Study: growing up in bad neighborhoods has a devastating impact

I can never understand why they conduct studies to point out the obvious??

Originally posted by Redwing48
Being poor doesn't lower a person's intellectual abilities or make them more prone to criminal activity. That's an excuse. The problem is more endemic to children not being taught by their parents any kind of work ethics or the difference between right and wrong. It's much easier to steal from others, sell drugs, or draw welfare benefits. Why work 40hrs a week when you don't have to? When you find yourself in trouble you can always blame society and play the "victim".

A public school education is available to anyone that's willing to attend school and actually apply themselves. A college education is no different. There are numerous grants, scholarships, and loans available to anyone that's willing to take the time to apply. Libraries are free to everyone. If a person wants to learn there's no one stopping them from doing so. Being poor is a state of mind.

You have absolutely zero grasp about the negative psychological impact that living in poverty has on a person, especially a child. You have people that make their way out, but for every 1 of those you have 20 that are screwed up before they're six years old.

I would love to see you walk through the shoes of some of the inner city kids that I have worked with. Kids that aren't taken care of at home, with no support system in place like non poor children have. Some were abused physically and sexually. Fathers in and out of jail, or not there at all, a mother that works two jobs with nothing to show. You would not last 6 months before cracks began to show in your psyche.

It is very easy for these kids to go the wrong route of the drug dealer and the welfare queen when that's ALL they know.

how do I get paid to carry out such blindingly obvious studies- the problem is those in deprived neighborhoods are more likely to come from broken homes and have parent (s) who couldn't care less how their kids get on at school.

Oh yeah, obligatory racial inclusion, but why do they limit it to white v black, why not talk about asians?

Originally posted by SPACEYstranger
reply to post by Maxmars

 

This is common knowledge in my field, psychology. Socio-economic status is directly linked to health, wellbeing, and opportunity.

If you are born into a low SES family, your chances of living the american dream are el-zilcho.

There are some sad statistics out there. To me, this is more then enough justification for the top 1% to come back to reality and help the rest of the country. (and, indeed, the world)

I know three Bentlys is better then two, but....

At the end of the day, Robin Hood policies will not solve the problem. There needs to be serious societal, political, and economic reform in this country to reverse the damage that what, over a century of systemic inequality has produced?

reply to post by Redwing48


Its not about "crime", or an "excuse". Clearly you say that out of utter ignorance...

Its about a persons life span reduced by 20 years, just for being born into a poor family. Its about having to make the choice between food or going to the hospital. Its about 1/4th of americans being in the lowest income bracket, and substantially more ethnic minorities without university or collage degrees. Its about Ethnic minorities in the States having 80% higher hypertension then the rest of the country.

Its about the 20% gap between whites that have health insurance, and blacks that dont.

Its about the cumulative disadvantages that begin to build up as soon as a person is born into the low-ses world (which is not most of America)
roa.sagepub.com...

You must think that people born into a bad neighbourhood can overcome the odds with enough effort? Then, you are seriously misinformed about the reality of poverty. Very few people ever manage to overcome the insurmountable adversity that begins to threaten your very existence before you have even been born.

a little class and intelligence go a long way

There are some funny Experiments called:

"The Rat Park"

afir they was created in the '80!

The "Objects" was the Rats who was living in a good, mixed or in a bad Environment,
for everybody who is interested in Sociology i recommend Google

I grew up in a bad neighborhood, and was a bad kid.

I was in and out of jails, and other institutions until I was 15. I committed a felony then. Between the felony, and my habitual offender status I was placed in what my state calls a "serious offender program." Mind you, my felony was stealing bicycles. I was not actually charged with theft due to evidence and instead was charged with theft by receiving over $2500, which was a felony. It was only 2 bicycles, but they were valued at $1500-$2000 a piece. Even though the crime was fairly absurd, the next year I spent in the serious offender program, the next step to prison for juveniles, was not.

I realized then that I needed to make a change in my life or I was going to end up in prison. I recieved my GED at the program when I was 16 because even a small infraction at school could result in violations that just might have seen me in prison.

I had the opportunity to go to college soon after, and like I always do I procrastinated and missed the opportunity. I soon had kids and spent the next 10 years trying to provide for them and be a better father than what I had so my boys would not end up in the situations and positions I did as a kid.

My whole point about all of this has to do with the the comments about work and education. I recently had to go to court because my boys deadbeat mother decided to paint me as the bad guy. When I mentioned in court that I was going to school and trying to earn a degree and better my life, the court officials literally laughed at me and mocked me. They stated I was wasting my time, and just getting further into debt by pursuing an education and I should be focused on other things.

Focused on what? A minimum wage McDonald's job? With all the talk about government assistance, and people taking personal responsibility to better their lives and change their situations, the fact that in the courts eyes, education was a waste of time, but a minimum wage job, and being dependant on government assistance for the rest of my life wasn't, was shocking to say the least.

Its not about "body slamming the rich" or "robin hood". Its about raising the margional tax rate on those corperations that payed 0% taxation last year... and the hundreds of thousands of multi-millionairs who can easily afford to relinquish some of the money they will never spend in the interest of the greater good.

