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Originally posted by WarminIndy
Originally posted by patternfinder
I think that there were indeed some Jewish men who did this, but you can't say it was all Jewish people as though all Jewish people had a vested interest in slavery when during that time the Jewish people were facing pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe.
Like I said in my post, all races were slaves and most races had slaves. I would be very careful to post things in such a manner to make it seem that there is a Jewish conspiracy, because there simply is not. Not all Jews are wealthy like the Rothschilds. Of the Jews that I know personally, and I should say people that are Jewish, they are not wealthy and live just like the rest of us do. The thing that I admire about those who are Jewish is this, even though they are not wealthy, they still desire for their children to be educated in such professions as doctors and lawyers and do what they can to support their children to get through college. Those Jewish people who came here just after the Holocaust were very poor and had the Jewish Immigration League to connect them with family here. My own Sephardic Jewish ancestors were not wealthy at all and never in my family have we ever talked about being part of a conspiracy to control the world.
Originally posted by dave0davidson
I am amazed at the ignorance being displayed in this thread. The rebel flag is not a racist symbol. The fact that some people who fly the rebel flag doesn't make it true. The klan may have flown the flag, but that does not make it a racist flag. The klan also has the cross as one of their main symbols. You may as well say that the christian cross is a racist symbol because the klan used it. The united methodist church even has a burning cross as their symbol. No one is ignorant enough to claim that methodists are a racist denomination because of it. And to claim that no one in northern states has any right to fly the rebel flag is equally idiotic. They may be born in the south, or have family roots in the south. Or, they may choose to fly the flag in support of state's rights. That is their prerogative.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Wolfenz
If I may...
While reading your post I remembered something I always thought was strange, and something you may be interested in. I have learned from others that indigenous peoples are discriminated against heavily in some areas. I personally found that fact amazing, since here it is a mark of honor to have native bloodlines in your family.
I am part Cherokee myself (notice the mouth; I am not trying to frown) with a drop or two of Creek. That heritage is something I have always been extremely proud of, although I am somewhat ashamed to say I never learned much about it.
TheRedneck
The Iroquois League, historically the Iroquois Confederacy, is a group of Native Americans that consists of six nations: the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, the Seneca and the Tuscarora. The Iroquois have a representative government known as the Grand Council. The Grand Council is the oldest governmental institution still maintaining its original form in North America.[11] Each tribe sends chiefs to act as representatives and make decisions for the whole nation.
Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by reeferman
The confederate states of America was an illegal alliance.
Article 1 section 10 of the constitution states.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
My entire family is from the south. There is a lot of southern pride about the civil war, and in some ways a few of the grievances the southern states had with the north were justified. But in reality they just did not like taxes and wanted to have slaves so profits did not decrease.
We are a union, we are supposed to be a union. States should have more power, but we are not supposed to be nation states.
To the OP. I dont think flag represents racism. But it does represent an old ignorant way of thinking, and that is that states have the right to oppress others. No they dont...No one has the right to subvert anthers rights.edit on 16-9-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
For the sake of argument let's say the Civil War was fought over slavery. Only 25% of Southern, white males (the highest figure I could find) owned slaves. What were the other 75% fighting for?
Our educational system glibly assigns blame for the Civil war on slavery and rarely deals with it in any depth.
most Southerners were fighting to preserve slavery.
the North invaded the South.
I will not deny that slavery was an important factor in the Civil war,
I have strong doubts that they teach in schools that not only whites owned slaves but so did many free blacks as well as Native Americans.
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
My post was intended to show that the Confederate flag meant different things to different people.
Some were fighting to preserve slavery but the majority were just trying to save their homes from an invading army.
As far back as 1863, when the mostly white Second National Flag was adopted, a newspaper in Savannah, Georgia, praised it as "emblematical" of the Confederacy's fight "to maintain the Heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race." Such a literal reading of that flag's design was rare, and no equivalent reading of the battle flag's design has been made.
Emphasis in bold, mine.
Despite its implicit connection to white supremacy, the battle flag was rarely used to promote racial violence prior to World War II (1939–1945), a fact the historian John Coski attributes to southerners' treatment of the symbol as "sacred." Beginning late in the 1930s, however, two things happened more or less at the same time: first, the battle flag became a fixture of pop culture, representing the generic Old South of the film Gone with the Wind (1939); and second, it was adopted by the third incarnation of the Ku Klux Klan. Previously, the Klan had displayed only the United States flag during its marches, but as the organization was pushed by law enforcement out of such Midwestern redoubts as Indiana and back into the South, it garbed itself in more explicitly southern symbolism
Link to above information page: Slavery in the North - Delaware
Fisher arranged a meeting between Lincoln and Republican Benjamin Burton of Indian River Hundred in Sussex County, who, with 28 slaves, was the leading slaveowner in Delaware. Burton listened to the President's plan, and assured him the state's farmers would go along with it if the price was fair. Fisher then went to Dover, and, with the help of Republican Nathaniel P. Smithers, drew up a bill and presented it to the General Assembly. It would free all slaves over 35 at once, and all others by 1872. The compensation rate was to be set by a local board of assessors, and payments were to average about $500 per slave, which was very generous. It was more than a prime field hand was worth, and was five times the value of a typical slave in the state. Payment was to come from a pool of $900,000 to be provided by Congress, then safely in GOP hands.
