Can you prove evolution wrong

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Varemia
It took humans a million years to stop just breaking big rocks for hand axes.

show me objective proof that modern humans have been around for millions of years. it should be simple enough, just show me where you found that information

edit on 5-11-2011 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

Humans belong to the genus "homo" which has been around for 2.5m years: LINK

In english, "homo" are humans...with us being "modern human". So in short, he's correct, and you just showed once again that you don't really understand (human) evolution

go back and read where I wrote MODERN HUMANS. we're talking about us not another species, anything prior to 250,000 years ago is not the same species and you can't assume the same attributes to using tools. people can't just go around making things up like "it took humans a million years to stop just breaking big rocks for and axes". it devolves the discussion and if you support that then you are not here to learn you are here to stroke your ego.

edit on 5-11-2011 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

He wrote "humans", so why are you asking about modern humans pretending that's what he said? Like I said, scientifically speaking, the genus homo (aka humans in english) dates back 2.5m years. Modern humans only around 250,000 of course, but they are direct descendants of those older homo species. And the DNA link I posted proves that

But let's just continue to ignore facts, right?

The hilarious thing is, you even posted direct proof for evolution by posting that sponge link. If we are related to them on a DNA basis, that makes perfect sense given the theory of evolution. Biodiversity (and that includes humans and sponges) are perfectly explained for crying out loud.

edit on 5-11-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

So your trying to say this happened because we mated with genius homo, and NOT primates?
And BTW you guys, of course our DNA has matching sections, all life as we know it is made up of the same type of protiens, and there is only four of them. It's the complex sequencing of them that make up DNA.
We all breath air, we all have two eyes, two ears a nose, a mouth, and we are all water based, the DNA should be similliar.

reply to post by itsthetooth

We all breath air, we all have two eyes, two ears a nose, a mouth, and we are all water based, the DNA should be similliar.

Which means we're all from this very planet, thank you, FINALLY!!! Every single life form on this planet is connected in some way because of common ancestry, and I'm happy you seem to agree

Glad you seem to start grasping the concept of evolution now...

Originally posted by itsthetooth
The only difference here is we have some not so accepted proof of evolution, otherwise it would be unanomouse.
We also have no accepted proof of aliens otherwise it would be accepted as well.

unanimous*

Some of the bones are difficult to identify or place, yes, but a large majority of them have very common-sense explanations and such.

Here is how I look at it.
Earth / over 5 million species and still counting.
Chances there is intelligent life that visits us. ya.

There is a possibility, yes.

The bible even makes reference to god being a space alien. I doubt you have ever heard that but isn't it funny how it matches with sitchens idea, with von danikens idea, with Lloyd Pyes idea.
This is why I keep saying is everyone wrong, and your right?
I never made any claims about how our existance came into play, just how it came into play here on earth.

I've read the Book of Enki and I know about how Genesis sounds more like a science experiment by a bunch of different gods, but it's not proof in the slightest. It is well known that humans have a talent for writing fiction, even when they don't realize it is fiction (delusion, paranoia, etc.)

Aliens don't live on earth, this is why it's so hard to get proof, and even when they do get a lucky break there are to many people afraid to believe it.

I welcome the day if aliens ever decide to visit, though I doubt they'd be impressed with the human race's retardation when it comes to self-government.

Assuming your right and we started here on earth, there should be so much proof that we wouldn't be having this conversation. And there is no excuse for the lack of proof unlike aliens.

There is proof. I showed you the intermediate skulls of adaptation from 2.5 million years ago to today. Check out the book, "The Ancestors' Tale," by Richard Dawkins. It goes into great detail and will clear up your questions. Warning, though. It's a thick book.

You can't start a race with two people, it's incest, A race has to start with hundreds or hundreds of thousands of people. Your trying to tell me that evolution happened to tens of thousands of people, over and over, in addition to us multplyng, but we just can't find the bones.

You wanna know how I know one of my fish died in the tank, there is a carcass laying in the rocks, WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

A race needs a diverse genetic pool in order to stay healthy, or it needs to have no chromosomal genetic diseases, which is almost impossible.

