The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

reply to post by Asktheanimals

That's funny, I was wondering to myself about whether anyone would actually want to own slaves today.

The Slaves are Still in America instead of blacks its everyone ! Mostly Blue Color Cooperate Slaves!

as Corporates (( Company's )) run this Nation not the Government,, you know those Few Small Group of Men they call The Power That Be TPTB they also run the 3 political branches Especially that make the Laws & Regulation's and Policy's, Bills , ACTs It All from The Money Trail just need to Follow it !

Im not just talking about a Labor Slave im Talking about a Controlled Individual That has Limitation..
Its like a Mouse in a Maze trying to go though the Other Side and Hitting Dead Ends ..

If you Live in THE Grand USA I challenge you to go into the Woods and Live off the Land you know !! HUNT FISH Farm & Build a Home !!!! Stop Paying Taxes (IRS) With Out the USE of Licenses or Permits or Permission from the State or Federal Government I Can Guarantee You will be Fined Up the A@@ or even be Sent to Jail and just maybe Slapped on a Felony Charge Then you will never able to Hunt Fish( Carry A weapon ) nor Vote Again ! All because The State making more Money To Fine You or License & Permit You
and Control a Limit amount of You! to do all these Things

Hell 2 years ago i was able to Burn my waste of Paper & Wood products In a Controlled Manner
Until New York State Stopped it
Now you can Only Burn with a limited amount and you need a License to do it In

One example

New York state residential burning ban still in effect

Violators can face both criminal and civil enforcement citations, with penalties ranging from $375 to $15,000 for a first offense, according to the DEC. To report a violation, call 1-800-TIPP DEC (1-800-847-7332).

www.syracuse.com...


We Do Not have Freedom of Movement or Will in America The Only Exception is On Preserved Reservation of the Native American People


as I have Posted this Before Doug Stanhope Pretty Much Explains it ! about the 1:50 Mark is the part you need to pay Attention

Doug Stanhope on Freedom


I Guess those Patriot Songs dont mean much today

Land of the Free Home of the Brave ! Meant Something like a Century Ago not Much Now

as ive been looking at Japans Constitution & from what i see, is even more freedom rights then Our Nation ( USA )

Constitution of Japan
en.wikipedia.org...
(Afrodaddy.com)

Corporations – The Modern Day Slave Master
By Team Afro on Sun, 09/05/2010 - 13:07
afrodaddy.com...


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Now what Would of Happen if the Confederate Won the Civil War

What would this Country be Like? Would it of been Worse !

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Here is something about current racism against Indians here, my niece, the daughter of my sister and aforementioned brother-in-law, considers herself Lumbee. She is only 11 but she is proud of her heritage. She draws pictures of Native Pride all the time. When she was 7, the school she went to was primarily African American in Greensboro, North Carolina, she decided one day in November that she was going to wear one of her dad's hawk feathers in her hair. The principal pulled her out of class to tell her she could not wear it. When my niece asked why, she was told that it was a religious symbol so she could not wear it. My niece was very upset now and said it was part of her heritage. The principal made her remove it and take it home. The following February my niece had to take part in Black History Month events at the school. November is Native American Heritage month. My niece was not allowed in her school to display her heritage in the very month designated for her.

It lives on, and you'd be surprised the places you find it, even government places like schools where it's supposed tio be eradicated.

It was also in Greensboro where I ran into it. I went to the State Employment Commission several years ago. During the interview, the lady behind the computer looked at her screen, looked back at me, then looked back at her screen, then looked back at me and said "Says here you're an Indian. You don't look like an Indian."

So I stared at her for a minute like a bug under glass until she started shifting uncomfortably, then I said "Ma'am, what does and Indian LOOK like? Would it help if I went outside, and came back in with some feathers in my hair?"

The rest of the interview went off without a hitch.

It's not in a flag, it's in people's hearts, and it lives on in the stereotypes they perpetuate. A flag is nothing but a bit of cloth.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by WarminIndy



So I stared at her for a minute like a bug under glass until she started shifting uncomfortably, then I said "Ma'am, what does and Indian LOOK like? Would it help if I went outside, and came back in with some feathers in my hair?"

