The Morality Of Saving People From Hell

Originally posted by balon0
Same thing as Hell. You know whatever your friends are doing will lead them to Hell so wouldn't you want them to stop?

NO

There is no one today that is unaware of religious beliefs - heaven and hell - - or where to find info on it if they are so inclined.

I do not need to be solicited.

A bear in a supermarket has nothing to do with a belief - - that I choose or reject.

Originally posted by DaughterOfARevolver
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

How much will it really bother you to say "not intrusted"??? My hubby grew up a train wreck Morman, turned? ??? can't recall, turned Christian, anyways I remember a when we first started dating he mentioned something about my soul, and I not a believer laughed a bit, it depends whom you ask from. his point of veiw it was both ethical and moral- hes concerned. From my point it was a little sickening, adorable in a way. I have to say as a non-christain, preaching ect ect I've come to veiw religion more as a organization like wal-mart rather than moral/ethical and feel no ill will.

Mormons are Christians.

One of the best organizations I've ever been involved with - - - in my 60 year search for god. Ending result being Atheist.

If I ever find a non-religious group organized like the Mormons - - - sign me up immediately.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Are those people in your life who try to convert you to save you from Hell moral and correct in their actions?

If one sincerely believes in Hell and cares about you enough to try to save you from it, they must be a moral and caring person acting in the right, otherwise to let you perish would make them an amoral sociopath.

However, the more someone tries to save you, the more of an undesirable creep they are perceived to be. Religious conversion is often unwanted.

Is the attempt to save others from Hell a moral action or is it an unethical action?

Very tricky question, whether to characterise an insane person's actions as moral/ethical immoral/unethical.

Frankly I doubt anything meaningful will come out of attempting to answer such a question. The insanes' actions are simply insane.

Yes, anyone who believes in an entity that judges human beings after their death based on their belief or lack there of in it when they were alive and grants eternal reward or punishment accordingly and attempts to "save" others from such an eternal punishment all the while not having an iota of evidence for the existence of this exact entity is insane.

Originally posted by balon0
I like to look at it this way.

Lets say your friend is going to get some groceries at the local supermarket. As he/she is going, you hear on the radio, " BREAKING NEWS: Wild bear breaks into local supermarket." Wouldn't you call your friend and tell him/her to not go there?

Same thing as Hell. You know whatever your friends are doing will lead them to Hell so wouldn't you want them to stop?

In your example both you and your friend know of existence of the supermarket and bears. The only thing you believe without having direct knowledge of is an announcement from a source you and your friend both consider trustworthy.

Check again if your analogy applies to hell.

A better analogy for hell is you hearing a voice in your head that states that there is a unicorn on an invisible patch intersecting the road to the supermarket and you "warning" your friend about it or probably blocking their driveway to "save" them from the unicorn.

Whats up with all the posts talking about changing someone's beliefs when nowhere in the OP does it say that. Oh I'm goin to bash religion so I get stars. The OP says save someone from hell, which could be achieved very many different ways without tryin to change the person's beliefs so all you God haters go find a corner till u put ur eye out

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
Whats up with all the posts talking about changing someone's beliefs when nowhere in the OP does it say that. Oh I'm goin to bash religion so I get stars. The OP says save someone from hell, which could be achieved very many different ways without tryin to change the person's beliefs so all you God haters go find a corner till u put ur eye out

Ah - - you'd first have to believe in hell wouldn't you?

If you don't believe in hell - - NO - - should be sufficient for anyone thinking you should be saved.

NO - - is usually ignored as a non-word by believers.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
If one sincerely believes in Hell and cares about you enough to try to save you from it, they must be a moral and caring person acting in the right, otherwise to let you perish would make them an amoral sociopath.

According to Christian biblical scripture, each person is responsible for their own salvation. Regardless about what other people may think or do, the individual who is committing the sin is personally responsible. When it comes to Christian practices outside of the Catholic Church, you will find people practice the act of 'witnessing'. Even though the bible says its not a Christian's responsibility for another one's salvation, Born Again Christians and Protestants will attempt to convert non-believers anyway. Some Christian groups didn't get God's memo.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Is the attempt to save others from Hell a moral action or is it an unethical action?