To answer your question, the bodies decomposed. Everything decomposes, and even rocks get eroded away. The only reason fossils survive is because an organism got trapped in a very particular environment with no biologic degradation. Then, slowly over time, moisture replaced the bone with calcium deposits. We have partially fossilized remains in our museums as well.

So yes. Evolution happened to hundreds of thousands of people, and the bones were re-integrated into nature through natural process. It can take a while yes, depending on the environment. Bones can last anywhere from ten years to thousands of years, but still, on the scale we're talking, hundreds of thousands and millions of years, there isn't even a slim chance of finding actual bones. Only fossils, which are extremely rare and take forever to form.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

We all breath air, we all have two eyes, two ears a nose, a mouth, and we are all water based, the DNA should be similliar.

Which means we're all from this very planet, thank you, FINALLY!!! Every single life form on this planet is connected in some way because of common ancestry, and I'm happy you seem to agree

I think the problem here is we need to go to there doorstep to both prove or dissprove.
I don't know why you don't see this the same, no, to me it means there must be intervention of some type to connect them. Your trying to tell me that there is so much evolution going on that we are all related. Then I ask why is it so hard to locate it in the works?
Glad you seem to start grasping the concept of evolution now... We are missing it in action.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by itsthetooth
The only difference here is we have some not so accepted proof of evolution, otherwise it would be unanomouse.
We also have no accepted proof of aliens otherwise it would be accepted as well.

Well its clear why we have no proof of aliens. It's because when they do find something not from here, they simply call it an unknown because they have no way to prove it's alien. So the day we can knock on the aliens door and ask for a DNA sample for comparison, is the day we might accept the idea of an alien.
unanimous*

Some of the bones are difficult to identify or place, yes, but a large majority of them have very common-sense explanations and such.

Here is how I look at it.
Earth / over 5 million species and still counting.
Chances there is intelligent life that visits us. ya.

There is a possibility, yes.
I think your not realizing the magnatuide here. We have just over 5 million species on this planet. 5 million is a lot, a hell of a lot. So in my mind its not even a question if there is other life, its how much, and how many could visit us.

The bible even makes reference to god being a space alien. I doubt you have ever heard that but isn't it funny how it matches with sitchens idea, with von danikens idea, with Lloyd Pyes idea.
This is why I keep saying is everyone wrong, and your right?
I never made any claims about how our existance came into play, just how it came into play here on earth.

I've read the Book of Enki and I know about how Genesis sounds more like a science experiment by a bunch of different gods, but it's not proof in the slightest. It is well known that humans have a talent for writing fiction, even when they don't realize it is fiction (delusion, paranoia, etc.)
True but there are to many people involved in the making of the bible. My father was a detective and one thing he taught me aobut people is that people don't lie, the person lies.

Aliens don't live on earth, this is why it's so hard to get proof, and even when they do get a lucky break there are to many people afraid to believe it.

I welcome the day if aliens ever decide to visit, though I doubt they'd be impressed with the human race's retardation when it comes to self-government.
You have no idea how right you are look at this.. www.youtube.com... They were actually trying to make contact with us, but we were not ready to reply. One of the reasons you may not see the bible as a supernatural read (even though the preface introduces it as such) is because you don't have the 30 years studying these types of things like I do. I can totally see how you might miss things like crazy. For examply god can hear our thoughts and prayers is not magic, or imaginary friends its telepathy.

Assuming your right and we started here on earth, there should be so much proof that we wouldn't be having this conversation. And there is no excuse for the lack of proof unlike aliens.

There is proof. I showed you the intermediate skulls of adaptation from 2.5 million years ago to today. Check out the book, "The Ancestors' Tale," by Richard Dawkins. It goes into great detail and will clear up your questions. Warning, though. It's a thick book.
They found an entire civilization?

You can't start a race with two people, it's incest, A race has to start with hundreds or hundreds of thousands of people. Your trying to tell me that evolution happened to tens of thousands of people, over and over, in addition to us multplyng, but we just can't find the bones.

