Message to fellow Indigos/ Homo Noeticus, I'm so confused on what to believe, help!

Originally posted by centrifugal

Originally posted by Annee

Whatever.

Same to you. Next time you harvest a lightening bolt - - - and put it in a specimen jar - - - let me know.

So when we ask for proof that Indigos exist, you say regular people can't harvest lightning bolts? Are you on drugs or are you just in general really bad at making analogies? Again you have no idea what you are talking about.

What the hell are you talking about?

Someone compared dinosaurs to . . . . whatever.

Dinosaurs are physical and can be put in a specimen jar - - - - by pieces of course.

A lightening bolt can not. Because it is energy.

Can you provide ways energy is used that can be put in a jar? Of course. But you can not put energy itself in a specimen jar.

I said everything is energy. I provided a link explaining pure energy.

DONE

You know, I've always been interested in Indigo Children, myself being born in the 80's. However, I've always been skeptical.

So awhile back I looked up the characteristics.

Have strong self esteem, connection to source

Well, I don't even know what source is. As for my self esteem, yeah it's pretty strong.

Know they belong here until they are told otherwise

I know I belong here, but who is to tell me otherwise?

Have an obvious sense of self

Anyone who knows themselves has this quality.

Have difficulty with discipline and authority

Of course I do, but there was a recent post about a hidden camera showing just how the average person is succeptable to authority.

Refuse to follow orders or directions

Kinda vague. I refuse to follow STUPID orders or directions. But if I am directed to do something that I know will help in the long run, no refusal there.

Find it torture to waiting in lines, lack patience

Ok honestly, who LIKES waiting in lines?

Get frustrated by ritual-oriented systems that require little creativity

Yeah, this is called the human spirit. It is not easy to supress.

Often see better ways of doing thing at home and at school

This is another thing called human ingenuity, people/children always in their minds have a better way of doing things.

Are mostly nonconformists

Sooner or later, they will have to conform. The way the world is, this is how they will survive, sad but true.

Do not respond to guilt trips, want good reasons

Most of us don't respond to guilt trips. The logic is that if someone is guilt tripping you, OF COURSE you want a good reason!?

Get bored rather easily with assigned tasks

The rest of the world calls this...going to work.

Are rather creative

Again, human ingenuity.

Are easily distractible, can do many things at once

If they are easily distracted, how can they do many things at once. Unless they end up half assing everything?

Display strong intuition

How do you define strong intuition? I would like to know more about this, so I cannot comment.

Have strong empathy for others or NO empathy

What? No empathy? Isn't that the strong point of indigo children?

Develop abstract thinking very young

Not true in my case. I didn't start thinking outside the box until around 21 years old.

Are gifted and/or talented, highly intelligent

Anyone who puts effort into something can be gifted or talented. I am gifted in fencing, but that didn't click with me until I learned how to fence properly.

Are often identified or suspected of having ADD or ADHD, but can focus when they want to

But that's the problem with these conditions, one who has it CANNOT focus, even if they want to.

Are talented daydreamers and visionaries

How does one become a "talented" daydreamer?


Have very old, deep, wise looking eyes

Don't know what to say about this one.

Have spiritual intelligence and/or psychic skills

Spiritual intelligence.. I don't know what that means. I study the spiritual arts, but I'm not sure what spiritual intelligence means. Psychic skill? Nope

Often express anger outwardly rather than inwardly and may have trouble with rage

I think if someone is an indigo child with such high "spiritual intelligence and psychic skills they would be able to control their anger.. yeah?

Need our support to discover themselves

Are here to change the world - to help us live in greater harmony and peace with one another and to raise the vibration of the planet


Well that sums it up. No one knows what a true Indigo Child is. I am willing to keep an open mind, but more fact and proof would be nice. Though I have to say, I have seen tv shows with Indigo Children talking, and they do not seem like a normal child.

Just another mystery of life I guess.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Cecilofs

 

I personally do not accept the subjective as evidence, not necessarily proof, because there are too many examples of mistakes people have made. The story of N-rays and mesmerism are cases where people have deluded themselves into believing things were true when they were not.

What about a medical researcher that so believes in medical procedure because they have this mistaken intuition that they injure people. It happens. Real world examples of mistakes people make using their intuition are:
1. Sportscasters talking about hang time
2. Being thrown clear of an accident
3. Gambling
4. Thinking that a falling object cannot move faster than gravity allows

I fully accept that intuition can be flawed. I think a big factor in this is that people don't train their intuition. Similarly to science, you can find real world validation in your intuition as well. As a simple example, if each morning you wake up and try to picture what colour shirt your boss will be wearing, then when you get to work you can see if you were right. If you can hone that down to close to 100% success rate, then you know you are on to something. Note that I can't do this but its just an example.

