if people with superpowers appear will you percieve this phenomenon as the second coming of Christ?

reply to post by prevenge


Of course not why would anyone think superhuman humans where anything other than that
superHUMAN the clue is in the name.

As for the second comming,im not convinced there has been a first comming yet,i see no proof.

Originally posted by Paladin1dcs

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
here's a good point for you all, if i see super people i will assume that they're a product of science. As for the miracles of jesus, well, did he invent a jet plane? maybe came up with innoculations against diseases? ever perform open heart surgery ? well no he didn't. If you want "miracles" then look no further than human invented science - thats where the real miracles come from.

If anything religion has diverted us away from truth, science and the pursuit of knowledge of the real world we really live in.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: added an opinion - feel free to ignore it

Actually, I'd say that the focus of your disdain is misplaced. Did Christ invent an Aircraft? No, He created the aluminum that was involved. Did He create the inoculation against disease? No, He healed them directly. Did He perform open heart surgery? No, He raised the dead, caused the lame to walk and the blind to see. Most importantly, He told us, via Proverbs, to gain knowledge and store up learning. To ask for Wisdom and seek wise counsel.

All of the great inventions of science came about because mankind used his God given talents to question and seek answers. Seeking answers to life's questions is what we're designed to do and it's what God commands us to do. After all, what do you think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is but the answer to the greatest question ever posed to man.

In your oppinion, not in mine though.

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


Ah so you believe jesus's miracles were real and not metaphorical ? Making the blind see, making the dead live again, it's all just metaphor ! While on the other hand doctors bring the dead back to life on a daily basis.

As for the bible being for the idea of science and inquiry, maybe it is but it's practicioners certainly haven't been following that mentality for about 1600 years. Look at Galileo Galilei life. Look at the persecution of other beliefs by christians, look at the decline in chrisianty since the renaisance. Look at what happened to the Cathars.

Sad fact is christianity, when deprived of social and political control tends to die off, which is a good thing.

Oh and as for the greatest question ever asked - why ? then sure believe a bunch of mystics who died bereft of 400 years of scientific inquiry, i'll stick to science and my own brand of mysticism.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Ah so you believe jesus's miracles were real and not metaphorical ? Making the blind see, making the dead live again, it's all just metaphor ! While on the other hand doctors bring the dead back to life on a daily basis.

As for the bible being for the idea of science and inquiry, maybe it is but it's practicioners certainly haven't been following that mentality for about 1600 years. Look at Galileo Galilei life. Look at the persecution of other beliefs by christians, look at the decline in chrisianty since the renaisance. Look at what happened to the Cathars.

Sad fact is christianity, when deprived of social and political control tends to die off, which is a good thing.

Oh and as for the greatest question ever asked - why ? then sure believe a bunch of mystics who died bereft of 400 years of scientific inquiry, i'll stick to science and my own brand of mysticism.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)

Well said sir,after all they were called the dark age's for a reason.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian

Originally posted by Paladin1dcs

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
here's a good point for you all, if i see super people i will assume that they're a product of science. As for the miracles of jesus, well, did he invent a jet plane? maybe came up with innoculations against diseases? ever perform open heart surgery ? well no he didn't. If you want "miracles" then look no further than human invented science - thats where the real miracles come from.

If anything religion has diverted us away from truth, science and the pursuit of knowledge of the real world we really live in.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: added an opinion - feel free to ignore it

Actually, I'd say that the focus of your disdain is misplaced. Did Christ invent an Aircraft? No, He created the aluminum that was involved. Did He create the inoculation against disease? No, He healed them directly. Did He perform open heart surgery? No, He raised the dead, caused the lame to walk and the blind to see. Most importantly, He told us, via Proverbs, to gain knowledge and store up learning. To ask for Wisdom and seek wise counsel.

All of the great inventions of science came about because mankind used his God given talents to question and seek answers. Seeking answers to life's questions is what we're designed to do and it's what God commands us to do. After all, what do you think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is but the answer to the greatest question ever posed to man.

In your oppinion, not in mine though.

That's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. You're also responsible for defending that opinion and the basis by which you came by it as well, just not to me.

reply to post by Paladin1dcs

Why is it that all you god squad type's are so supercilious and feel the need to have the last word.I mean you tell me it's ok for me to have my own oppinion(ever so nice of you by the way)and then you can't resist throwing in the standard christian threat(or should i say control mechanism)of gods gona get you.All i can say is grow up mate.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Ah so you believe jesus's miracles were real and not metaphorical ? Making the blind see, making the dead live again, it's all just metaphor ! While on the other hand doctors bring the dead back to life on a daily basis.

As for the bible being for the idea of science and inquiry, maybe it is but it's practicioners certainly haven't been following that mentality for about 1600 years. Look at Galileo Galilei life. Look at the persecution of other beliefs by christians, look at the decline in chrisianty since the renaisance. Look at what happened to the Cathars.

