Day Of Mild Annoyance

reply to post by Skyfloating

A tax payer is someone who contributes to the whole for the purpose of the Government maintaing the infrastructural integrity of a country.

actually, the taxes are paid to the federal reserve to pay the interest on the unconstitutional loans that our government procures from them.....it is a system to take a portion of your income so that you cannot make as much as you deserve....if our treasury was actually printing the money, instead of borrowing it at an interest from the federal reserve, we would not have to pay taxes....simple as that...all else is just deviled details.....

Originally posted by patternfinder
actually, the taxes are paid to the federal reserve to pay the interest on the unconstitutional loans that our government procures from them.....it is a system to take a portion of your income so that you cannot make as much as you deserve....if our treasury was actually printing the money, instead of borrowing it at an interest from the federal reserve, we would not have to pay taxes....simple as that...all else is just deviled details.....

Thank you for your analysis. My intent was to provide a first-base understanding of what taxes are, for the benefit of the poster I was addressing. Discussing your post would require a deeper understanding to which the conversation above has not yet evolved.

reply to post by patternfinder


Actually all of the Feds profits are returned to the U.S treasury....... I don't know where you get your information from, but it's all wrong.

if our treasury was actually printing the money

The treasury does print the money, the Fed controls the supply.

Originally posted by Cuervo
I think the even larger problem is peoples' willingness to ignore the fact that corporatism is the natural end-game of capitalism.

Corporatism being the "end-game" of Capitalism is a concept that evolved in now obsolete Soviet Russia for the purpose of misrepresenting western society.

An non-ideological evaluation of western society reveals that its continued flourishing was propelled by the emergence of Business-oriented mentality, which is why it and not Soviet models are being copied throughout the world to beautiful success.

Look at any game of Monopoly. It starts out fun and everybody is on the same page. Pretty soon, some players get some lucky rolls and buys some prime properties. Once it gets so bad that people can't pay the rent from landing on said properties, the owners don't want the game to end so they make "arrangements" with the other players so the game can keep going. All of the players end up owing that one person for about five hours when they should have all quit the game and started over about three hours before.

What is so precious about life is that there is no "game over" (apart from death perhaps) and you can steadily improve your game by learning from those who have previously succeeded. Or you can become a sour looser and criticize the winners of the last game. One is the path upwards, the other is the path downwards.

The epistemological misconception portrayed by the Monopoly board game is that in order to have money I must take it from society. The opposite is true: In order to have money I must give to society (otherwise society will not give me money).

This very slight shift in mindset makes all the difference between the blanket destruction and genocide socialist societies eventually gravitate towards, and a happy society of exchange and value(s) Capitalist societies move towards.

Don't mind me folks I'm just kicking back and learning.
Please (I'm being serious) continue.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by neo96
i pity those who think that legislating wealth means success

rewarding failure and medicroity says it all.

and the government has done such a bang up job so far with over half this country dependents of the government with no other means of support.

And this drooling bucket of slop...

You are so conscience you think the banks have been victimized.

What is wrong with you man?

Can you ever think?

More personal insults ...

How sad that a post such as this would even receive one star, let alone multiples.

It is quite arrogant and elitist to equate a different opinion on an issue with something being "wrong" with someone, or an inability to think.

IMO an apology is in order to neo, and perhaps everyone else reading this thread.

Regarding the banks.

Criminal activity by banks and bankers cannot be tolerated.

However, banks and bankers ARE an integral part of our economy. They CANNOT be just done away with.

Even communist countries still had banks. The soviet union had banks and china has banks, for example. They also have or had criminal activity associated with their banks from time to time.

So, IMO better oversight is the key, not unilaterally getting rid of all the banks and bankers.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by patternfinder
actually, the taxes are paid to the federal reserve to pay the interest on the unconstitutional loans that our government procures from them.....it is a system to take a portion of your income so that you cannot make as much as you deserve....if our treasury was actually printing the money, instead of borrowing it at an interest from the federal reserve, we would not have to pay taxes....simple as that...all else is just deviled details.....