Of course throwing money at the issue wont make it go away, but really... the problem here is money. Some people have way too much, some people don't have nearly enough.

Impact of income maintenance on low birth weight: evidence from the Gary Experiment.
Kehrer BH, Wolin CM.
Abstract
Birth weight is a useful index of infant health. Low birth weight (5.5 pounds or less) is associated with high rates of infant mortality and morbidity. Low birth weight is also associated with low socioeconomic status. The question arises, therefore, whether income transfers can affect the incidence of low birth weight among the poor. The impact of an expanded income support plan on low birth weight was analyzed using data on 404 infants born to participants in the Gary Income Maintenance Experiment. A significant health response was observed for children of women who face high-risk pregnancies.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Supplementing the income of pregnant woman of low SES significantly reduced risks of low birth weight. Just a little extra money, and these women were consistently abel to have more healthy children, that would likely overcome infant mortality, live beyond the age of 6, and have much better health throughout their lives. Not that they wouldn't still experience the cumulative disadvantages that come with being of low SES.

A similar study in Alsace, France, showed analogous results.
www.sciencedirect.com...

Look! throwing money at the issue worked!

Divorcing health and opportunity from depravation is moronic. This mindset that we cant tax the rich because we would "chase away" the job creators is class warfare in action. Its sickening to think that those with too much cant afford to help people who are literally dying.

And if that how you think, then i hate your guts and i hope you burn in some sort of eternal hellfire.

Must disagree with that. I find that those coming from the poorer backgrounds, who live in the bad areas because they can't afford rich stuff...like me for example..work much much much harder and strive to get out of the poverty trap.

Blaaaah..ofc there are loads who don't...

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Redwing48

 

Spoken like someone who never lived in those conditions. Want me to take pictures of our local schools in trouble? I can tell you right now, it is not a learning environment.
When the kids have to walk past metal detectors to get in, and police have to hang around the school when school lets out to handle the violence and gang fights.
Not to mention all the drug dealers and gang members these kids have to walk by to get to an empty house because their single mother is working two minimum wage jobs.

And then people wonder why they want to drop out....

I really hate to tell you this, but I grew up in a neighborhood and went to a school just like the ones you described.. Those are obstacles to overcome, not excuses for personal failure.

I've never dealt drugs,robbed, murdered or raped anyone, nor have I done time. My single mother taught me the difference between right and wrong. She also informed me that no one owed me anything in this life. If I wanted something, I needed to work for it like she did.

I graduated high school and went on to obtain two college degrees. Was it easy? No it wasn't. I had to fight practically every day to get my diploma. I had to take out loans to pay for my college which I'm still paying back.

Am I rich today? No, I'm not. Is it societies fault that I don't have everything I want in life? No, it's mine.

reply to post by Redwing48


What you mention is the key component in the entire arguement, an involved caring parent.

I for one did not have that. I had a single mother who for whatever reason was largely uninvolved in my development or education about life, and I was largely left to my own devices.

Since I was able to behave in the manner I was with no fear of repercussions, and since I basically had not be taught differently, my development and life went down a decidedly different path than that of yours.

That is the one of the primary reasons I suffered years of neglect and abuse by my kids mother, because they needed someone to care about how they developed and I was at times seemingly the only one who did. Without my influence they may have began down the same path, and with my ever diminishing ability to have that influence, they still may.

Originally posted by illuminatislave


You have absolutely zero grasp about the negative psychological impact that living in poverty has on a person, especially a child. You have people that make their way out, but for every 1 of those you have 20 that are screwed up before they're six years old.

No, I guess I don't.. I just grew up in an inner city ghetto. What would I know about gangs, drugs, prostitution, or murder. Now what about yourself? Are you one of those bleeding heart liberals that grew up in the suburbs and never went hungry a single day in your life? Never had to fight just to go to school or play outside like normal kids do?

I would love to see you walk through the shoes of some of the inner city kids that I have worked with. Kids that aren't taken care of at home, with no support system in place like non poor children have. Some were abused physically and sexually. Fathers in and out of jail, or not there at all, a mother that works two jobs with nothing to show. You would not last 6 months before cracks began to show in your psyche.

Been there and done that. Being abused or neglected is not an excuse to commit crimes against others. If anything, it should motivate you to do better and show more respect for the rights of others. Anything else is a cop out.

It is very easy for these kids to go the wrong route of the drug dealer and the welfare queen when that's ALL they know.

They deal drugs because it's easy money, not because they have to. How many ever put that money they make to good use like supporting their families, getting better living accommodations, or going to college? Instead they buy fancy cars, gold jewelry, expensive cell phones, and drugs to support their own habits.

The bottom line here people is Personal Accountability. Nobody makes you commit crimes, stay poor, or remain ignorant and uneducated but yourself. It's about the choices you make in life, and about who you want to be and what you want to stand for. You're mother isn't the blame, rich people aren't the blame, society isn't the blame. To find out who is at the bottom of it all; just look in the mirror. There's your culprit!

