Ron Paul's comprehensive economic 'Plan to Restore America' *JUST RELEASED*, page 5

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reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 10:29 AM by maddog99

Originally posted by Ihsahn
Forgive me for the question, but wouldn't eliminating the Dept. of Education be a bad thing?

Could someone clarify this a little for me?

All of my kids teachers...well, the ones we see that really care, don't like the Federal Govt's involvement. They say they really can't teach the class "their way" because of fear their kids will not meet the Federal standards. Here's more...

The Department itself is a costly bureaucracy, with thousands of employees, that serves no purpose and is a waste of money.
www.nationalfreedomforum.com...

edit on 18-10-2011 by maddog99 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 10:42 AM by txraised254

Originally posted by darkest4
So I'm guessing everyone in this thread is against occupy wallstreet movement and supports lower taxes for the rich and powerful while cutting programs that help the poor/middle class. Because thats what this plan does which the OP leaves out of course. I guess you all want to further widen the gap between the rich and poor. No wonder Rush Limbaugh is supporting him.

"Paul would also make far-reaching changes to federal tax policy, reducing the top corporate income tax rate to 15 percent, eliminating capital gains and dividends taxes and allowing for repatriation of overseas capital without tax penalties. All tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush would be extended."

Corporate income tax is pretty self explanatory. Capital gains tax = tax on money made from stocks, bonds etc. Huge tax break for the rich and powerful who will now be able to transfer even more wealth from the poor to the rich and manipulate and dominate the stock market further. Dividend tax is an income tax on dividend payments to the stockholders (shareholders) of a company. So same as above.

Corporations, wall street and millionaires/billionaires will love it if Ron Paul gets voted after reading this plan. They will be richer than ever at the expense of the middle/poor class. The rich and powerful will be even richer and more powerful, while the poor and middle class get even more screwed, is that really the world you want?

I used to be a Ron Paul fan until reading this plan and realizing hes just another wallstreet sellout, and worse than most his plan helps them more than any other.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

Ron Paul has been talking about this for years...So what I'm assuming is you don't listen very well when someone is speaking?...if you was a Ron Paul fan you should of known that he has been wanting these programs cuts and gone and has wanted to eliminate all taxes...this should be no surprise..

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 10:51 AM by spacekc929

I have to say that I agree with the people who are skeptical of this plan which would eliminate a lot of programs that generally benefit poorer people and that would lower taxes on the rich. If Ron Paul really cared about the people, don't you think he would lower taxes on them too? But he can't, because if he did that, there simply wouldn't be enough revenue in the government to keep it functioning. So he is trying to further the 'free market' by helping business at the expense of hundreds of thousands of regular, non-business people, including many of us on this website. Not to mention, the Department of Education may not necessarily be of the same ideals as the state education boards, but it gives them a lot of money - the teachers hate it, but the schools need it. Without it, many schools in poorer areas would flounder, especially in places where they cannot pass levies because the people can't afford it, and our less wealthy citizens would become even less educated than they already are. Meanwhile, rich people would reap the gains of the tax plan, would be able to send their children to private schools, and the gap widens.

Ron Paul isn't a corporate sellout because they pay him to be. He is a corporate sellout because he is fighting for their rights while ignoring the rights of the people, especially those who do not have as much free speech (ie, money) as wealthier Americans. I suppose if it makes me an idiot for supporting Ron Paul before realizing that this was what he was all about, then I am an idiot, but I am no longer voting for Ron Paul.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 10:51 AM by darkest4

reply to post by txraised254

He's NOT "eliminating all taxes". That is the problem, that's what his supporters seem to think but his plan tells the truth. READ his plan it doesn't touch regular income tax at all. Are you lower or middle class? If so, he doesn't lower your taxes at all from what the already are (the bush tax cuts were extended and are still in effect right now), he doesn't "eliminate" them.

Again.. "..reducing the top corporate income tax rate to 15 percent, eliminating capital gains and dividends taxes.."

He eliminates and lowers taxes that are on the rich and powerful and wallstreeters by outright eliminating taxes on the massive amounts of money they make from stocks/bonds/investments! That is a huge tax break for top 1% who rely heavily on stocks/bonds etc to supplement and grow their vast wealth and gain power in big corporations. He also lowers taxes on rich corporations. So unless you own millions of dollars in stocks or are CEO of a big corporation who will probably give you a fatter bonus now, your taxes are going to stay the same.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:05 AM by ker2010

reply to post by darkest4

Right now I could really care less about taxes staying the same. We have to cut these needless wars and this over sea spending. But go ahead and vote for Cain or Romney and see how that does you.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:06 AM by maddog99

Originally posted by darkest4
reply to post by txraised254

He's NOT "eliminating all taxes". That is the problem, that's what his supporters seem to think but his plan tells the truth. READ his plan it doesn't touch regular income tax at all. Are you lower or middle class? If so, he doesn't lower your taxes at all from what the already are (the bush tax cuts were extended and are still in effect right now), he doesn't "eliminate" them.