Thank you for your analysis. My intent was to provide a first-base understanding of what taxes are, for the benefit of the poster I was addressing. Your post addresses a deeper understanding to which the conversation above has not yet evolved.

thank you, ha ha, i guess it's time to bring this conversation into the deeper, darker depths

the fact is, money itself is not a bad system, although it can cause an uneven playing field...first, we have to get passed the "rights" mentality...if you were born in the wilderness and your mother and father left you to fend for yourself, you wouldn't be thinking about anything but surviving, you would have no one else to proclaim your "rights" to. this "rights" mentality developed when a group of people felt disenfranchised by another group and justified their anger by proclaiming they have the "right" to a life that was as meaningful and happy as the latter group....we have no real "rights" to anything, not even to life itself, anything can be taken away from you in a flash.....

if a group has decided that they would like to have a bit more control over another group, they could use this life sustaining system we call economics to further their cause....very simply, they can introduce a "free market" if you will, that has inherent flaws of inequality built in, into a society and take advantage of these flaws to a point that it makes the society actually hate the very system that could be beneficial to them if they only knew how to harness it correctly, then they exploit all of the inherent flaws and magnify them.....once the masses are thoroughly disgusted with this system, the new system can be implemented slowly and unrecognizably by the usurpers and since it will seem to fix all of the problems of the prior system, it will be accepted universally by all, yet, because of the laws of inequality, it will be unjust also, but it will be too late, the people will have accepted it and the usurpers will have complete control of it.......it's a very sound and viable strategy based on human greed and the belief that they are "deserving" and have "rights".

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Actually all of the Feds profits are returned to the U.S treasury....... I don't know where you get your information from, but it's all wrong.

if our treasury was actually printing the money

The treasury does print the money, the Fed controls the supply.

edit on 18-9-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)

sorry, but you haven't been watching cspan when ben bernanke is on have you? and i would suggest you take a listen to "the creature from jekyl island"

nvm

there are plenty of good banks out there, unfortunately our gov't and the fed have been dumping a ton of money to bail out those too big to fail corrupt failures, and well, they have used some of the money to devour those decent banks.....
even bank of america wouldn't be in so much trouble now, if the gov't and the fed hadn't forced them, or appoint them, whatever, to take over countrywide and the mess that they created!!

if they had let those too big to fails, fail, well, that would have given those smaller, but more stable banks a perk and some of them would have grown big enough to take the place of those failed banks...
that is nwo true capitalism works!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Corporatism being the "end-game" of Capitalism is a concept that evolved in now obsolete Soviet Russia for the purpose of misrepresenting western society.

I think the US is proof that corporatism is the result of capitalsim. Everything else that enables corporatism was put in place thanks to capitalists deep pockets.

yep i know nothing of what im talking about

since when has those evil corporations ever made anyone buy anything they use or take any loans out from them

unlike govermnet which forces you to pay them and tell you that YOU UST buy a product or service.

that aint being a shill that is stating the facts of the country.

sorry people that replied and i didnt respond felt it just wasnt worth it.

no sense arguing with blind bigotry

Originally posted by neo96
yep i know nothing of what im talking about

since when has those evil corporations ever made anyone buy anything they use or take any loans out from them

unlike govermnet which forces you to pay them and tell you that YOU UST buy a product or service.

that aint being a shill that is stating the facts of the country.

sorry people that replied and i didnt respond felt it just wasnt worth it.

no sense arguing with blind bigotry

edit on 18-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Government forces you because corporations pay them to force you.

Is it really that hard to see?

reply to post by daskakik


that is a cop out and we all know it

i havent ever seen anyone force congressman to do anything

but felt their force time and time agian everyday

Originally posted by Skyfloating


An assumption does not qualify as a valid means of postulating about reality

I was unaware that my postulations had to adhere to your standard of qualification.

the Bactine was enough thanks, I don't need a dose of smoke too.

Who are these "most people" and where do they state their Assumptions?

