogical comparison fly?

we're not talking about 1 or 2 ppl here, we're talking about a movement, remember?
Starve the beast and it will die.

besides, until the Fed Reserve is gone, these problems are designed to amplify anyway.
you can be a cog or a wrench ... but the wheels are gonna keep on turning.

remember, i do support the protesters, just not the now publicized agenda.
i do believe we have the power to change the system that oppresses us, however, those currently waiting in the wings are worse.

Dude, do you hear yourself? Do you have ANY control over how wishy-washy you allow yourself to be?

What is wrong with the publicized agenda? That the uber-rich in banking and who accepted taxpayers' money so they could continue to be criminal racketeers, who are fine with allowing the unemployed to go hungry and are lobbying politicians so they can continue to do so, is somehow "unfair" and "judgmental"?

'facepalm'
You can't have it both ways. Either you are on board, or you are not. Spouting whatever you think will get you sympathy and understanding is simply refusal to take a stance.

reply to post by wildtimes

yes, less judgmental ... see here for classic examples ... your post

pompous rich guy
shows what you don't know or even bother to ask.

good for you, you help strays ... i have been instrumental in the nationwide TNR programs to reduce feral populations and have re-homed hundreds along the way. thanks for the help

where did you get this from ???

I agree with you that many of the "poor" and "welfare recipients" are unwilling to go out and make their own way. I don't happen to be one of them.

those aren't my words or my sentiments and certainly weren't discussed in this topic.

now see, this is where we disagree ...

Do I have sympathy for the slovenly, lazy moochers that use the tax dollars that *I* also pay taxes to support so they can sit around and become obese and have more babies they can't afford and let their places of residence fall down into the dirt? NO, I DO NOT

i have great sympathy for these folks because many were never taught any better.
those who were, were often taught thuggery and that's all they know.

believe me, i have no desire to support the likes of Angel Adams or her brood or Octomom or any other (and there have been many over the years) system abuser ... however, i don't get to make that choice and neither do you. this is what needs to change.

Do I care about the children and the mentally ill homeless and the disenfranchised who, despite their best efforts to "adapt", are neglected and rejected and hungry? YES, I DO.

so do most ppl i know but how does OWS or re-distribution of wealth help them?
if you've ever read Marx or the theories represented by this group, those folks would be "eliminated" systematically. this is not a secret.

yes, please spare me your persistent name calling and irrelevant arguments ... this is an important issue for everyone.
instead of whining about what is wrong, how 'bout defining a solution?
if you perceive yourself as a groveling moocher, that's on you, not me.
if you cannot or will not conduct yourself in a respectful manner, don't expect future response.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Honor93

 

tent cities in the middle of downtown is hardly comparable to a cabin in the woodlands.
Cuervo please, this is me you're talking to ... did you really think i'd let that illogical comparison fly?

we're not talking about 1 or 2 ppl here, we're talking about a movement, remember?
Starve the beast and it will die.

besides, until the Fed Reserve is gone, these problems are designed to amplify anyway.
you can be a cog or a wrench ... but the wheels are gonna keep on turning.

remember, i do support the protesters, just not the now publicized agenda.
i do believe we have the power to change the system that oppresses us, however, those currently waiting in the wings are worse.

Dude, do you hear yourself? Do you have ANY control over how wishy-washy you allow yourself to be?

What is wrong with the publicized agenda? That the uber-rich in banking and who accepted taxpayers' money so they could continue to be criminal racketeers, who are fine with allowing the unemployed to go hungry and are lobbying politicians so they can continue to do so, is somehow "unfair" and "judgmental"?

'facepalm'
You can't have it both ways. Either you are on board, or you are not. Spouting whatever you think will get you sympathy and understanding is simply refusal to take a stance.

wishy-washy where ??? show me.
this is not the topic for "what is wrong with the publicized agenda?" ... ask such a question in the proper topic and i'd be glad to reply

i don't know these "uber-rich" you reference but if you have names, i'm listening.

unfair and judgmental are the words you typed in a previous post also linked in my previous post. don't muddy the waters now ... it's there for anyone to read for themselves.

wrong ... i'm an American ... i make my own choices ... not you and certainly not by ultimatum ... and, why is this focused on an "all or nothing" platform when there is NO PLAN of recovery??

i seek no sympathy, only understanding.
i suffer my own consequences and there have been many ... how you doin' ??
IF or when the OWS intends to either End the Fed or Restore the Constitution, i'm all in but that day isn't today.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Conservatives blame the government for everything and liberals blame corporations and the wealthy for everything. Fact of the matter is corporations have been sleeping with government so long they had three offspring...

1)IRS
2)FED
3)CIA

All three are males, BIG and TOUGH males, no politician dares touch!

Naturally the couple blames welfare receipents and calls them lazy. Its the old cliche "the best defense is a good offense." They will deflect the blame anywhere it suits them, including the "big, bad wolf" called unions. Ooouuuhhhh