Why don't the conspiracy theorists have their OWN investigation?

reply to post by GoodOlDave

If you can mathematically show how controlled demolitions brought down the towers in the precise way that we all saw in the videos then you wouldn't need to worry about your critics. All you'd need to do is challenge everyone to show why your results are wrong.

They can call a national news conference and get all the major networks to show up then present the exact details to show how it was a demo.
They have the plans and the experts all they have to show is the method. The networks would be falling all over themselves to get to the airwaves first.

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
reply to post by Cassius666

 

Hey Cassius -

Do you know if any of the threads that have claimed controlled demo lay out a hypothesis detailing the logistics for wiring up (2) 100+ story buildings and a 45+ story building with explosives without anyone seeing?

Try looking into the CitiGroup Center in NYC. There's plenty of posts on it.

For the next three months, a construction crew welded two-inch-thick steel plates over each of the skyscraper's 200 bolted joints during the night, after each work day, almost unknown to the general public.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Nutter


So where is the whitehouse admitting that they got it wrong and there should be a whole new investigation?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by SunnyDee
Well Dave, another thread on this huh? Ok.
So, do you think the general public will be given access to all the various people that would need to to be interviewed, like the president, VP, pentagon chiefs, all video footage from there? Blah, Blah, blah, we've seen what was officially allowed, to the public, it wasn't nearly enough, and yet you think a citizen's investigation will turn up more?

Why do you need to talk to the president to calculate out how much nanothermite it would take to destroy a particular steel beam? Why do you need to interview the pentagon chiefs to determine how many supports you'd need to destroy in order to overload the remaining supports.

It sounds to me like you're just making up excuses for why you DON'T have to hold your own investigation.

I'd love to see you post how this could be done, seriously, not with simple sentences like, "you've got all the specialists apparently".

Niels Harrit (the guy who cowrote that "thermitic" paper with Jones) is an expert on nanothermite and he can reverse engineer the exact formula from the samples he has. Once he had that, out of the 1600 people in AE911truth's petition, there's got to be at least one guy knowledgable about controlled demolitions, and would know exactly how much of the stuff it would take to destroy a support column.

Well I guess in your world Dave, no one has anything better to do for free with their time. Certainly not scientists and engineers.

You evaded my question, making up excuses yourself. Why don't you tell us how, logistically, the new investigation will go? Who should take charge, where will the funding come from.....let's start there.

Do you not think the original investigation took money? And who paid for it? Will they pay for another investigation that they don't want or feel they need? They got exactly the answers they were seeking from the first investigation, in fact, it was almost a waste of time, since most of the media gave us all the answers that came out of those reports from day one. Our unbiased media is just that good!


If I didn't know better I'd think you have an agenda? Silly me.

PS: If you do have an agenda, you'll ignore my next comment. Give it up, you ain changing us "Questioners" minds.

Originally posted by SavedOne
I'm an architect and I take issue with those who continually hold up AE911Truth as some kind of proof that our profession backs these crazy 9-11 conspiracy theories. It positively does not.

As an architect, can you explain how and why a 110 story building can just fall into itself without loosing energy at each collision?

1) As of 2010 there were 105,312 registered architects in the US. I cannot locate the number of structural engineers, but assume it is about the same. The AE911Truth organization has 1,627 signatures. If you review the list only about 25% of those signatures are professional registrants in the US, the rest are interns or people outside of the US. So 0.2% of professional architects and engineers have signed the petition, that is a very small sampling.

How many have signed a petition that states they feel the investigation and conclusions were thorough?

Yeah....didn't think so.

2) The petition merely states the group signing it thinks a more detailed investigation should be done, signing the petition is NOT an endorsement of the conspiracy theories, merely an indication that those who signed think the previous investigation was not thorough enough.

Agreed. And is why this structural forensic professional engineer has signed the petition.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Dont you mean why? Or does the english language elude me here? O and y arent event close on the keyboard. Well a lot of information has been gathered. There are some threads about the NORAD war games, MPRI and how the people who were connected to the wtc complex were also connected to a company that manufactured thermite for demolition purposes. You could chime in there.

Yes, that is a typo. It should be WHY, not who. Pretend the O is really a Y. If you know how to correct the title after it's been posted, let me know.

But I guess you prefer to let those threads sink to the bottom of the board and prefer to push threads about killersattelites and what not

So in other words, in addition to my reminding you that you can have your own investigation instead of just sitting around and waiting for someone else to do something, I also need to explain to you what an investigation actually is...? All right, fine by me.

An investigation is where you pick a specific topic and then you try to research details about that specific topic. This is why the 9/11 commission report stuck with the topic of "who attacked us and how they did it" and didn't touch the mechanical collapse of the towers. This is why the NIST and FEMA stuck with the topics of how the buildings collapsed and didn't touch any of that bit about Mohammed Atta. This is also why an investigation on global warming sticks with the topic of global warming and doesn't touch whether or not the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3.