Originally posted by Redwing48
They deal drugs because it's easy money, not because they have to. How many ever put that money they make to good use like supporting their families, getting better living accommodations, or going to college? Instead they buy fancy cars, gold jewelry, expensive cell phones, and drugs to support their own habits.

I have to disagree with this, at least to an extent. While that may be true for many, it is definitely not true for all.

I had a long story typed out, but I believe due to the content may be against the T&C and decided not to post it.

But, I can definitely say the same is not true for all, and I'll gladly send you the post in a pm if you would like.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster

I have to disagree with this, at least to an extent. While that may be true for many, it is definitely not true for all.

I had a long story typed out, but I believe due to the content may be against the T&C and decided not to post it.

But, I can definitely say the same is not true for all, and I'll gladly send you the post in a pm if you would like.

I'm not saying that some don't try to extricate themselves from their situation, but the sad truth is that number is very low. I had many opportunities to take the same shortcuts, but I knew in the long run I'd end up like most of the people who did, either in jail or dead. The only real solution was hard work and then more hard work on top of that. Life is full of injustices no doubt, but that's just the way it is, and always has been since the beginnings of time.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by SPACEYstranger

 

Try that. Then watch as the successful people leave this country.

The poor are poor by their own choice, essentially.

Body slamming the rich might feel good, but it won't encourage them to stay here.

BUT WHO CARES! Lets take back what is ours! WE WILL BE FREE! GLORY!

edit on 4-10-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

really? you seriously think people living in the ghetto are there by choice, and that--if they wanted to--they could waltz out and become millionaires and billionaires?

what we've got here is...a man who has been brainwashed. single mothers with two kids working two jobs just to cover food and rent definitely live like that because they choose it.

have you been sniffing glue?

the less fortunate people have fewer opportunities and often face discrimination. the cycle repeats, and you've been trained to think that they're poor because they deserve it.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by Redwing48

 

What you mention is the key component in the entire arguement, and involved caring parent.

I for one did not have that. I had a single mother who for whatever reason was largely uninvolved in my development or education about life, and I was largely left to my own devices.

Since I was able to behave in the manner I was with no fear of repercussions, and since I basically had not be taught differently, my development and life went down a decidedly different path than that of yours.

Exactly. How you are raised and what you are taught makes a huge difference. I grew up believing I didn't have a chance. There was no point in going to high school because I couldn't go to college. No one told me financial aid was available, not ONCE! The only thing that kept me from giving up on life and following in my mothers footsteps was how desperately I wanted a different life. I probably would have ended up a drug addict had I not hated the world in which I was raised so much. Unfortunately I had no clue how to go about doing things differently. No one told me to stay in school, in fact sometimes my mother would get so paranoid that I was going to rat her out, she wouldn't allow me to attend school. No one ever told me how to succeed in life, no one taught me how to manage money or how to prepare for a job interview. I was clueless and had to learn it all the hard way through trial and error. It took years to figure things out.

I am far from what someone would considered successful now. In fact I am raising 3 kids on whats considered to be below poverty level. Yet, with the life I have now, I feel wealthy.

Originally posted by Redwing48
The bottom line here people is Personal Accountability. Nobody makes you commit crimes, stay poor, or remain ignorant and uneducated but yourself. It's about the choices you make in life, and about who you want to be and what you want to stand for. You're mother isn't the blame, rich people aren't the blame, society isn't the blame. To find out who is at the bottom of it all; just look in the mirror. There's your culprit!

You have know clue, really its pathetic ignorance. People can't make good choices when when they don't have the knowledge to make them. If it wasn't for the pure hatred and the fact that I am more stubborn than any one else I know, I probably would have resigned to defeat long ago. Most of the kids I grew up with were so beat down by the time they hit the age of 10 there was no fight left in them. NO HOPE. Do you know what that is like? To truley believe you have no other choice!?

reply to post by Maxmars



I grew up in extreme poverty. My family had 9 children and with our parents lived in a single wide trailer. We never had clothes bought for us, we always wore donated clothing. My father was an abusive alcoholic and my mother was neglectful. But my brothers decided there was something better out there and joined the military and went to college. In fact, 8 of us went to college. The one who did not go to college is a housewife.

To use the excuse that someone comes from a bad neighborhood is really saying they don't want to look for opportunities out there. I have seen children who come from families who did not live in bad areas turn out badly.

If you did not know there were opportunities then that is different, but a child does not know so the adults in their lives should love them enough to show them. I have seen that, children who look at the world and their parents tell them there is no hope. Loving parents don't do that.

Originally posted by calstorm
You have know clue, really its pathetic ignorance. People can't make good choices when when they don't have the knowledge to make them. If it wasn't for the pure hatred and the fact that I am more stubborn than any one else I know, I probably would have resigned to defeat long ago. Most of the kids I grew up with were so beat down by the time they hit the age of 10 there was no fight left in them. NO HOPE. Do you know what that is like? To truley believe you have no other choice!?

If you lacked the information to make informed choices, you should have sought it out. The public library or your school counselor would have been a great place to start. Rather than make excuses and blame others for your ignorance, accept some responsibility for it.

People always have a choice whether they choose to acknowledge it or not. Sometimes it's just easier to blame someone or something else for our own shortcomings..