Forced conversion 'can become' unethical and illogical. Loosely showing someone the path to salvation, without stalking and harassing, is a more civil approach to bringing people into the fold. Once someone rejects the offer of enlightenment, the individual making the introduction should say, "Okay, they will find God on their own time."

Forced conversion = unethical.
Loose introduction to religion = ethical.

reply to post by Annee


Dude he's talking about saving someone else so yes the person doing the saving OBVIOUSLY BELIEVES whats your point? A believer trying to save a non believer from hell is not pushing his religion onto him, just teaching him to love more and be a better person

Streets of gold .Eternal life even in death ,all knowledge known . singing prases for a billion billion years .
no sickness young forever ,No children no old people .
Sounding good yet? ok well no beer no football no grass no trees and again singing for ever.
sounding even better? no? well how about teh gold part i am sue you love gold .
gold streets well two things ,One your DEAD it has no value two being the streets are paved with it kind like asphalt hu? how much of that do you have in your pocket?
A blade of grass is what will be worth well your dead what is the point to money?
So this is what you desire after you die hu? for a trillion years at that ?
sounding good yet? no thanks I dont care if heaven is real or not hanging around as a ghost for a 100 years maybe . travel the unvirse to see for my self if theres life ok but even that after a billion years would be worn out .
heck im olny 45 now and spend days at a time board to tears immang 45 million years of the same thing day after day.
nope no thanks I would rather be none existence . O btw as for your hell no different from heaven you know.
after all I have been in pain after a wile it just gets to the point were you dont even notice it.
o and dont say I have never been in real pain my missing right eye says other wise

reply to post by Annee


It's always talk about christians or catholics trying to change peoples beliefs, when the atheists take the cake by far...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


MATTHEW 14:22-33

While people were listening to Jesus speak, He proceeded to tell a parable because He was near Jerusalem and they thought that the kingdom of God would appear there immediately. So He said, “A nobleman went off to a distant country to obtain the kingship for himself and then to return. He called ten of his servants and gave them ten gold coins and told them, ‘Engage in trade with these until I return.’ His fellow citizens, however, despised him and sent a delegation after him to announce, ‘We do not want this man to be our king.’ But when he returned after obtaining the kingship, he had the servants called, to whom he had given the money, to learn what they had gained by trading. The first came forward and said, ‘Sir, your gold coin has earned ten additional ones.’ He replied, ‘Well done, good servant! You have been faithful in this very small matter; take charge of ten cities.’... Then the other servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your gold coin; I kept it stored away in a handkerchief, for I was afraid of you, because you are a demanding person; you take up what you did not lay down and you harvest what you did not plant.’ He said to him, ‘With your own words I shall condemn you, you wicked servant. You knew I was a demanding person, taking up what I did not lay down and harvesting what I did not plant; why did you not put my money in a bank? Then on my return I would have collected it with interest.’ And to those standing by he said, ‘Take the gold coin from him and give it to the servant who has ten.’ But they said to him, ‘Sir, he has ten gold coins.’ ‘I tell you, to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.’”...After He had said this, He proceeded on His journey up to Jerusalem.

LUKE 9:3-5
He said to the apostles, "When you travel, don't take a walking stick. Also, don't carry a bag, food, or money. Take for your trip only the clothes you are wearing. When you go into a house, stay there until it is time to leave. If the people in the town will not welcome you, go outside the town and shake their dust off of your feet. This will be a warning to them."

Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


The bible makes it clear that God has invested much in believers and we are to go out and collect interest. So the bible instructs us to teach the word to whoever will listen. The bible also tells us to dust off are feet and walk away from those who do not welcome our message. We are also told not to pass judgment on others. So I believe the attempt to teach someone the word is our moral obligation. Most Christians fail at part 2 and 3 of the message.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
However, the more someone tries to save you, the more of an undesirable creep they are perceived to be. Religious conversion is often unwanted.

Yeah, and I'm sure I would look like a creep too if I tried to convert a complete stranger into reading Batman comics.

In other words: keep your fictional stories to yourself.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Annee

 

It's always talk about christians or catholics trying to change peoples beliefs, when the atheists take the cake by far...

