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Study: growing up in bad neighborhoods has a devastating impact

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posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
right, but you can give it your all and still get nowhere. those college students got degrees, and only 28% actually got a job that requires a degree.

it isn't their fault that the economy is taking a crap. hard work and dedication do not guarantee success.

You're an intelligent person, so I don't need to tell you life offers no guarantees of happiness.You have the right to pursue happiness, but not the right to have it.
edit on 4-10-2011 by Redwing48 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Redwing48
All the thing you cite are directly attributable to lifestyle choices. Your life is not instantly shortened by 20 years due to poverty. That's BS! A few healthy choices like: not smoking, lowering their sodium intake, eating fewer calories, and regularly exercising would not only lower their blood pressure, but would increase their life expectancy by at least a decade.


Lol, thats all i have to read to know that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Funny how a person can say so much, yet know so little.

Its is a FACT that you can factor out all "risky behaviours", and the difference in lifespan still exists.

You think people working 2 jobs, with kids, living in a horrible neighbourhood can afford to go for a run at night? Sounds to me like your living in a petty fairytale.

Come off it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... df

This isn't even a new problem. There is a direct correlation between the height of Obelisks in graveyards and lifespan across glasgow, scotland. The rich are living longer, throughout history, because they are the ones to whom health is afforded. So, while rich people race dune-buggies through their 1000 acres of personal forest, the rest of us are doomed to die early because we "didn't try hard enough".

Modern corporate capitalism sure is fun! might as well go back to despotism, because the outcome is essentially the same.

Of course, I'm sure you have an intelligent, moralistic, and offensive explanation for that! But, quite frankly, i dont want to hear it, or anything else you happen to make up on the spot. Speak out of fact, if you want to be taken seriously.

Just keep leading a self-agrandizing life, blaming the poor (and, consequently, the ethnic minorities) for the problems that they have clearly bestowed upon themselves.


edit on 4-10-2011 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by Redwing48
 

which brings me back to my disagreement with your statement:


The poor are poor by their own choice, essentially.

i merely wish to point out that this is not always true. life can screw someone over irregardless of the work they do, and this has a higher chance of happening in poor neighborhoods fraught with drugs and violence.

we should attempt to end this self-perpetuating cycle, and throwing cash at it isn't the solution, but we should atleast seek to change the situation.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Redwing48
 

which brings me back to my disagreement with your statement:


The poor are poor by their own choice, essentially.

i merely wish to point out that this is not always true. life can screw someone over irregardless of the work they do, and this has a higher chance of happening in poor neighborhoods fraught with drugs and violence.

we should attempt to end this self-perpetuating cycle, and throwing cash at it isn't the solution, but we should atleast seek to change the situation.


Why are the neighborhoods fraught with drugs and violence in the first place?



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Redwing48
 

which brings me back to my disagreement with your statement:


The poor are poor by their own choice, essentially.

i merely wish to point out that this is not always true. life can screw someone over irregardless of the work they do, and this has a higher chance of happening in poor neighborhoods fraught with drugs and violence.

we should attempt to end this self-perpetuating cycle, and throwing cash at it isn't the solution, but we should atleast seek to change the situation.
It's like trying to help an alcoholic or drug addict get sober.. Until they've had enough and are ready to make a change, you can't help them. The cycle of poverty is self-perpetuating due to personal attitudes of entitlement. Nobody wants a hand anymore, they want a hand out because you owe it to them.
edit on 4-10-2011 by Redwing48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Redwing48
reply to post by ThaLoccster
 
I've heard the same sob sister story a million times, and frankly it's just a cop out. Poor me, Poor me.. Society made me what I am, and now it's their responsibility to support me and excuse my irresponsible behavior.

Talk to any convict, drug addict, or low-life drifter and you'll hear the same spiel. If you lack an education, go get one, if you don't make enough money, find a second job. It's really that simple. The hardest part of it all though is getting up out of your chair and doing something to make it all happen.



I'm seriously trying to figure out if you are just a bigot, or naive, or a combination of both.

I personally am not looking for pity, and honestly I don't need it. I don't blame anyone for where I am now, and definitely not "society." I am in college, I make money, and while my situation isn't the greatest that it could be I understand I am where I am today largely because of my own actions.