The stereotype images was what I referred to earlier in another post. I just talked a lady today who was talking about her little Indian statues and her dreamcathcher. The woman is not descended from Indians at all. But some people have made the image into something stereotyped that you can buy in stores. It used to be people had those statues of the black man with the lantern and the "Sambo" statue eating watermelon. Those were eventually considered to be racist images.

I think when it comes to Indians, and those who do not know any Indians at all, they become in some ways exotic and therefore mysterious and exciting.

A lot of myths and stereotypes we have of people though are being perpetuated by those who belong to that particular race.

reply to post by WarminIndy


I am well aware that Delaware is a northern border state along the Mason-Dixon line as is Pennsylvania and that Maryland is a southern border state. I am also well aware that for a border state, either to the north or the south of the "line", their political view on this issue was at best... tricky. That being said, slavery was also practiced in states farther to the north of the 'old line'.

If you had read the links provided in the referenced website you will see that New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont and Massachusetts all had slavery leading up to the civil war. Let me provide that link for you again: Slavery in the North.

While I appreciate the attempt at trying to educate me on a topic that I have researched a great deal.. it is hardly the topic of the OP. Slavery does not equal racism, never has and never will. Only once we start to see, and understand, the difference in definitions here will we then on the right path to end racism.

Some people want it to be about race so they have something to b!ch and complain about. Just another reason to stir up trouble. Many people fly this flag because of their proud southern heritage. Just like the Mexicans that fly the Mexican flag they are proud of their heritage. They do it and its ok but as soon as someone with southern heritage flies the confederate flag then people want to automatically call them racist and I think that is crap. The flag was born in the civil war which was not about racism but states rights. It was later adopted by racist groups yes but it was originally created as a part of southern heritage. People always seem to forget about the heritage part and automatically take it as a hate symbol because that is more controversial. It is a free country if someone wants to fly the confederate flag then they have that right. If it offends you then look away its that simple no reason to make a big deal just because someone believes different than you. Worry about what matters and not about what others are doing.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Very well said.

Originally posted by JROCK2527
Some people want it to be about race so they have something to b!ch and complain about. Just another reason to stir up trouble. Many people fly this flag because of their proud southern heritage. Just like the Mexicans that fly the Mexican flag they are proud of their heritage. They do it and its ok but as soon as someone with southern heritage flies the confederate flag then people want to automatically call them racist and I think that is crap. The flag was born in the civil war which was not about racism but states rights. It was later adopted by racist groups yes but it was originally created as a part of southern heritage. People always seem to forget about the heritage part and automatically take it as a hate symbol because that is more controversial. It is a free country if someone wants to fly the confederate flag then they have that right. If it offends you then look away its that simple no reason to make a big deal just because someone believes different than you. Worry about what matters and not about what others are doing.

Your premise is analogous to the Nazis in WW2 not really targeting Jewish people but instead, going after economic injustice within the classes and bringing the true German people together. Let's fly the Nazi flag today - you can say "its not about hating the Jews - its about uniting Germany"....See how that works out for you.

You're delusional to believe that "states rights" had nothing to do with slavery. Read some history. The southern states broke away over the issue of the rights of the newly added border states to own slaves. There were not any other states rights issues involved other than the slavery issue. You want to make that about states rights more power to you. All I know is that when the civil war was over, the confederate general Nathan Forrest did not spend his intellect and energy in continuing the battle for "states rights." He instead spent his days after the war forming the KKK. That about sums it up,

Originally posted by mrsoul2009
All I know is that when the civil war was over, the confederate general Nathan Forrest did not spend his intellect and energy in continuing the battle for "states rights." He instead spent his days after the war forming the KKK. That about sums it up,

Sorry, but that is simply not true. Forrest was asked to be the Grand Wizard of the KKK which at the time was dedicated to running off Northern speculators and carpetbaggers, but once he discovered what they were actually doing he quit. Not only did he quit, he tried to disband the KKK. Forrest truly had a change of heart after the war and while building railroads he hired blacks not only as laborers but as engineers.
When Forrest died there were more blacks that marched in his funeral procession than whites.
He was a slave trader before the war and that's how he made his fortune.
He died broke and very sickly but the blacks that shared his land loved and respected him and refused to leave him.