You wanna know how I know one of my fish died in the tank, there is a carcass laying in the rocks, WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

A race needs a diverse genetic pool in order to stay healthy, or it needs to have no chromosomal genetic diseases, which is almost impossible.

To answer your question, the bodies decomposed. Everything decomposes, and even rocks get eroded away. The only reason fossils survive is because an organism got trapped in a very particular environment with no biologic degradation. Then, slowly over time, moisture replaced the bone with calcium deposits. We have partially fossilized remains in our museums as well.

So yes. Evolution happened to hundreds of thousands of people, and the bones were re-integrated into nature through natural process. It can take a while yes, depending on the environment. Bones can last anywhere from ten years to thousands of years, but still, on the scale we're talking, hundreds of thousands and millions of years, there isn't even a slim chance of finding actual bones. Only fossils, which are extremely rare and take forever to form. Ok so I shouldn't be asking for a plethora of bones, but fossils.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
Well its clear why we have no proof of aliens. It's because when they do find something not from here, they simply call it an unknown because they have no way to prove it's alien. So the day we can knock on the aliens door and ask for a DNA sample for comparison, is the day we might accept the idea of an alien.

Naturally.

I think your not realizing the magnatuide here. We have just over 5 million species on this planet. 5 million is a lot, a hell of a lot. So in my mind its not even a question if there is other life, its how much, and how many could visit us.

Like I said. It's possible, but likelihood for intelligence is still not entirely high.

True but there are to many people involved in the making of the bible. My father was a detective and one thing he taught me aobut people is that people don't lie, the person lies.

Not necessarily so. For a book compiled over time from various sources, all it takes is one original story-teller to make the whole thing false. Each person uses the original source as validation for their beliefs.

You have no idea how right you are look at this.. www.youtube.com... They were actually trying to make contact with us, but we were not ready to reply. One of the reasons you may not see the bible as a supernatural read (even though the preface introduces it as such) is because you don't have the 30 years studying these types of things like I do. I can totally see how you might miss things like crazy. For examply god can hear our thoughts and prayers is not magic, or imaginary friends its telepathy.

Telepathy is naturally possible. There will probably be a day when you can tune into a person's brain like a radio, but there's no telling whether the technology already exists somewhere, or whether it can be used at a distance. More than likely, sound waves are easier to record, as vocal prayer.

But that video is certainly interesting. I've never seen it before. None of this really disproves evolution though or offers another conclusion. Evolution happens and is used in genetics. It's not exactly questionable.

They found an entire civilization?

What? No, it's about how humans evolved throughout time, tracing back each shared ancestor until the very beginning of life on Earth.

Ok so I shouldn't be asking for a plethora of bones, but fossils.

There actually is quite the plethora of fossils at the moment, especially considering how rare they are in formation, and how hard they are to find. Like I've said earlier, usually we only find fossils (and partial ones at that) in eroded ravines. I already showed you the transition fossils in human evolution.

reply to post by Varemia


Well as odd as this might sound, it does actaully appear that we have dissabled powers....

There are seven reasons that suggest we have disabled powers.

1. In my over thirty years studying the supernatural and paranormal, I always thought it was odd that reports about other life that visits us, seems to always have special powers, and we don’t. Looking at this from the commonality of life, we appear to be missing some abilities.

2. There are multiple suggestions in the bible that also concur with us having ability’s removed from us, as a form of punishment. One of which is telepathy, and another called perceive. There might be others missing as well.

3. Vestigial organs are present in the human species, and could be part of some or our disabled ability’s.

4. Only using 10% of our brain, or at least 10% of it’s capability, means we are missing 90% of it’s function.

5. The size of our head is not average by comparison to other life here on earth. In comparison to our body size, our head exceeds the compared percentage by anything else here on earth.

6. Lloyd Pye reveals DNA findings that could also support the idea of us having disabled powers. The first is that our DNA has been tampered with, and the second is the inverted sections, the third is the dormant unrecognizable sections. And just so you know his results in this was the LAST thing I looked up because I knew if someone did what I thought they did to us, there would be DNA to prove it. And I was shocked as hell to not only find tampering but all the other pieces that fit like a glove.