When I was a child, that was not the case at all. Not until I was older and developed critical thinking skills, and the ability to utilize them was I able to understand the weight of my actions. Luckily for me it was before it was too late. For many others, that is often not the case. By the time they realize those things, it is the prison sentence, or drug addiction that helped them figure it out.

Nothing you mention is as black and white as your text on the screen. You don't just "go get an education" anymore than you "just get a second job."

Tell that to the millions of people who are unemployed. The ones with college degrees especially. Stand in their faces and tell them they are lazy and not applying themselves. I all but guarantee your bigotry will get you a black eye, if not worse.

You claim to have a college education, but you seem to lack any education to understand the points you mention. You do not berate, ignore, or be largely uninvolved in a childs life and expect them to grow up to be solid well-rounded individuals because "they want to."

Children are like clay. They are shaped and molded by their parents or guardians and if they are exposed to constant negativity or actions, behaviors or experiences that are detrimental for a childs overall well-being it is definitely going to affect how they develop over time.

Without proper guidance and structure you would not be where you are today, and you said as much yourself. The only reason you have the "want to" to have a better life is because as you said, you mother helped instill those values in you and helped lead you down the right path. If your parents had been the deadbeats that many parents are today your situation would be much different. You may have ended up a well-rounded individual, but if so it would probably be because someone took an interest in you and tried to help you become a better person.

Seriously, you need to step off your high horse for one second and understand the realities of life and how those realities shape people and influence their decisions. Perspective is key in understanding any problem, you seem completely unable to understand any other but your own.

I actually know quite a few convicts, drug addicts, and low-life drifters. To be honest, not a single one that I can think of blames "society" for their problems. They all generally know the key moment in their lives that sent them down the path they ended up on. For most of them, it is because the people who were supposed to be there and take responsiblity in their lives weren't there. I have yet to see one say "my life would have been different if all those rich people would have just given me some money, but since they didn't I had to steal, see it's actually the rich peoples fault for not helping me."

They all understand their own personal responsibility for their actions. But, in everyone's life there is blame to be laid on someone for how their life goes, good or bad. The only reason you grew up to have the life and values you claim you do is because your mother laid the foundation for that, and took responsibility in her life for yours. She is to blame for your actions, even though they are positive (or so you say).



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by SPACEYstranger

Lol, thats all i have to read to know that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Funny how a person can say so much, yet know so little.

Its is a FACT that you can factor out all "risky behaviours", and the difference in lifespan still exists.
Show me a valid study that demonstrates that fact. I don't think you'll find one personally.


You think people working 2 jobs, with kids, living in a horrible neighbourhood can afford to go for a run at night? Sounds to me like your living in a petty fairytale.
If they actually worked two jobs I doubt they'd live in a neighborhood where they couldn't go out for a late night jog.


Of course, I'm sure you have an intelligent, moralistic, and offensive explanation for that! But, quite frankly, i dont want to hear it, or anything else you happen to make up on the spot. Speak out of fact, if you want to be taken seriously.
I suggest you do likewise. Because you say it, doesn't make it so.. LOL


Just keep leading a self-agrandizing life, blaming the poor (and, consequently, the ethnic minorities) for the problems that they have clearly bestowed upon themselves.
I'm not rich, but I'm not making excuses or blaming others for it either. Life's hard, then you die..



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 

Maybe if they grew up being taught to do the right thing, work hard, stay in school (if you can), be helpful to your neighbor, don't do drugs, those things and other things, maybe...

But happens, you know, is parents don't pay attention and kids don't either. Nothing gets fixed if nobody cares. They get so used to living that way, that they can't see their own hand in it.

I like charity and outreach, I just don't think stealing from the successful to give to the dropouts is the solution. The dropouts don't want to succeed. Throwing money at them is like burning it.

I read that the UK is interested in putting prisoners to work. I think it's not a bad idea. Maybe htey can do something like that here. Prisoners are a money hog for sure. Is a related topic because I'm pretty sure a lot of low-income end up in prisons. Then they protest. Most of hte protesters in the UK that were arrested were repeat offenders. Does that surprise anyone?

Me and you and others really are not that different. We put varying amounts of blame on different people. But we need to stop the blaming and just move forward. Kick the dirt and then keep one foot in front of hte other. Get a job and hold it. Do the responsible thing. Educate yourself. Stop throwing your life away. Don't expect anyone else to do this for you.