Again.. "..reducing the top corporate income tax rate to 15 percent, eliminating capital gains and dividends taxes.."

He eliminates and lowers taxes that are on the rich and powerful and wallstreeters by outright eliminating taxes on the massive amounts of money they make from stocks/bonds/investments! That is a huge tax break for top 1% who rely heavily on stocks/bonds etc to supplement and grow their vast wealth and gain power in big corporations. He also lowers taxes on rich corporations. So unless you own millions of dollars in stocks your taxes are going to stay the same.
edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

Can you show me where you get your info?

KEEP MORE OF YOUR MONEY
The power to tax is the power to destroy, which is why Ron Paul will never support higher taxes.

Our national debt is currently over $14 trillion, with the government spending nearly $2 trillion more per year than it collects. The American people should not have to pay for Washington’s reckless and out-of-control appetite for debt.

High taxes stifle innovation, prevent saving, destroy production, crush the middle class and the poor, and discourage investment. Every American is entitled to the fruits of his labor, especially during these tough economic times.

Lowering taxes will leave you more money to take care of yourself and your family, and it will allow businesses greater opportunities to hire new workers, increase current salaries, and expand their companies.

As President, Ron Paul will support a Liberty Amendment to the Constitution to abolish the income and death taxes. And he will be proud to be the one who finally turns off the lights at the IRS for good.

Capital gains taxes, which punish you for success (and interfere with your efforts to hedge against inflation by purchasing gold and silver coins), should also be immediately repealed.

Struggling college students and those working to support their families would be greatly benefited and receive an immediate pay raise by eliminating taxes on tips.

As a congressman, Ron Paul has consistently endorsed legislation to let Americans claim more tax credits and deductions, including on educational costs, alternative energy vehicles, and health care. He also believes it is immoral to tax senior citizens twice by requiring them to include Social Security benefits in their gross income at tax time. A first step to eliminating that requirement would be to repeal the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits. Then we must abolish that tax entirely.

While a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax would each be a better alternative to the income tax system, Congressman Paul believes we would have to guarantee the 16th Amendment is repealed to avoid having both the income tax and one of these systems as an additional tax.

But there is a better way. Restraining federal spending by enforcing the Constitution’s strict limits on the federal government’s power would help result in a 0% income tax rate for Americans.

The answer to spending and debt is to return to a constitutionally limited government that protects liberty – not one that keeps robbing Peter to pay Paul.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:09 AM by AJ1123TKE

We'll I'd say this put's "999" (or "999-9", however you see it) to shame.

Hopefully the population has foresight and patience in choosing our next president, and fooled by the immediate gratification of something that's potentially very silly like 999.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:10 AM by evolv

I know its cool to blindly agree with everything Ron Paul stands for and I personally have been a long time Ron Paul supporter. Although I agree with some of his viewpoints there are many other's that I feel would have disastrous consequences on this nation.

I do agree with ending foreign wars, foreign aid, ect... but completely eliminating the Department of Energy and Education!?!? You have got to be kidding me!? I would suggest anyone who is for this should get ready to say goodbye to student loans, grants, new educational programs, new energy programs, ect and much more of which both of these Departments are involved in.

The reduction in Federal and Congressional spending I do agree with, but extending the Bush Tax cuts!? You have got to be kidding me, Standard and Poor's specifically stated that not repealing the Bush Tax cuts was one of the primary reasons for our lowered credit rating. Then lower the Corporate Tax rate even more to 15%, but do nothing about ending Corporate Loopholes. (Please look-up corporate Tax Rates over the last 50 years, even under Reagan and corporations payed higher tax's and contributed more to this economy.)

Whether you like to believe it or not our Healthcare system is completely broken and "Obamacare" as its known will actually benefit you 99%'ers and repealing this will have unimaginable consequences to the millions who have finally received healthcare. (Please read whats in Obama care before spewing talking points about that bad it is) Dodd-Frank is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if we EVER want to fix this CIRCUS in wallstreet. Dodd-Frank is the reform Occupy Wallstreet needs to be fighting for, but Ron Paul wants to eliminate it!? Half of Dodd-Frank hasn't even been implemented because of Corporate Lobbyist who will never let it pass! Now Ron Paul wants to join these coporate Lobbyists!?