7. Heightened remaining senses. As just a small example we are the only species that has sex for enjoyment, but there are many more examples. There are many things about are existing senses that could be overly sensitive as a result of missing ability’s.

reply to post by itsthetooth

4. Only using 10% of our brain, or at least 10% of it’s capability, means we are missing 90% of it’s function.

Why do you keep on repeating this blatant lie???

Heightened remaining senses. As just a small example we are the only species that has sex for enjoyment

Also a blatant lie...dolphins and bonobos for example have sex for fun all the time.

In my over thirty years studying the supernatural and paranormal, I always thought it was odd that reports about other life that visits us, seems to always have special powers, and we don’t. Looking at this from the commonality of life, we appear to be missing some abilities.

Pseudo-science....just like your "10% brain power" nonsense...

There are multiple suggestions in the bible that also concur with us having ability’s removed from us, as a form of punishment. One of which is telepathy, and another called perceive. There might be others missing as well.

The bible isn't objective evidence. All it proves is what people believed back then, which most certainly doesn't match reality. What's next? You gonna claim people can survive inside whales just because the bible says so?

Vestigial organs are present in the human species, and could be part of some or our disabled ability’s.

Also present in animals, and we know why...thanks to the theory of evolution

The size of our head is not average by comparison to other life here on earth. In comparison to our body size, our head exceeds the compared percentage by anything else here on earth.

Whales have larger heads as a % of body size, so do elephants and monkeys...or ants...the list goes on

We have the most complex brains, but evolution explains perfectly fine how that came to be

Lloyd Pye reveals DNA findings that could also support the idea of us having disabled powers. The first is that our DNA has been tampered with,

Where's the evidence of that?

and the second is the inverted sections, the third is the dormant unrecognizable sections.

Just because scientists haven't unravelled everything when it comes to DNA doesn't mean you can make stuff up...like Pye does. Hell, he doesn't even have a degree that would qualify him to make any statements regarding DNA. He's an AUTHOR not a scientists...even if he pretends to be one. Sadly, plenty of gullible people fall for it an ensure he makes a living from selling his pseudo-science books

In short, please quit that pseudo-science nonsense. The world's interesting enough as it is, no need to make crap up or believe in stuff that's demonstrably nonsense

Originally posted by itsthetooth
1. In my over thirty years studying the supernatural and paranormal, I always thought it was odd that reports about other life that visits us, seems to always have special powers, and we don’t. Looking at this from the commonality of life, we appear to be missing some abilities.

Still nothing to really do with evolution, but I'll bite, because the paranormal is a fascination of mine, and I'd love to be able to learn how to use powers.

2. There are multiple suggestions in the bible that also concur with us having ability’s removed from us, as a form of punishment. One of which is telepathy, and another called perceive. There might be others missing as well.

True, but I don't consider the Bible to be any kind of source for factual information. The bad translation and reliance on having been written down as word-of-mouth is just not very... good for me.

3. Vestigial organs are present in the human species, and could be part of some or our disabled ability’s.

Or, evolution probably led to them having no use.

4. Only using 10% of our brain, or at least 10% of it’s capability, means we are missing 90% of it’s function.

That's a myth actually, spread by a mass spam email. We use 100% of our brain, we just can't consciously access most of it. That's where the secrets lie, is the subconscious.

5. The size of our head is not average by comparison to other life here on earth. In comparison to our body size, our head exceeds the compared percentage by anything else here on earth.

Higher intelligence happens when your brain is larger in proportion to your body. This is why dolphins and chimps are smarter than the average bear.

6. Lloyd Pye reveals DNA findings that could also support the idea of us having disabled powers. The first is that our DNA has been tampered with, and the second is the inverted sections, the third is the dormant unrecognizable sections. And just so you know his results in this was the LAST thing I looked up because I knew if someone did what I thought they did to us, there would be DNA to prove it. And I was shocked as hell to not only find tampering but all the other pieces that fit like a glove.