Flexing your trolling skills again?

To what extent? Where? As compared to what countries?

Systemic

In America specifically, because I am an American citizen, which makes it my concern, being that America
does not tout a unitary form of government.

As compared to what this country can be

What banks, corporations and governments have in common is that they are all attempts by human beings to get together and form groups for solving different types of issues of society in particular and civilization in general.

What corporations?

What governments?

What groups?

What Problems?

do you like smoke???

The words "corporation", "banks" and "government" are merely labels given to different social organisms that congregate.

Yes, and all three are extremely susceptible to corruption... The combination of all three can circumvent
any system of law and order, if they are enabled to do so. It is my opinion that there is wide spread corruption
that is a result of the congregation between the "corporation", "banks" and "government".

Am I free to voice my opinion and register my descent? Or do I have to qualify and quantify the basis
of my reality with you?

It is wonderful for people to get together trying to solve the issues of life.

I agree

Human History is various groups competing with each other. By virtue of these conflicts, new situational environments arise and humankind expands to new understandings and new levels than they were before.

It is a great thing, I am a part of one of those groups vying in the very competition your are describing.

I hope this helps in gaining more insight into the nature of that which you are addressing in this most exciting and fruitful exchange of ours.

I am not sure if you are an agent of insight or incite, I prefer to think you are both.

Are you gong to address the OP at any point?

Do you think that the people gathered in New York city, to protest wall street and the banking system are justified in doing so?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by daskakik

 

that is a cop out and we all know it

i havent ever seen anyone force congressman to do anything

but felt their force time and time agian everyday

I didn't say they were forced I said they were bought.

Simple really.

Originally posted by daskakik
I think the US is proof that corporatism is the result of capitalsim. Everything else that enables corporatism was put in place thanks to capitalists deep pockets.

To clarify: I meant to explain the origins of the term "end-game" in reference to Corporatism, not deny that Corporations benefit from Capitalism just as the rest of society does.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Janky Red
You intelligent person

They loan money that is not REAL, JUST LIKE THE FED...

What is or is not real has been a topic of contention since time immemorial. Since the chair I sit on is comprised of swirling atoms rather than hard matter, is it fair for me to say the chair is not real? Or may I grant reality to the chair in the context of the physical world I reside in?

You can grant reality to anything you'd like, just don't ASSUME that I will agree with your assessment
of reality. We can agree with the chair, FYI.

The point of mentioning the nature of money was primarily based upon the fact that neo96 believes, as
he has stated to me in the past, that The Federal Reserve Bank of the United States of America is a crooked organization that creates fraudulent currency. However neo96 is does not see anything wrong with the agents
that distribute the same fraudulent currency, which is the entire existence of his alleged political nemesis,
The Federal Reserve Bank of the United States of America.

Based my personal sense of ethics, both institutions are engaged in the same industry and are intrinsically linked by the virtue of the business model they participate in. Furthermore, if one manufactures corruption
and the other distributes corruption they are both liable because of the collusive nature of their relationship,
which is the dispersement of selling money, that did not cost them any money to create in the first place.

this thread was brought to you by:

capitlalism
corporations

and everything in between and money.....

hate em all they want without them where would you be people are so blinded by hatred they cant see the forest for the trees

Originally posted by Janky Red

Yes, and all three are extremely susceptible to corruption... The combination of all three can circumvent
any system of law and order, if they are enabled to do so. It is my opinion that there is wide spread corruption
that is a result of the congregation between the "corporation", "banks" and "government".

Indeed. The world corruption index of the U.N. shows that Capitalist countries have the lowest corruption whereas socialist countries have the highest levels corruption. That makes sense, since corruption-based systems rarely survive over longer periods of time.

Am I free to voice my opinion and register my descent?

You are free to register your dissent. But embracing false ideas about Business in America will forward your descent.

Do you think that the people gathered in New York city, to protest wall street and the banking system are justified in doing so?

No. They`ll gain more by learning the basics of math than by shouting around in the streets. But each to his own.