THEREFORE, in your investigation on controlled demolitions, this is why you stick to information relevent to controlled demolitions and leave off that bit about how many secret agents are in MPRI. If you want to have another investigation on how many secret agents are in MPRI, fine, but you need to leave off that bit about whether or not the lamp posts out by the Pentagon were knocked over or sabotaged.

See how it works?

Originally posted by Nutter
Even the whitehouse admits that "they got it wrong".

www.house.gov...

How about we start there?

Weiner was in the White House?

Okay, let's say you've found something that was done wrong in the investigation. Now it is incumbent upon you to explain how that would change the result of the investigation. Does it change the airplane-fire-collapse sequence? Do any of the questions asked by Weiner change the airplane-fire-collapse sequence? This press release was written in 2002 ... have any of the questions raised by Weiner been answered in the last nine years? You could write Mr. Weiner and ask him if he supports a new investigation.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

If you know how to correct the title after it's been posted, let me know.

You click "edit" and correct the title typo.
If you can't figure that one out after 3400 posts, then I'm sure your take on 9/11 is pretty solid.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Nutter

 

So where is the whitehouse admitting that they got it wrong and there should be a whole new investigation?

The whole reason for the National Construction Safety Team Act was to ensure that the mishandled evidence and in-fighting that hobbled FEMA’s World Trade Center investigation never happens again.

Guess how they did that?

The NIST was employed.

The NIST WTC Investigation was conducted under the authority of the National Construction Safety Team Act.

www.nist.gov...



I would say that is admitting there should be a whole new investigation since FEMA had already investigated? Wouldn't you?

reply to post by Nutter

Try looking into the CitiGroup Center in NYC. There's plenty of posts on it.

But they didn't have to hide wire from floor to floor. Plus there would have to several places where they all had to join up in some sort of junction assembly.

Would an explosives expert go back into a building with hundreds of live charges knowing full well that the previous months work had been exposed to public access unattended? That's like taking a nap in room full of stick matches and a three year old boy.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
Weiner was in the White House?

Read the first line again.

I'll give you a hint......

President Bush has signed into law

Okay, let's say you've found something that was done wrong in the investigation. Now it is incumbent upon you to explain how that would change the result of the investigation. Does it change the airplane-fire-collapse sequence? Do any of the questions asked by Weiner change the airplane-fire-collapse sequence?

Let's see.......

These failures mean that we are short--even to this day--on conclusions about design decisions that may have contributed to the deaths of so many firefighters and workers on the top floors.

This press release was written in 2002 ... have any of the questions raised by Weiner been answered in the last nine years? You could write Mr. Weiner and ask him if he supports a new investigation.

The press release was to establish the National Construction Safety Team Act which in turn enabled another body to re-investigate with more power. (i.e. NIST)

As far as did they answer any of the questions. Well, since the whole problem stated in the memo was the dumping of evidence to begin with, I would have to say..... no they didn't.

reply to post by Nutter

The press release was to establish the National Construction Safety Team Act which in turn enabled another body to re-investigate with more power. (i.e. NIST)

As far as did they answer any of the questions. Well, since the whole problem stated in the memo was the dumping of evidence to begin with, I would have to say..... no they didn't.

Well, the NIST had extensive access to materials from the WTC.

Originally posted by SunnyDee
You evaded my question, making up excuses yourself. Why don't you tell us how, logistically, the new investigation will go? Who should take charge, where will the funding come from.....let's start there.

An excellent question, actually. For you to even begin your investigation you necessarily will need a chairman to organize the investigation, and this chairman will necessarily need to have an understanding of the material the investigation is covering. So far, the only one with a technical background who's actually doing any tangible research and who isn't mindlessly going around accusing everyone of being a secret agent is Niels Harrit, so he has my nomination. If you want to nominate Richard Gage instead, that's fine too. AE911truth can even put up a poll on their web site to ask people who should be your investigation chair and make it truly Democratic. Prison Planet and those 9/11 Pilots people can poll their visitors as well so there won't be any bias.

The thing is, why is it that I, as someone who thinks your conspiracy theories are bunk, have to be the one who explains how your investigation should proceed? You've been griping about "cruise missiles at the Pentagon" for the last ten years and haven't gotten anywhere, and I've just done more for your conspiracy movement in the last ten minutes simply by making suggestions off the top of my head.

Do you not think the original investigation took money? And who paid for it? Will they pay for another investigation that they don't want or feel they need? They got exactly the answers they were seeking from the first investigation, in fact, it was almost a waste of time, since most of the media gave us all the answers that came out of those reports from day one. Our unbiased media is just that good!

So why are all these web sites selling T-shirts, DVDs, baseball caps, etc etc etc if the proceeds weren't specifically toward getting another investigation rolling?

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
You click "edit" and correct the title typo.
If you can't figure that one out after 3400 posts, then I'm sure your take on 9/11 is pretty solid.

Ah, thank you. I genuinely didn't know that. I am giving you a star for your trouble.