This plan will essentially make eliminate many programs the Middle class are relying on and will give many benefits to the multi-national corporations that have hijacked our country. (Even more benefits than they have now, which has made the top 1% richer than any time in U.S. history and which has pushed the income inequality gap farther than any nation that has ever existed on this PLANET)

Although a full audit of the Fed is completely necessary if we ever want to stabilize out of control spending caused by our Fractional Reserve System.

So in all I agree with about 40% of the proposed plans in this bill and sadly have to disagree with the other 60% after reading it MORE Carefully. I am not trying to change anyone's opinions, I really just want people to understand what these kinds of plans will bring to the U.S. and this is just based on assumptions. This is based on the progress that the United States has made and the abolishment of many programs that keep kids educated,get the U.S. off foreign oil, and to reform Wall-Street so it doesn't have the ability to TAKE OVER America.

edit on 18-10-2011 by evolv because: spellcheck

edit on 18-10-2011 by evolv because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:10 AM by darkest4

reply to post by ker2010

I agree wars need to be stopped of course and some programs could be cut, but cutting all the programs that benefit the middle/lower class and education and then basically handing all that money saved over to the rich and powerful by cutting all dividends/capital gains taxes and lowering corporate income tax is probably one of the biggest money transfers from the middle/lower class to the rich/wallstreet/corporations in the history of america.

How can I support something so disgusting which only benefits the greedy rich assholes who got us in this situation in the first place?

I'm not "voting for Cain or Romney" or any republican.. Nor would I vote obama. I'll probably write in a vote of "no confidence" unless a true candidate for the middle/lower class not brought out by wallstreet shows up which I surely doubt from the current republican party. Maybe a good independent candidate will show himself, who knows, that's probably what America needs right now.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:14 AM by darkest4

reply to post by maddog99

I get the info from his actual plan... not his pretty pr statements which sound nice and dandy just like every politicians does. It's easy to blindly follow Ron Paul because he seems different and refreshing and says some awesome things about stopping wars and what not, but you have to actually read his plan and see that it screws middle/lower class and GREATLY benefits the rich/wallstreet/multinational corporations. Every politician makes pretty promises and tries to phrase things in ways that sound good to the average man, his plan shows his true intentions.

His plan quite simply cuts taxes only on the rich, wallstreet and corporations. There is zero benefit to the other 99% of americans and then they get screwed further by having all of the programs which benefit them. It is a direct transfer of wealth from the middle/poor class into the pockets of the rich.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:19 AM by Habit4ming

Originally posted by Myendica
wait.. Rush endorses Paul? I may have to re-evaluate my choice now. I have never agreed with Rush,. I'm scared.. Seriously, I'm a have to go see a doctor I think.

in all honesty.. people won;t go for it. You see where it mentioned cutting 10% fed jobs, well.. doesnt the fed employ most americans because how big it is.. cutting jobs will cause more unemployment and more problems.

not that I dont agree. just saying.

oh and the media won't mention how he is taking 39k salary. only speculating that he'll have to cut all the things you and I love..
edit on 18-10-2011 by Myendica because: (no reason given)

It's my understanding that he said these jobs would be cut through attrition--meaning nobody loses their job--meaning if someone retires no one is hired to replace that person--meaning if someone quits, no one is hired to replace that person. He definitely did use the word attrition...and I took it to mean for all these cuts. Does anybody else think I misunderstood his intentions here?

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:19 AM by ker2010

reply to post by darkest4

The department of educatuion has done nothing (its useless).. In fact our education level has gotten worse since this department was implemented in , 1979-80. Why keep useless departments which have done nothing but get us in more debt? Show me how this department has helped.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:24 AM by WhiteDevil013

Nothing groundbreaking about Ron Pauls plan. What I found intelligent was his strategy of waiting for basically everyone else to come up with a plan, then picked and chose what was popular.

His whole general concept is just conservatism, which many people immediately & ignorantly relate to republicans. I do not consider myself a repubic, nor do I belong to any political affiliation, but I do know one thing and that is Ron Paul may have all the popular votes in the world, but it wont matter in the end if he doesnt have the right puppet strings eh erm I mean purse strings supporting him.....which he currently lacks.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:26 AM by darkest4

reply to post by ker2010

I'm not going to argue about one particular department, even if you had some points about the dept of education, that is completely besides the point. Shrinking the govt some could be a good thing but that should be done in a way that helps the lower/middle class and puts more money in their pocket.