Some Southern politicians did indeed defend slavery, but not as strongly as Abraham Lincoln did in his first inaugural address, where he supported the enshrinement of Southern slavery explicitly in the U.S. Constitution (the "Corwin Amendment") for the first time ever. Coming from the president of the United States, this was the strongest defense of slavery ever made by an American politician.
Some Southern politicians did say that their society was based on white supremacy, but so did Abraham Lincoln and most other Northern politicians. "I as much as any man want the superior position to belong to the white race," Lincoln said in a debate with Stephen Douglas in 1858. When Lincoln opposed the extension of slavery into the new territories (but not Southern slavery), he gave the standard Northern white supremacist reason: We want the territories to be reserved "for free white labor," he said. The Lincoln cultists can quote Alexander Stephens’ "cornerstone" speech all they want, but the truth is that Abraham Lincoln, and most of the leaders of the Republican Party, were in total agreement with Stephens. White supremacy was as much (if not more of) a "cornerstone" of Northern society as it was of Southern society in the 1860s....
The abolition societies of the North never claimed more than two percent of the Northern adult population as members. Lincoln was never an abolitionist, distanced himself from them politically, and even boasted in a speech in New York City that "we have abolitionists in Illinois; we shot one the other day." All of this makes it extremely unlikely that anyone who voted for Lincoln in the 1860 election did so because they thought he would end Southern slavery (which of course the Republican Party Platform of 1860 did not promise)....
More importantly, secession in no way necessitates war, regardless of what the reasons for secession are. The reasons for secession, and the reasons why there was a war, are two entirely separate issues. When New Englanders openly and publicly plotted to secede for fourteen years after Thomas Jefferson’s election, culminating in the 1814 secession convention in Hartford, Connecticut, neither President Jefferson nor President Madison (or anyone else) said one word about the appropriate response to a Northern-state secession being "invasion," "force," and "bloodshed." These are the words Lincoln used in his first inaugural address to describe what would happen in any Southern state that seceded...
It is unlikely that anyone even dreamed of invading Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island and bombing and burning Boston, Hartford and Providence into a smoldering ruin while murdering thousands of New Englanders, women and children included, if New England were to secede. Indeed, when Jefferson was asked what would happen if New England seceded, he said in a letter that New Englanders, like all other Americans "would all be our children" and he would wish them all well. More recently, all of the Soviet republics, and all of Eastern and Central Europe peacefully seceded from the Soviet Union. Secession does not necessitate war...
No respectable historian would argue that Lincoln invaded the South to free the slaves. Even his Emancipation Proclamation was only a "war measure" that would have become defunct if the war ended the next day – and it was written so as to avoid freeing any slaves since it only applied to "rebel territory." Both Lincoln and Congress announced publicly that their purpose was not to disturb slavery but to "save the union," a union that they actually destroyed philosophically by destroying its voluntary nature, as established by the founders. All states, North and South, became wards or appendages of the central government in the post-1865 era...
What Lincoln did say very clearly about war in his first inaugural address was that it was his duty "to collect the duties and imposts," but "beyond that there will no be any invasion of any state . . ." That is, if Southern secession made it impossible for Washington, D.C. to "collect the duties and imposts" (i.e., tariffs on imports, which had just been more than doubled two days earlier), then there will be an invasion. He followed through with this threat, and that is why there was a war that ended up killing 670,000 Americans, including some 50,000 Southern civilians, while maiming for life more than a million...
Secession does not necessitate war; nor was war necessary to end slavery. The rest of the world (including all of the Northern states ended slavery peacefully in the nineteenth century, as James Powell documents and describes in his outstanding book, Greatest Emancipations: How the West Ended Slavery... Read the Whole Article Here
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Southern Guardian
If you're going to post a reply to me how about not adding quotes from other people's posts without acknowledging who posted which.
My post was intended to show that the Confederate flag meant different things to different people.
Originally posted by WarminIndy
I did not know before this that the KKK was Democratic.
en.wikipedia.org...
Nathan Bedford Forrest was the first Klan founder and William J. Simmons, a Methodist minister, was the founder of the second Klan.