It is possible for people to change and Forrest is a great example of Christian redemption.
There was no one more fearless in battle or more dedicated to a cause, but once the war was over he told his troops to go home, follow the laws of the Nation and be good citizens.
He deserves to be remembered better than he is usually portrayed.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by mrsoul2009
All I know is that when the civil war was over, the confederate general Nathan Forrest did not spend his intellect and energy in continuing the battle for "states rights." He instead spent his days after the war forming the KKK. That about sums it up,

Sorry, but that is simply not true. Forrest was asked to be the Grand Wizard of the KKK which at the time was dedicated to running off Northern speculators and carpetbaggers, but once he discovered what they were actually doing he quit.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was the founder of the first KKK. And the purpose for wearing sheets was to make the former slaves afraid of the ghosts of the white Confederate soldiers.

reply to post by mrsoul2009


Agian focusing on what you believe to be the racist part. too ignorant to see the big picture and lashing out without all of your facts straight. now whos the dillusional one here? study your history and get your facts togather then come back and talk when you are ready to keep with the spirit of this site which is denying ignorance. Until then i'm done with you PEACE!

note to MOD: thanks for spareing me from having to give the history lesson.

The KKK did exist prior to the Civil War. Prior to 1865, it was not a centralized movement but more loosely-connected groups of localized 'vigilantes'. Their purpose was to make right wrongs which the law could not (or would not) address. For example, wifebeaters were a favorite target although there were other 'sins' (refusal to work, fraudulent business dealings, etc. - and yes, those who assisted runaway slaves) which would be 'avenged'.

The target of this anonymous group would first awake in the middle of the night to a cross burning in their yard. That was a warning. Those who did not heed the warning to change their ways would awaken another night to a group of masked invaders who would severely beat them while informing them of their problems.

Third experience was usually a hanging.

The symbolism speaks for itself: the burning cross was a symbol of destruction of Christian principles, and the white robes a symbol of (relative) purity. The hoods were necessary because these groups would sometimes go after powerful landowners or public officials.

None of this post is meant to either condone nor condemn these actions. I simply state local history for the sake of understanding.

After the Civil War, the KKK changed to a more racist organization, I believe as a result of the anger that was being experienced by the returning soldiers. Remember they came back home not only defeated in war, but also to find their homes burned to the ground, their fields burned bare, many of their families killed in cold blood, the women violated... what man in his right mind would not be angry? And to add to all that, th carpetbaggers were busily trying to buy up all the land, using as a major tactic the fact that the taxes were so high as to be impossible to pay in their present situation... the very taxes they were fighting to be free of.

Yeah, they were mad. Yeah, they turned extremely racist, even compared to the racism that was common in the day. Yeah, the KKK changed... and not in a good way. It also experienced a huge increase in interest from prospective members and became much more interconnected between local groups, leading to the KKK we know of today.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by hadriana

Originally posted by Butterbone
Bottom Line!

The confederate flag was flown by people who didn't want to be Americans.
The confederate flag was flown by people who killed REAL Americans.

Confederate Flag = Al Qaeda = Terrorist!!!

edit on 16-9-2011 by Butterbone because: correction

I wouldn't come down here in Alabama or Georgia on the streetcorner yelling that drivel. I certainly wouldn't repeat it in a bar, if I were you. You might find out that the war isn't completely over.

That's just a word of advice.
You can try it, if you want, but it won't be like an Internet forum.

edit on 17-9-2011 by hadriana because: (no reason given)

See there you go. Obviously some of those terrorists still don't want to be Americans. Alabama and Georgia = Sleeper Cells of Al-Qaeda (south).