Mutations can also explain this. Mutations do not always harm an organism, but will spread through genetics and cause changes. That's actually how adaption works. Adaption is the spreading of mutations that aide in survival/breeding.

7. Heightened remaining senses. As just a small example we are the only species that has sex for enjoyment, but there are many more examples. There are many things about are existing senses that could be overly sensitive as a result of missing ability’s.

Not true. Dolphins also partake in sexual escapades. They even engage in blowhole sex. Also, look up Bonobos. Those guys are sexual fiends. It's a part of their everyday life.

I think humans really mainly have the ability to imagine possible outcomes. This is what makes us different (though chimps and bonobos share this ability to a limited extent). It allows us to look at a rock or a piece of wood and see the potential for weapons or shelter. Really, we're quite the adapted species, and it shows by our staggering 7 billion population.

The only difference in what Lloyd Pye found and what I believe is he thinks we were engineered by aliens, and there is oodles of proof of such FYI. I think we were most likely abducted and brought here.

If Pye is right, it is possible that God started with some DNA from an existing race and merged two or more species for our specific task, which as you know was to mine gold. This could explain why our DNA says we are 200,000 years old while at the same time we seem to be missing the oodles of proof in fossils. I understand some are found, but we seem to be missing a civilization at this point.

Since we were on the subjcet of alien proof, watch this video here... www.youtube.com...

Notice how they say PARTS of the skull is not human. You might think this means it's part human but again I go back to explaining that it is humanoid so will probably have some DNA that matches. You can tell by looking at this thing it is NOT human, and the composite is not from earth either. It has over two dozen physiological differences.

I believe this skull is not from earth. The reason why it has some human matching base pairs is because it is humanoid, and Lloyd never realized this. The reason why it has human mtDNA is proof that this aliens creation was through a process known as a zygoat.

It would appear from this video that not only are aliens visiting earth like we keep hearing but that they are in fact doing the weird things that people keep telling us they do along the lines of abductions and surrogacy.

reply to post by itsthetooth


Please stop spreading that hogwash-Pye crap. He wasn't even a scientist, he's a FICTION AUTHOR for crying out loud

This could explain why our DNA says we are 200,000 years old while at the same time we seem to be missing the oodles of proof in fossils.

We can actually trace it back perfectly fine…but you ignored that link before.

I won't go into that starchild nonsense as it's demonstrably a hoax by an author who wants to make money selling books

Stop being so gullible for crying out loud!! Please

reply to post by MrXYZ


Well at least you and I do agree on one thing, we both agree on the same reason behind the others belief.

I don't believe Pye to be a fraud and I have yet to read anything convincing of such. I think it's only because it trumps evolution.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Well at least you and I do agree on one thing, we both agree on the same reason behind the others belief.

I don't believe Pye to be a fraud and I have yet to read anything convincing of such. I think it's only because it trumps evolution.

edit on 5-11-2011 by itsthetooth because: sadfs

How about the fact that detailed DNA testing at Yale showed that the skull merely had standard X and Y chromosomes and that it's 100% proven that both parents of the child's skull were human? So Pye's claims are 100% untrue and he's lying.

I really hope you're not going to ignore those facts

PS: And no, a claim that's so demonstrably wrong as that ridiculous starchild stuff doesn't "trump" evolution

reply to post by MrXYZ


Where are you finding this?
I read parts of this article and have to tell you I totally disagree.
There is no way in hell that thing is human. You can tell just by looking at it.
It doesn't even have standard eye sockets.

reply to post by itsthetooth


The very reason for the deformity is listed in the article, as well as the FACT that the DNA contains only human DNA

The child very likely suffered from untreated hydrocephalus, a mundane and simple explanation for the anomalies seen in the skull. DNA testing confirms, unsurprisingly, the child’s human ancestry.

This isn't speculation, it's FACT...and you're kinda going against the "deny ignorance" mantra of this website if you ignore facts like that.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Not at all... and I will quote...

severe congenital abnormality, but require more thorough examination before they can be more specific.