My prayers go to the children.
edit on 4-10-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Redwing48
 


clearly you failed to take into account the previous studies that i presented. Why should i humour someone with no social conscious, who speaks out of hate?

Just look for yourself. The Whitehall studies. Smoking is a detriment to health, but socio-exonomic status is an overarching moderator. So, the rich can afford to smoke, maintain their health, and still live a long life.

Its not about smoking, its not about each individual and his or her choices. Its much larger then that. And if you cant take it upon yourself to discover the facts and realize that, then you truly are a self-righteous idiot.

www.ucl.ac.uk...

There ya go, mr. social justice. I hope you get kicked to the curb by life, and realize that your living a fantasy. Maybe then, somebody like you will spit in your face.
edit on 4-10-2011 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Why would this be 'breaking alternative news'?
Apart from which it's akin to saying 'if you jump into the sea you will get wet'. Another expensive study pointing out the blinkin obvious.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster

I'm seriously trying to figure out if you are just a bigot, or naive, or a combination of both.
I'm neither. I prefer to think of myself as a realist. I don't make excuses for my personal shortcomings, nor do I excuse others from the responsibility of their own.


I personally am not looking for pity, and honestly I don't need it. I don't blame anyone for where I am now, and definitely not "society." I am in college, I make money, and while my situation isn't the greatest that it could be I understand I am where I am today largely because of my own actions.
I'm glad for you. Personal accountability is the key to understanding who and what you really are. Excuses are just that..excuses.


When I was a child, that was not the case at all. Not until I was older and developed critical thinking skills, and the ability to utilize them was I able to understand the weight of my actions. Luckily for me it was before it was too late. For many others, that is often not the case. By the time they realize those things, it is the prison sentence, or drug addiction that helped them figure it out.
Do you excuse a person's antisocial acts or laziness because they had a tough life? Get real.. I'm not Jesus Christ and neither are you. We live in a society that has laws that govern acceptable behavior.


Nothing you mention is as black and white as your text on the screen. You don't just "go get an education" anymore than you "just get a second job."
Like I said: you don't just go out and get them.. you have to get off your butt and make some type of real attempt at obtaining them.


Tell that to the millions of people who are unemployed. The ones with college degrees especially. Stand in their faces and tell them they are lazy and not applying themselves. I all but guarantee your bigotry will get you a black eye, if not worse.
I doubt it. I have no problem speaking my mind nor defending my position should the need arise. I've yet to get that black eye.

It's second nature to throw out the word "Bigot: whenever someone disagrees with you, isn't it? Why even bother with logical debating points when you have a trump card like that up your sleeve..


You claim to have a college education, but you seem to lack any education to understand the points you mention. You do not berate, ignore, or be largely uninvolved in a childs life and expect them to grow up to be solid well-rounded individuals because "they want to."
I expect people to behave like civilized beings whether they had a "tough" childhood or not. Is that really asking so much?


Seriously, you need to step off your high horse for one second and understand the realities of life and how those realities shape people and influence their decisions. Perspective is key in understanding any problem, you seem completely unable to understand any other but your own.
I have no high horse to sit upon as you put it. I simply deal in facts and realities unlike yourself. I don't excuse people of their responsibilities because their Mommy didn't love them enough or they didn't get that train set they wanted oh so many years ago..


I actually know quite a few convicts, drug addicts, and low-life drifters. To be honest, not a single one that I can think of blames "society" for their problems. They all generally know the key moment in their lives that sent them down the path they ended up on. For most of them, it is because the people who were supposed to be there and take responsiblity in their lives weren't there. I have yet to see one say "my life would have been different if all those rich people would have just given me some money, but since they didn't I had to steal, see it's actually the rich peoples fault for not helping me."
I've met very few who didn't blame everyone else for their problems. I used to work with them, so I know of what I speak. The recidivism rate is about 80% for most convicts, and the relapse rates for alcoholics and drug addicts are even higher. Maybe one in two thousand stay sober for longer than six months. It's sad.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov ...