Everything you need to know about the south is already known. Even with free labor, nearly unlimited resources, (more than the north had) and some of the most secure terrain on this continent, they still lost. And lost badly.

Takes a special kind of stupid to start out with all the advantages and still completely blow it. That's all I'm sayin.

So maybe what the confederate flag really represents is a sense of pride in making the worst of the best situation!!! Hmmm? Could that be it.
Pride of Failure?
A Heritage of not being able to pull it together. Cause you guys are staying true to your heritage if that's the case.


Confederates = terrorists SO Confederate Flag = support of terrorists.


The number one thing I've learned from republicans in the last 10 years is that if you repeat it enough, no matter how ridiculous, it will eventually become true.

So to recap, Confederates = terrorists SO Confederate Flag = support of terrorists.

Originally posted by GrassyKnoll

Originally posted by bftroop
reply to post by GrassyKnoll

 

Don't you mean reverse racism?

I find the term "reverse racism" to be racist as it implies whites are responsible for racism.

That was meant sarcastically

reply to post by tankerpilot


thats is true, but meanings change, take the word gay, once it used to mean happy, now it's meaning is totally different, same with the rainbow symbol.
Nothing remains unchanged, and sometimes new meanings are not positive. This is definitely true about the confederate flag. You only have to see who uses it these days to understand that.

most of you people need to go back to school or something because the civil war as stated was due to state rights but was also due to favoritism of the north e.g new infrastructure and general development was mostly limited to the north while the south remained suppressed to produce trade goods cotton,tobacco ect. while the north reaped the all the profits from the souths output thus causing the formation of the confederate states of america. the flag was a representation of the southern states not of racism although, most people with the average iq of a walnut could very well influence someone to percieve the confederate flag as a representation of racism. as the sites motto goes "deny ignorance" educate yourself before making a post take an american history course at your local college.

reply to post by Butterbone


So let me get this right here... you are equating southern states residents, past and present, with terrorists? Please tell me that is not what I just read. Are you really saying that because they stood up for their rights as states, as guaranteed by the very Constitution of this country, they are terrorists bent on the bloodbaths of innocents? Following that 'fuzzy' logic those who today display proudly the "Don't Tread On Me" flag, of which I am one, would be terrorists as well no matter your geographical locale. Personally I would rather be counted as one of the people who have come to recognize the fact that 'we the people' are still being raked over the coals by our government and am proud to be one who is standing up and saying "enough is enough" which is what the southern states of the time of the Civil War were doing.

I have come to an assumption from your rhetoric that you assume that Kentucky (the location listed under your avatar pic) was a non slave state and was a proud member of the Union cause... which, since you lack historical understanding, you assume was all about the abolition of slavery. Have you done any research into your own home state and their view on the whole thing? No?? Well here, let me provide to you some information on that topic taken directly from the Kentucky Educational Television website. Link to info below is: Kentucky Educational Television

Kentucky was one of the "border states" in the Civil War, both geographically and politically. It was situated on the dividing line between the northern and southern regions of the United States. And it was one of only a few slave states that opted to stay in the Union.

Bold emphasis mine.

Politically, Kentucky was proud of its role in preserving the Union. Through the work of the Great Compromiser, Kentucky Senator Henry Clay, conflict was prevented for more than 30 years, even though bitter feelings between the Northern and Southern states over tariffs, states' rights, and the slavery issue threatened to rip the country apart.

Bold emphasis again mine.

It states that Ky was proud of it's role in preserving the union..not the north but the entire union of states, both southern and northern. Why is that? Because it needed/wanted to preserve its status quo in order to keep its thriving economy as a state alive which is why it's legislature voted to remain neutral in the conflict. In that vote of neutrality it's absorbtion into the war on the side of the Union was assumed. This was not done over a moral issue like slavery but for pure profit. The bold text will show you that even now it is recognized that slavery was not the ONLY issue in the War between the States.

Kentucky was a source of slaves for the cotton plantations in the lower South, and the slave trade was a very profitable business for many Kentuckians. However, most Kentuckians did not own slaves.

Bold again my emphasis.