Where are the results ???????? interesting there are none huh? If someone doesn't want to believe in ET, there is always a way to do so.

reply to post by itsthetooth


Again, the DNA still proves both parents were human as Yale University found out. Yet you continue to believe an author who has no degree that would qualify him to prove his claims instead of hard facts...simply because it somehow fits your preconceived beliefs. That's the very definition of ignorance

You can't seriously act like the monkeys below when it comes to facts:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e1e2710c4d6d.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Well at least you and I do agree on one thing, we both agree on the same reason behind the others belief.

I don't believe Pye to be a fraud and I have yet to read anything convincing of such. I think it's only because it trumps evolution.

edit on 5-11-2011 by itsthetooth because: sadfs

How about the fact that detailed DNA testing at Yale showed that the skull merely had standard X and Y chromosomes and that it's 100% proven that both parents of the child's skull were human? So Pye's claims are 100% untrue and he's lying.

I really hope you're not going to ignore those facts

PS: And no, a claim that's so demonstrably wrong as that ridiculous starchild stuff doesn't "trump" evolution

edit on 5-11-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

what's funny is how people who demand so much objective proof from other people yet the crap they pull out of their arse when attempting to debunk something is unbelievable. That article is outdated and highly inaccurate.

Just the fact you would so vehemently throw it out there as "objective evidence" is proof of your willingness to "muddy the waters to make them look deep". All you've proven is that we share dna with sea sponges and the rest is you speculating.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Varemia
It took humans a million years to stop just breaking big rocks for hand axes.

show me objective proof that modern humans have been around for millions of years. it should be simple enough, just show me where you found that information

edit on 5-11-2011 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

Humans belong to the genus "homo" which has been around for 2.5m years: LINK

In english, "homo" are humans...with us being "modern human". So in short, he's correct, and you just showed once again that you don't really understand (human) evolution

Ok great. How about you explain how it works? Like, when a sub-species instantly loses two chromosomes. Does it happen by one of the mothers having a "better" adaptably mutated child or does it happen randomly all at once species wide? How does the split happen? Our species has 46 chromosomes and primates have 48 so then somewhere down the line our common ancestor's species started having some offspring more like apes with 48 chromosomes and also some offspring more modern human like us with 46? Are there species wide genetic directives that affect the mothers all at once so they start having these mutated offspring? What is the mechanism and please don't give me the old "go find out yourself" routine. If you know so much it shouldn't be hard to explain this so anybody can understand. Otherwise how can anyone else believe you know what you are talking about?

Originally posted by Varemia
Oh, ok. I see what's going on now. You don't even understand what evolution is. Evolution IS adaption. It is a series of minor adaptions (or major adaptions) that become ingrained in the genetics of a creature over time. Maybe you're having difficulty placing these adaptions on a proper scale, but you've no doubt seen the minor changes that occur in people as they have children. Well, apply these tiny changes to a high infant mortality, and then think about the genes that will end up spreading. After a sufficient number of generations, it will appear that two separate people are a completely different species (though the reintroduction to other forms of human beings before speciation has caused our genetics to stay one species). I'm not talking about a minor number of generations either. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of generations. It took humans a million years to stop just breaking big rocks for hand axes. Plus, biologists sometimes forget that the fossils we have are simply an adaptation of the time, one small picture of the available diversity which would fluctuate wildly. For all we know, the fossils find find may tend to be the equivalent of village idiots.

Point is, evolution is adaption, and adaption is evolution. One is on a micro scale and one is on a macro scale. To say otherwise is to show a complete ignorance of evolution at its most basic form.

can I ask what "adaption" is? and as far as speciation goes: "Speciation may also be induced artificially, through animal husbandry or laboratory experiments. " wikipedia

Let's follow along with the evolution model then: a species evolves for trillions of years becomes so advanced in cognitive abilities and science that it can explore other planets and even terraform barren planets and stock them with interesting biodiversity for food and enjoyment. Sounds plausible to me, I don't disagree ADAPTATION is involved within a species. I just don't see the huge numbers or types of intermediate species (which should be there mixed in with the others) that are missing from the geological record. The record actually supports intervention theory with the big gaps and huge transformations between species in a geologic blink of an eye.