Franklin Chang Díaz, PH.D in applied plasma physics, a previous astronaut and founder of Ad Astra Rocket Company, came to america with $50 and a dream. His parents were poor. If that man can come to america with a few dollars and no clue from another country, barely being able to speak a word of english, and in 9 years go on to get his PH.D and become an astronaut, leaving NASA in 2005 (I think) to build his fusion-hybrid propulsion technology, then nobody has a right to complain. This man proves what is possible, if you've got the drive and ability to succeed. Granted, most people aren't going to get a PHD and become an astronaut and found a company to build a fusion rocket, but people can still do a lot given the circumstances. Anyway....

People CAN overcome and DO. It's just that people like to make excuses. It's easier.
edit on 4-10-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by SPACEYstranger
reply to post by Redwing48
 


clearly you failed to take into account the previous studies that i presented. Why should i humour someone with no social conscious, who speaks out of hate?
How condescending of you to speak to me in such a manner. Now I'm a hater because I disagree with you.. How immature.


Just look for yourself. The Whitehall studies. Smoking is a detriment to health, but socio-exonomic status is an overarching moderator. So, the rich can afford to smoke, maintain their health, and still live a long life.
So you're envious of them? Why smoke in the first place? Do them one better and quit or never start in the first place.


There ya go, mr. social justice. I hope you get kicked to the curb by life, and realize that your living a fantasy. Maybe then, somebody like you will spit in your face.
edit on 4-10-2011 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)
How droll and commonplace of you to express such hurtful sentiments towards someone you don't even know..



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by Redwing48
 


You can be sure that i do hate you, and everything you stand for. I dont need to know you to wish you ill fortune.

The worst type of person is that with no sense of social justice. You cant point to yourself as the great example of accomplishment, but that is completely beside the fact that there are hundreds of millions of americans out there dying because of mindsets like yours.

There will always be cases where a person can overcome the odds, but pointing to those special cases is no way to approach an issue involving 500 million americans and 7 billion human beings, who are just as entitled to a good life as you or any other person living far, far, far beyond their means.

So go ahead and take a condescending tone, sit back, and tell us all how great you are. Personally, i think your human garbage, and I can very safely assume that I'm not alone.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by SPACEYstranger
 
I'm deeply hurt by the fact that you and possibly others, find me so offensive that your hearts are suddenly filled with hate for me. What ever happened to those lofty ideals of tolerance and brotherhood? For that matter, Where is the Love?


edit on 4-10-2011 by Redwing48 because: correct spelling



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by SPACEYstranger
 

I think most poor people who HAVE succeed would feel insulted by your comments here.

You basically said that people are entitled to a good life.

People who have succeeded WORKED HARD. NONE of it was given to them!

We're not entitled to a good life. We EARN a good life. Period.

My cousin was not given a good job and a wife. He sweated bullets. It was HARD.

My brother went to college full-time AND worked 30 hour weeks. None of it was free.

You saying we deserve it is what has caused the welfare state to cripple our budget.

People have to take responsibility for themselves and stop blaming others.

There're not enough people on the planet to help you. Get up and MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I grew up around complainers and losers and dropouts. They were a parade of excuses.

I just want to kill this worm before it infects anybody here. NOTHING IS FREE!
edit on 4-10-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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dont believe it for a second. Every person has a choice. it may be harder but it can be done if they really want too many use it as an excuse.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by illuminatislave

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Maxmars
 


.



Exactly. People want to live in denial, and want to blame the poor for everything, when in reality most of these kids don't have a chance from the moment they take their first breath.

.



that right there is the problem. The fault lies with the 'parents' who chose to bring kids into this world when they're ill-equipped to have them. Sure as hell isn't the governments,mine,nor your fault.Or problem. It's about personal responsibility.That's it. I'm sick of hearing about how it's everyone elses fault. You can't afford to raise kids KNOWING you live in poverty then don't fricken have them. It's that simple.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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They seriously needs a study to verify that??? WTF???
Obviously poverty is the worst form of structural violence created by humanity for gods sake.
edit on 4-10-2011 by greenCo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by nightstalker78
 


I know people like that. And they even openly admit to having a child or even another child for that tax credit. It's a shame, no, not a shame but disgusting that there are people like that. It's selfish thinking because they aren't thinking of the future for their children.

I believe that everyone has a chance and it so happens that some people have to work harder at it than others. Fact. Poor people from bad neighborhoods that succeed in life try harder than those from the same background, neighborhood, etc do.

I also believe it starts at home. I have friends that are inner city school teachers and they would agree with that statement %100


edit on 4-10-2011 by kimish because: (no reason given)



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