Most residents of the south did not own slaves either, it was again, like Kentucky, where only the wealthy land owners owned slaves. Most residents were too poor.

When President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in January of 1863, all slaves in the Confederacy were legally set free. Because Kentucky remained in the Union, slaves in this state were not free.

The Civil War ended in 1865, and Kentucky slaves were legally freed when the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States was ratified soon afterward. But Confederate sentiment was still high in Kentucky after the war. The Kentucky General Assembly failed to ratify either the 13th Amendment; the 14th, which gave equal protection under the law to blacks; or the 15th, which gave African Americans the right to vote.

Bold emphasis mine..again.

So, as we see in the examples above, when merged with your own opinion equating slavery with terrorists of the worst sort, Kentucky, your current location, would indeed seem to be run by terrorist cells. I would move if I were you. I would go west... I hear they are giving away 40 acres and a mule.....

There were several flags of the Confederate States of America. Slavery was just one issue of the Civil War. I have lived half a century nearly in both the North and the South. They are two different cultures of people even today.
The orginal South Carolina Confederate flag resides in Fort Sumter, Charleston, SC. It is blue with a white palm tree and cressent moon. Here is the funny part.... Today all over South Carolina products with the palm tree and cresent moon can be purchased. Flags, purses, beach towels, belts, shoes, shirts, blankets, huggies, mugs, liscence plate covers, car stickers, etc... It symbolizes Southern Pride.

Slavery and racism are wrong. Slavery and racism are something that has taken place all over the planet through out the millienia. It is something humans do to each other that is very evil. Slavery is bullying at its climax. It is so hot here in SC and other Southern States that they probably thought they needed free help. Ask any African American if they want a free ride back to Africa, the answer would probably be no. Racism takes place between the races, and slavery happened all over the planet. My relatives came over as indentured servants from Ireland some of them. I always felt like my mother's slave growing up. Life is hard for most people, what can we do? Fight for human rights and try to get along.

The rebel flag always makes a comeback during hard economic times. why because its just that a REBEL flag just because it is associated with the south and their slavery it gets a bad rap. Do i own a rebel flag HELL ya am i racist slightly but not towards African Americans. The flag means different things to different people to me its about standing up for what you believe in to rebel against the establishment.

reply to post by hawkiye


I understand your point, when it comes to the tenth amendment and I agree. However I stand by my interpretation of Article 1 section 10. States do not have the right to dissolve the union willy-nilly because of politically ideological arguments. I do believe like Jefferson that states do have the right to secede, but only under extraordinary circumstances due to oppression, genocide, and crimes we consider now as "crimes against humanity". But not over political disagreements which can be settled within a representative democracy.

This secession debate has gone on since the crisis in 1787 barely more than 10 years after the founding. The staunch anti-federalist's throughout these years threatened secession multiple times. And due to bad policies and economic tribulation, this meme basically paved the way for the civil war more than 70 years before it happened.

Hamilton said he feared secessionist mentality specifically for this reason, that it creates civil wars. The civil wars in Europe over hundreds of years are proof of this. A union is strong and it is what made this country so great.

The north was not innocent during the civil war and I think that is the lie perpetrated by the educational system, but that does not make the south more right. Like I said above due to bad policies and economic turmoil instigated mostly by federalists, created a big problem. But the south did not react rationally.

I see SO many similarities with the period of 70 years leading up to the civil war and our present state of the union. So many disagreements on policies, and so much economic trouble. And funny enough I have heard politicians talk about... you guessed it secession!!!! (albeit probably just rhetoric).

So agree with me disagree with me, does not really matter. We are in the same argument that political intellectuals have stumbled over for over 200 years. Lets just fix the union so we can stand strong again.

reply to post by tankerpilot


I Agree The Flag Was All About Opposition.
All About What People Stand For.
Not Wanting A Federal Government To Take Us All Over So We Will See Only Their Point Of View.
The Elite Few.
I See That Flag Flying Again For The Same Reason.
Just My Opinion

After All We Are Slaves To The Federal Government.