In all of your examples there are other factors at play as well, such as a misunderstanding of physics, or the desire to believe you can guess the next number on a roulette table overriding your intuition. There's also the idea that your intuition will only help you when the motive is "pure" i.e. not for selfish gain, as again there are other forces at work in those cases.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Cecilofs

 

This is what I'm talking about. Honestly, what evidence could you possibly produce that Science would accept? There is nothing.

So you are saying that the claims such as a triple helix are false? You are saying that the claims of special abilities are false? I don't disagree. What you are saying in effect is that there is nothing tangible that distinguishes an Indigo from a non-Indigo. That is exactly my point. There is no difference.

Also, I did not ask for proof. I asked for evidence. These are very different.

I can't be certain, but I think that the triple-helix claims are false. I see it as a possible next step for human evolution but its definately out there as far as possibilities go. That said it would be interesting to have a look at our DNA and see if its true - I hear DNA sequencing is reasonably cheap now, though I think you'd have to look at it under an electron microscope to see if the structure has changed to a triple helix.

As for special abilities, not necessarily. I don't have any myself but I believe in the possibility. I just don't think you'd ever be able to provide evidence which science would accept. At least not in its current form - lets see where all this Quantum Mechanics research leads us.

But yes I agree about there being no tangible difference. Tangible as in quantifiable. I think there may be differences, but not tangible ones. Overall though, there is no basis to claim Indigos are superior humans - just different in the same way everyone is different. And as I said, I believe that the point is that all humans can be better than we are at the moment.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by GrimReaper86

 

The hot/cold issue is wrong in that the idea of temperature is independent of the observer. Temperature is measured by devices, not by senses. It is easy to trick senses. Place a hand in hot water and the other hand in cold water. Wait a while and then place both hands in the same room temperature water. This is a great demo for kids because the experience perceived is that each hand suggests a different idea of the water's temperature.

This is a pretty good example. Yeah, temperature is measured by devices and our senses can be fooled, but I think that's the point. Because as far as our bodies care, temperature is meaningless except relative to our own temperature. One hand is losing heat and one is gaining heat due to the temp differences between the water. If you are losing heat, you feel cold and that is your signal to put on warm clothes, or vice versa. Knowing the actual temperature is irrelevant to our subjective experience.

Now I understand that knowing the actual temperature is useful for other things like say in industrial processes. Or being able to measure the water before you put your hand in it so you don't get burned.

Grim's point still stands though, because for someone who has never experienced "hot" or "cold" they couldn't understand anything about temperature until they actual felt it and experienced it for themselves.

Perhaps a better example would be taste. Imagine someone has never tasted Wine and you try to explain it to them. They could get an academic understanding, but they won't really know or understand until they drink it themselves.

reply to post by LeTan


Where'd you get that stuff?

Sounds more like questions of the Autism spectrum.

reply to post by GrimReaper86


Just because other people think they feel something does not make it real. Just because some people think they can do something does not make it real. Lots of people claim to be able to do things like dowsing. That's a good example based on feelings. It does not work when tested. In fact, many people that are tested are astounded when they fail. I'm not saying that people are not sincere. Some truly believe that they can do these special things and are amazed at how poorly they do when they are tested.

I would point out the difference with wind. We can detect wind without even being able to feel it. We can see wind moving trees and grass. We see sand being blown by the wind. We can feel mist being laid down on our skin when the wind blows by the sea. There are observable effects that happen to us and to other things.

If something is not measurable, then it does not exist. Measurement is not just a continuous scale. It can be yes or no. There are lots of ways to measure things.

Take a deck of cards. If someone if able to determine the type of card thrown then they should be able to demonstrate this. Often people are given some leeway in that not everything has to be correct, but it has to be correct above random guessing. Although people willingly submit to such testing they fail.

I haven't read a single post where you agree with anything that is said in slightest.

You should read more because that is false. This sort of false statement is an indicator that you yourself are possibly a troll.

You seem to shun the idea that personal experience means something to a person yet you yourself are probably using your own experiences to argue this point at least within your own head.

A clear misrepresentation of my position. I have asked who has special powers and who has ever detected a triple DNA helix. The claim is that everyone being born now is an Indigo. These are not my experiences.

But I'm not going to sit around and mock something I may not fully understand.

Since when is it mocking to ask pertinent questions about claims being made?
Since when is it mocking to tell the OP that they are doing a fine job of attempting resolve a confusing situation?

The issue really boils down to the demand that people not speak up and point out that the emperor is naked. I am saying that Indigos is a made up label and that the attributes assigned to Indigos do not exist.

reply to post by Annee

Don't you get tired of hearing about these Special Powers?

Have you noticed - - - its the "mantra" of the skeptics?

The claim that Indigos have special powers comes not from skeptics but from the woos that up this Indigo label.

So please do not tell fibs about who made up this silly Indigo story. it was not skeptics.

reply to post by Annee


Another mistake. First it was the round Earth concept now it is Socrates.