Now that this is out of the way, WHY (rather then WHO) don't the conspiracy theorists have their own investigation?

Let's see.......

"These failures mean that we are short--even to this day--on conclusions about design decisions that may have contributed to the deaths of so many firefighters and workers on the top floors."

So you agree with the general airplane-fire-collapse scenario, you just think we didn't know enough in 2002 about design decisions to come to a tentative conclusion in 2002 about what contributed to the deaths in the upper floors, so a new investigation is warranted in 2002. Do I have the right?

The press release was to establish the National Construction Safety Team Act which in turn enabled another body to re-investigate with more power. (i.e. NIST)

Fantastic. Does Weiner support a new investigation, or are you just dragging a former Congressman's support for a ten year old law into this to give your calls for a new investigation credit by association? Because if he doesn't support a new investigation--if he's satisfied with the work that was done after 2002--it's a bit disingenuous to go bandying his name about. It's also a little disingenuous to link to a Democratic Congressman's press release about legislation as evidence of a Republican White House's thinking, as if everyone who votes for or signs a bill does so for exactly the same reasons, but that's another discussion entirely.

As far as did they answer any of the questions. Well, since the whole problem stated in the memo was the dumping of evidence to begin with, I would have to say..... no they didn't.

Really? Ten years later, we still don't know anything about the appropriate number of stairwells in large buildings or how to facilitate communication among rescue workers, because we threw away some rubble?

Originally posted by JibbyJedi

Who don't the conspiracy theorists have their OWN investigation?

Am I misreading the title or should it say, "WHY don't the conspiracy theorists have their own investigation?"

Dave.... why do you persist on berating and labeling people who question corrupt investigations of 9/11? Where are you on threads about fluoride, aspartame, illegal wars based on lies, corporate sponsored terrorism, and just plain standing up for the killing of innocent children?

/Instead you attack your fellow human beings trying to get to the bottom of the BS and perhaps get to a point of a better life for you and us all? Why aren't you helping us with that instead of going over the same old crap over and over?

/ Because if he helps us we might discover the truth, and he can't handle the truth.

The so called "truthers" have never been able to propose a detailed theory of how any demolitions would be done. They either lack the technical acumen or have no desire to face the obvious truth. This is why they say "I'm only questioning the OS because it's obviously wrong. I don't know how it was done but the buildings just didn't fall like they should have....etc." What this decrypts to is "I don't have a clue what happened but I'd like to pretend that I discovered a big plot by [insert name here] and am now seeking fellow travelers to validate my baseless claims."
Mainly I find that the "truthers" start with the premise that there was a complex plot and look for evidence to back up their predetermined conclusion. It is really sparse, to say the least. Their only hope for any sort of physical evidence of demolition was Jones discovering red paint and calling it "thermitic material." Jones' agenda is to stay in the public view and play the contrary genius and his work is suspect for many reasons [which I have discussed on multiple threads on ATS.] None of the truthers will admit that paint on thermite does nothing--that many tons of it found unreacted in the dust indicate that maybe it isn't so deadly afterall--that the speed of thermite reactions precludes a timed, multi-charge demolition sequence. With a 150 millisecond per floor clearance rate, it just isn't physically going to happen. Heat transfer won't let it. Given the structure and the mechanism of collapse, failure had to occur at the connections between the outer columns and the floor trusses; a weak joint to begin with. To shear these joints with high explosives would have really been obvious [and difficult to set up and time] and there was no such event recorded by anyone.
All the other theories about DEW, nukes, missiles, etc. are so far off base as to be more humorous and entertaining than anything. If you wish to seek out disinformation agents or those who escaped from the local "Home for the Baffled," proponents of these theories would make a good starting point.

John Farmer who was part of the 911 Commission said it himself.

"At some level of government..at some point in time...there was an agreement to not tell the truth about what happened."

The FBI has even agreed that Gage's work is backed by "Thorough research and Analysis". But refuse to investigate....because as it's has been said within the Bureau that any investigation into 911 and especially Israel is "Career Suicide".






With the entire purpose of 911 according to the PNAC was to get us into these wars and with Iran being now threatened...it's already too late for an independent investigation to make any real difference.

The Fascists wanted these middle east wars and they've got them now...

Mission Accomplished !!

reply to post by GoodOlDave


We have been investigating it independently for the past 10 years, the best we can do is work with what is publicly available, which by now isn't much. It's kind of like investigating why the $10 on the bureau went missing when the only people in the house are your spouse who doesn't need the money, and your kid who does. No evidence to make a strong case, but you just know who is guilty by default, proving it in a court of law is another matter.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Nutter

 

The press release was to establish the National Construction Safety Team Act which in turn enabled another body to re-investigate with more power. (i.e. NIST)

As far as did they answer any of the questions. Well, since the whole problem stated in the memo was the dumping of evidence to begin with, I would have to say..... no they didn't.

Well, the NIST had extensive access to materials from the WTC.

Obviously not all of it or there wouldn't have been a need to institute a new Act now would there?