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Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by xEphon
the Confederate Flag is NOT about racism..
its about FREEDOM....
I didn't say all truckers are from the south, you did.
Your point, was to say you understand racism, by going to one place in PA, and turning on a CB.
My point, was you just over generalized an entire region, based on going to a particular isolated place, and turning on a device that not too many people use.
The civil war was at core about slavery, taxation had little to nothing to do with it.
Originally posted by WarminIndy
Originally posted by Xeven
I want to clarify that I have not read anything other than the first post on this thread. I grew up in the south. At some point it appeared the confederate flag was a cool thing to display and maybe wear as a bandana on the head in my youth. Later in life i realized the significance of it being racist in some minds. If I offended anyone or I Hope it it not effect them to greatly.
'I post this to let some of you know that youth may display the flag and not really "get" all that it means. So I ask that you at least give people the benifit of the doubt when seeing such a display of the confederate flag. Not all young folks like me relized all that it could mean to everyone viewing it.
I of course would no longer display such things as not to cause anyone issues though I reserve the right to be stupid.
I grew up in the North but my my maternal grandmother and my dad's family were all from the South. I spent 9 years in North Carolina being told that as a Northerner I was not welcome because I was a Northerner. I had ancestors on both sides of the war. None of my family there displays the flag. My brother-in-law had a Confederate flag that he thought was cool because he was all into the rebellion against authority. That brother-in-law was from Indiana and all of his ancestors were from the North.
This same family he was from had stereotypical images of Native American women in the bikini type things they believed them to wear. When I commented to my father-in-law that I was also part Shawnee, they were offended by that. When I commented on the Easter ham that it was not kosher they were offended by that. I am also part Jewish. It seems that no matter what I am, to them I am offensive. I am not a Jewish person by faith and the unkosher Easter ham was said in a very joking manner. These people believed in the stereotyping of people they knew nothing about. I am no longer married to that husband from that family but they still hold their ideas of stereotyping. This family from the North was actually more hillbilly than my grandparents. And I can say hillbilly because my family are hillbillies. In doing that ex-husband's genealogy, I found no person in his family that were in the Civil War.
I do not fill my house with Native American things such as dream catchers and those things like wolves heads on dream catchers because to me, they are part of being Native American, of which I am only a part. I want to respect Native Americans by not displaying stereotypical things about them.
So when we see things that are symbolic, we have to ask ourselves if it speaks against the dignity of another human being. The Confederate flag does speak against the dignity of the humanity of the black slaves that did not come here on their own and were forced to be slaves. And that indignity is what a lot of young men died to end and a lot of young men died to preserve.
Originally posted by xEphon
I'm curious to see if this has been happening in the places you live too. I've noticed this here in PA. I hear many people claim it isn't about racism and frankly that's just BS. The confederate flag always has and always will be about racism.
Originally posted by watcher3339
Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by watcher3339
And you should do as you will.
You have your convictions. Others have their own.
A big part of my point though is that our convictions, mine and yours, might actually be the same. In this very thread where people are fighting over the flag, how many of us believe that the Federal Government has stepped outside the bounds of its constiutionally given bounds? I suspect a lot of us have. But here we all are, bickering, because the symbol itself means too many things to too many different people. I suggest 10th ammendment Tshirts for everyone!
Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by felonius
You made me laugh it reminded me of a t shirt i saw once. American by birth - Southern by the grace of God. I have to admit since i moved to the south southerners are very proud of there heritage. I think this is something norherners dont understand. Oh and they also don't git grits and sweet tea either.
That's exactly what you implied, by what you wrote. "And I bet those truckers are southerners too. Hey I bet they're from the south". I know it was a sarcastic rant, but there is no denying that is exactly what you were implying, which I was "supposedly" saying.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
Excuse me? When did anyone say such a thing? All I said was that during my time in New England, I heard more racist comments than I ever have have in the South, and gave a location where they seem to be especially prevalent.
Oh wow, and Gogu on page 11 agrees with me, that comparing a CB radio to "all northerners are racists" is kind of exaggerating it a bit.
And another poster, watcher3339 on page 13, agrees with me.
So you're saying you don't understand racism, by saying you think most of the north is more racist than the south, but then say you understand it when you hear it, but not when the confederate flag is involved? Which is it, do you understand it, or don't you?
Earth to TravisT!
Earth to TravisT!
Come in TravisT!
My whole point is that I do not understand racism. There is no reason in this day and age for one person to hate or even disparage another person simply because of the color of their skin. That said, I do think I know racism when I hear it... when someone is broadcasting "[censored*]" every few minutes, it sounds like racism to me. I mean, I come from a culture in which that 'N-word' is, well was until recently, a part of the vocabulary, and have never heard it used as harshly or as frequently as I have in New England. And again, the people using it are speaking in northern accents.