It's always talk about christians or catholics trying to change peoples beliefs, when the atheists take the cake by far...

very true..and many atheists are just as guilty of ramming their beliefs down the throats of others who disagree..

When it comes down to it.. why not just let Christians believe what they want.. if you are so certain there is no God heaven or hell..how can they hurt you by words?

I don't see the point in ,mocking Christians with hatred, and there does seem to be a trend towards that type of behavior.

Yet there are atheists who calmly debate how they view truth, and I think that is healthy and fine.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Annee

 

It's always talk about christians or catholics trying to change peoples beliefs, when the atheists take the cake by far...

I've never met or seen an atheist try to convert people into believing in nothing. I've never seen or heard of an atheist going door to door trying to covert believers into atheism. I've never seen or heard of an atheist shouting about their beliefs on the side of the road. I've never seen a sign that's read "honk if you believe in nothing".

Yes, I've heard debates about atheism, but only after believers tried to convert or talk about their beliefs to them.

reply to post by TravisT

I've never met or seen an atheist try to convert people into believing in nothing. I've never seen or heard of an atheist going door to door trying to covert believers into atheism. I've never seen or heard of an atheist shouting about their beliefs on the side of the road. I've never seen a sign that's read "honk if you believe in nothing". Yes, I've heard debates about atheism, but only after believers tried to convert or talk about their beliefs to them.

Don't know where you have lived..but I have seen plenty of atheists try to convince someone there is no God.

Not only that ..many have gone so far as to mock, ridicule, and seriously bully the believer.

They may not go door to door, but they are in colleges..in schools..etc.., like someone said earlier.

There are some NASTY mean atheists out there.. who delight in "taking down" Christians... so please don't kid yourself in thinking that all atheists are morally superior to Christians.

"Heaven" and "hell," then, as men have imagined them, have no existence?


The localization of rewards and punishments in fixed places exists only in man's imagination; it proceeds from his' tendency to materialize and to circumscribe the things of which he cannot comprehend the essential infinitude.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

The localization of rewards and punishments in fixed places exists only in man's imagination; it proceeds from his' tendency to materialize and to circumscribe the things of which he cannot comprehend the essential infinitude.

and you are totally entitled to see that as your reality..of truth..

others are entitled to see their reality of truth as well..

Originally posted by gabby2011

They may not go door to door, but they are in colleges..in schools..etc.., like someone said earlier.

That was the point. They don't push their beliefs on others, until they are forced to by some religious fanatic. And are you really trying to play the victim, by saying how crazy it is for someone to retaliate their beliefs, when they are put into question first?

There are some NASTY mean atheists out there.. who delight in "taking down" Christians... so please don't kid yourself in thinking that all atheists are morally superior to Christians.

So now you're saying that every Christian is never nasty or mean? I never said one was "morally superior", I said I don't see atheist go out of their way to push their beliefs onto strangers.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
"Heaven" and "hell," then, as men have imagined them, have no existence?


The localization of rewards and punishments in fixed places exists only in man's imagination; it proceeds from his' tendency to materialize and to circumscribe the things of which he cannot comprehend the essential infinitude.

edit on 1-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

I know this does not change your mind. I know that Heaven, Hell and God are real. I do not need to circumscribe the things that I cannot comprehend. I comprehend fully all that I need to comprehend. I have proof even though you will refuse to believe my proof.

I give you all a challenge. Love; spend an hour, week, month your whole life if necessary and determine where love comes from. First we know it does not come from the heart, but why does this saying exist? When you feel real love it comes from the center and radiates outward. It is much more than a mental emotion. If you are open to understanding you will realize that love comes from something more than what you are. This is God and heaven.

Much of the same can be said about anger this is Satan and hell.

Originally posted by gabby2011
When it comes down to it.. why not just let Christians believe what they want..

Most militant atheists are hardly different from proseletysing Christians. Neither are sure of their unbeliefs/beliefs and seek comfort in numbers.

if you are so certain there is no God heaven or hell..how can they hurt you by words?

No one could possibly be sure of the non-existence of anything that is not a logical impossibility. But your argument can be used against Christians too. If they are so sure of the existence of their God, heaven and hell how could atheists hurt them by their words?

What hurts are not the proclamations themselves, but the attitude associated with the proclamations.