You do a disservice to Socrates by mixing his name with New Age baloney. Socrates did not ever think of the soul as energy. Socrates did not state that the universe was energy. He did not make claims about pure energy.

reply to post by Annee


The misuse of energy and vibration are common tactics by hoaxers and charlatans that pretend to offer some notion of plausibility to their tall tales. This misuse of terms that sound scientific to many people is an old tactic that has gone on for over a century.

Other terms employed by fakes are: harmonics, frequency, ectoplasm, ...

reply to post by Cecilofs


In you example, you mention close to 100%. These sorts of things have been tested and no one has ever exceeded random chance. Intuition is not trained so much as intuition is backed up by more knowledge so that intuition is less relied upon.

In all of my examples, intuition failed. Intuition overruled physics. Intuition overrules the logic that casinos look grand because they take a lot of money from people.

The idea that intuition works only where the motive is "pure" means what? What is pure? Who is pure?

reply to post by Cecilofs

I can't be certain, but I think that the triple-helix claims are false. I see it as a possible next step for human evolution but its definately out there as far as possibilities go. That said it would be interesting to have a look at our DNA and see if its true - I hear DNA sequencing is reasonably cheap now, though I think you'd have to look at it under an electron microscope to see if the structure has changed to a triple helix.

Even an atomic force microscope probably cannot show DNA as a double helix. You couldn't even use sequencing since the chemistry would be completely different. There are other ways.
1. The diameter would increase
2. All of the enzyme chemistry would be different
3. mRNA would be different
4. Stains such as Nissl, AO, silver, DAPI, Hoechst, etc. are likely to reveal this substantial difference
5. Karyotype images would look different

Think about the triple helix claim. In a double helix the 2 strands are bound to each other by the AG and CT pairs. The third strand would not be bound.

I hope you make every effort to slow down and just BE. Don't worry about who or what, relax all your worry and concern is too much weight on one side of the scale. We all need balance when the scale starts tipping what emotion is behind it? To me it sounds like fear is adding a lot of weight on one side. Relax and ease up I say this because I have been there on several occasions.

You can't fix everything, you can't understand everything, and when you try to all at once, you step off into your own mentally created hell. If you wish to research these things do not do so out of fear, and do not dig and dig and link and link til you are bound in the bottom of a self created pit. Take your time, slow down digest one thing at a time, look at your emotions that surround the topic and ask yourself is it healthy? is it helping you? If not then please refrain, try and look at things objectively, scientifically, without attachment. It isn't good to get so emotionally wrapped up in your queries. Because you just end up harming yourself more than what your afraid of being actually would.

reply to post by Cecilofs

Grim's point still stands though, because for someone who has never experienced "hot" or "cold" they couldn't understand anything about temperature until they actual felt it and experienced it for themselves.

I disagree. We don't need to experience things to understand them. Here are examples:
1. The deaf person that can speak
2. The way anyone can understand an x-ray or ultrasound image
3. The way people can understand synethesia without experiencing it themselves

Perhaps a better example would be taste. Imagine someone has never tasted Wine and you try to explain it to them. They could get an academic understanding, but they won't really know or understand until they drink it themselves.

There is a difference between the actual experience and understanding an experience. In this example the person understands the experience. That is sufficient for these purposes isn't it?

reply to post by JohnCreed777


ignore domo1
listen to your self your inner self
meditate

Originally posted by Annee
Let me know next time you harvest a lightening bolt. And put it in a specimen jar.

Thanks for supporting my point of view in such an eloquent manner!

I'm no more likely to harvest a lightening bolt and present it to you as evidence than you are to prove this "indigo" nonsense. With or without the specimen jar.

Originally posted by Cecilofs
Grim's point still stands though, because for someone who has never experienced "hot" or "cold" they couldn't understand anything about temperature until they actual felt it and experienced it for themselves.

Perhaps a better example would be taste. Imagine someone has never tasted Wine and you try to explain it to them. They could get an academic understanding, but they won't really know or understand until they drink it themselves.

What nonsense. In the past, wealthy merchants could engage in intercontinental trade without serving as sailors on the ships that would bring spices from India to Europe. They understood commerce without having experienced the logistics in its gritty detail. We have plenty of understanding of subatomic particles even without having the ability to actually "experience" them. People understand that it's wrong to give a loaded gun to a kid, even when they never experienced the sight of some kid accidentally blowing off his head.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by LeTan

 

Where'd you get that stuff?

Sounds more like questions of the Autism spectrum.

edit on 23-9-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Hmm.. I didn't see it that way. Interesting point.

I got the questions from This site and just answered them.

reply to post by buddhasystem


What about harvesting a small lightning bolt, i.e. a spark. That has been done for centuries with a Leyden jar.

Indigo still stands as an unverifiable claim with no evidence and even no consensus with those proposing it.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

What about harvesting a small lightning bolt, i.e. a spark. That has been done for centuries with a Leyden jar.

Without a conductor?