Again, what are you talking about? My point was that truckers are the ones who primarily use CB radios, and now you're acting like I never said that, and are also acting like every trucker is from the north? Do I have to do the stupid "earth to" comment again? I already said using the CB example, to imply that the north is racist, because of what you hear truckers say on a CB radio is ridiculous. How you can even pinpoint were truckers live is beyond me, which is why the CB example is moot. Truckers are everywhere at all times, and they don't represent any "side", as there can be just as many equal truckers in the south, as there are in the north. So truckers are racist. Ok, I already said that. What's your point about how that makes your decision on how you know the north is more racist? It makes no sense!
The sad fact, whether you wish to admit it or not, is that at night in a truck stop, the anonymity provided by that little CB radio translates to people saying what they wish they could say openly in public. And believe it or not, truckers still use CB radios; cell phones don't let you talk to the guy in front of you to find out why traffic has stopped or to the guy going the opposite direction to find out whether the coops are open or not ahead. CB's do.
Ha, I don't get out much? Please, I'm a friggin comedian, and I have to travel 7-8 months a year, and have to go to all parts of the United States/parts of the world. I get out plenty, and I see different cultures, people, towns, cities, states, etc etc. Maybe you need to get out of the south, and actual interact with people, instead of listen in to CB radio chat that means absolutist nothing.
You either don't get out much, or you are blind to what is happening around you. I suggest you try opening your eyes. You will not like what you see.
I actually do know the history of it, but like I've explained to you in detail already, it doesn't matter if the flag wasn't exactly about racism in the beginning(like the swastika), the point is, it is now. I get you like it, but your denial in that it represent a part of racism is BEYOND ignorant. Hell, wear a swastika, wear the confederate flag, but to deny the fact that it has racist ties, isn't just ignorant, it is stupid. Do it, in fact, please wear it even more proudly, but just know how ignorant you look now, just like some stupid idiot who wears a swastika because he likes the original meaning of the symbol
No I didn't, but even if I had... exactly how is that different from generalizing an entire culture based on a flag you obviously do not understand?
Originally posted by sixswornsermon
reply to post by reeferman
You get a star.
The real reason behind the civil war was states rights, but good luck getting that information from your local brainwashing institu - I mean school.
My personal stance is that slavery and racism are both abhorrent. Yes, there is a knee jerk tendency to connect the Confederate flag with racism, but you have to understand the real story.
Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by MaryStillToe
While my previous responses will make it clear that I agree with you that there is racism up North and the Confederate Flag represents racism when displayed in the north, I don't think it is accurate to suggest that the people in the north who are enamored of it are bitter because without the civil war and the freeing of slaves they would have been wealthy. The people who were wealthy enough to own slaves in the south have wealthy descendents today.
The people who are poor today were not very likely to have had plantation owning great grandparents.
Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Southern Guardian
Ok time for a history lesson
first lets start with the states declarations as you called them this is incorrect by the way but the web site you quoted is being selective on what they show you. First there called Ordinance of Nullification this is how a state secedes from the union. Second Here is what georgia said here is there real document .
Your reading revisionist history again slavery was one of the causes but in reality the smallest one. The major cause was taxes Lincoln had all ready stated he wasnt going to ban slavery.
Tariffs were not an issue in 1860, and Southern states said nothing about them. Why would they? Southerners had written the tariff of 1857, under which the nation was functioning. Its rates were lower than at any point since 1816.
Passed with some hope to elude the impending economic crisis, the Tariff of 1857 was the lowest tariff enacted by Congress since 1816. The tariff was partially passed in order to rectify the conflict between the woolen manufacturers and producers, both of whom were badly hit with the 1846 tariff, which had raised the duties on raw wools to thirty percent and reduced that on flannels and blankets to only twenty percent. The Tariff of 1857 effectively lowered the manufacturers' costs, protected their market from foreign competition, and compensated producers by retaining the existing thirty percent duties on competing foreign wools. The Tariff of 1857 was warmly greeted in the South and roundly derided in the North.
Breckinridge, a likable border-state moderate, was elected vice president under James Buchanan (1857-61); as vice president, he worked unsuccessfully for a sectional compromise. He was nominated as a presidential candidate by the Democratic party's southern wing; he swept the South but lost nationally to Abraham Lincoln.
one more thing as far as slaves were concerned the north the abolitionists were a small factor in the north at the time of Lincoln 4%. Do you really think the North sent people to die with only 4%
Washington, August 22, 1862.
Hon. Horace Greeley:
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.