However Ron Paul is eliminating many programs which help out the poor/middle class and then using the money saved to greatly lower taxes on the rich and corporations instead while keeping everyone elses taxes the same. It's a transfer of power from the poor/middle class to the rich, that is the part that made me drop my support for Mr Paul.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:26 AM by evolv

reply to post by ker2010

We actually have one of the most decentralized education systems on the known planet and the Federal Government/ Department of Education plays less of a role in our Education system than almost all other industrialized nations on this planet. I currently am relying on Student Aid (Yes I am the 99%) to afford my College Tuition and have a stable living standard. If you honestly feel the Department of Education is that useless then you have been brainwashed by Conservative mainstream news.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:27 AM by Battleline

reply to post by eLPresidente

Good to finally see Paul put his cards on the table,something most politicians won't do because then they own it.It purity much puts the double-speak of the other contenders on hold.
Limbaugh has to find a way to make people think that RP is copying him in order for him to backpedal from all the negative rhetoic Limbaugh has put out about Paul.In order for him to actually say RP is right and maybe indorse him,Limbaugh has to make it look like it was his idea.
The only negative I see here is Paul is really painting a huge target on himself,now he is messing with the world and there American handouts,it was bad enough when it was just the Fed and goverment jobs.
The other down side is he is showing people how corrupt the system is when he has such good ideas and the MSM ignore him and the polls show the clones on top.When this is all over and we have another political clone in the Whitehouse or something happens to Ron Paul we will know there is nothing people that want this country back can do.........................Im not sure I want that staring me in the face but something has to happen when someone like Paul puts forth a viable way to get this country back on its feet.

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:29 AM by ker2010

I don’t agree with everything he says, but he is dead right about cutting the bloated government bureaucracy, getting rid of the existing tax code (and going with a flat rate), but above all, in getting the deficit down and a balanced budget in place. The yahoo in chief has already driven our debt up over 15 trillion dollars — that’s more than 3 trillion extra in 3 years, and the only thing we currently have to look forward to is hyperinflation and massive unemployment when the QE bubble bursts in the next year or so.

TPTB own the msm, the msm is trying to black Ron Paul out giving him no chance, so therefore logic dictates Ron Paul is not a puppet for TPTB or they would be giving him major coverage.

The positives of his plans outweigh the negatives imo. Its either do what he proposes or keep raising the debt ceiling, keep doing endless spending until we end up like Greece.

Right now their is no other way to fix the country that will not effect SOMEONE.

edit on 18-10-2011 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:34 AM by darkest4

reply to post by ker2010

Please tell me what is the point of reducing the bloated govt but then giving all the money saved to rich/wallstreet/corporations instead?? The whole point of reducing the govt would be to reduce the burden on the average American and cut their taxes right? But Ron Paul is only cutting taxes on the rich and powerful, there are zero tax cuts for 99% of Americans.

You're just ignoring the harsh reality and fine print of his plan because you've been sold on the idea that the govt is too bloated, which may be true, but there's only sense in reducing the bloat if it somehow benefits 99% of American's to do so not just wallstreet/rich/corporations like Ron Paul's plan does.
Any plan should benefit 99% of American's not just the 1% richest who are giddy over this plan in wallstreet.

edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:36 AM by ker2010

reply to post by darkest4

Then what is your proposal what would you cut?

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:38 AM by txraised254

Originally posted by darkest4
reply to post by txraised254

He's NOT "eliminating all taxes". That is the problem, that's what his supporters seem to think but his plan tells the truth. READ his plan it doesn't touch regular income tax at all. Are you lower or middle class? If so, he doesn't lower your taxes at all from what the already are (the bush tax cuts were extended and are still in effect right now), he doesn't "eliminate" them.

Again.. "..reducing the top corporate income tax rate to 15 percent, eliminating capital gains and dividends taxes.."

He eliminates and lowers taxes that are on the rich and powerful and wallstreeters by outright eliminating taxes on the massive amounts of money they make from stocks/bonds/investments! That is a huge tax break for top 1% who rely heavily on stocks/bonds etc to supplement and grow their vast wealth and gain power in big corporations. He also lowers taxes on rich corporations. So unless you own millions of dollars in stocks or are CEO of a big corporation who will probably give you a fatter bonus now, your taxes are going to stay the same.
edit on 18-10-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)

Lowering the personal income tax level right now wouldn't do no good imo. Cut taxes for businesses let them bring their money from offshore accounts back over without having to pay a tax on it. I do think that many jobs will come from that aspect alone as many will see it as an opportunity to make some money. Once we get unemployment back down and the size of government stable the personal income tax cut will come. I personally think unemployment is too high and government is too big at this time for a personal tax cut. We need the jobs first then we can cut the income tax probably the reason he only taking like a 39k salary symbolically saying "I know I'm working on it".
I enjoy the plan and it all work together to me. And I fall somewhere in between lower class and middle I make like 20k a year..