Sad fact is christianity, when deprived of social and political control tends to die off, which is a good thing.

Oh and as for the greatest question ever asked - why ? then sure believe a bunch of mystics who died bereft of 400 years of scientific inquiry, i'll stick to science and my own brand of mysticism.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)

Nice rant, but sadly not based in reality or history. The events recorded in the Scriptures were witnessed by large amounts of people from all walks of life. You're attempt to discredit it's historical accuracy is without merit or support.

Also, I see that you have fallen for the idea that the practitioners of a faith are the determining factor of that faith's truthfulness, as opposed to the founding document's truthfulness. I realize by your mistaken belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Christian Church and not just a portion of it that you are not well versed in Christian Theology and Church history, so that is to be expected but will not be a refuge beyond this point.

For example, you're mistaken assertion that Christianity dies off when denied social or political control simply does not agree with the historical facts that we have. The truth is that Christianity, historically, has flourished more when persecuted than when left to it's own devices, whether that persecution came from secular, religious or political leaders doesn't seem to matter.

Finally, I'm not certain what the point of the last portion of your post was, other than a sad attempt to discredit the knowledge that our ancestors have attained by somehow labeling the Enlightenment as "new thought". I would have thought that ATS, of all places, would have been receptive to the idea that there is no new idea under the sun. Various threads here have delved into the idea that our ancestors had a greater understanding of their surroundings than what the mainstream scientific community is willing to admit, so why do you retreat to the last 400 years of our existence as somehow the pinnacle of our knowledge?

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Why is it that all you god squad type's are so supercilious and feel the need to have the last word.I mean you tell me it's ok for me to have my own oppinion(ever so nice of you by the way)and then you can't resist throwing in the standard christian threat(or should i say control mechanism)of gods gona get you.All i can say is grow up mate.

What's the problem here? I believe that you will be required to give an account for your life. I try to make that known. If you don't believe that, that's fine. Now how does that affect you?

If you're really as secure in your secularism, it shouldn't bother you now should it?

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


Again supercilious.
Why do you assume secular just cause im not brainwashed.
Also i am well aware of some people's beleif that i will be judged by their god i don't need to be preached at.If you'r god is truly a god of love then he/she would surely judge me on my actions not on weather i beleive in a book writen by man and then rewriten by another and another man.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Again supercilious.
Why do you assume secular just cause im not brainwashed.
Also i am well aware of some people's beleif that i will be judged by their god i don't need to be preached at.If you'r god is truly a god of love then he/she would surely judge me on my actions not on weather i beleive in a book writen by man and then rewriten by another and another man.

And again wrong. God is a God of Love, but He's also a God of Justice and Righteousness. If you will not accept His word as recorded, then why should He allow you into the rewards that He has set aside for those who do believe? Furthermore, you're own disdain betrays your intellectual laziness as anyone who's studied the subject of Scriptural reliability knows that the textual criticism leveled against the Bible are based in intentional deception and bias. If you knew the truth, you wouldn't hold to the mistaken idea that the Bible has been rewritten, edited, altered and changed down through the years.

Just so we're clear here, when I refer to the Scriptures, I'm referring to the original texts. While I enjoy reading the KJV, if there's a topic to be studied in depth, I dig out the original copies and go from there. And yes, we do still have access to the original copies.

Really?
You're comparing the son of the God with "superheroes" from cartoons?

Hm.

Originally posted by Paladin1dcs

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Again supercilious.
Why do you assume secular just cause im not brainwashed.
Also i am well aware of some people's beleif that i will be judged by their god i don't need to be preached at.If you'r god is truly a god of love then he/she would surely judge me on my actions not on weather i beleive in a book writen by man and then rewriten by another and another man.

And again wrong. God is a God of Love, but He's also a God of Justice and Righteousness. If you will not accept His word as recorded, then why should He allow you into the rewards that He has set aside for those who do believe? Furthermore, you're own disdain betrays your intellectual laziness as anyone who's studied the subject of Scriptural reliability knows that the textual criticism leveled against the Bible are based in intentional deception and bias. If you knew the truth, you wouldn't hold to the mistaken idea that the Bible has been rewritten, edited, altered and changed down through the years.

Just so we're clear here, when I refer to the Scriptures, I'm referring to the original texts. While I enjoy reading the KJV, if there's a topic to be studied in depth, I dig out the original copies and go from there. And yes, we do still have access to the original copies.

Soooo.....
God has a "lockbox" set aside....and....you possess and read only original Hebrew Text...and any criticizm of the Bible is only from intentional deception and bias...and...YOU KNOW THE ONLY TRUTH!!!!

WOW!

I think I just met my first crazy person. Your mind is weird.....God prolly talks directly to you also, huh?

The thing is everyone is capable of these "superpowers" already. You just have to remember how to use them.
And you'll never be able to use them if you just try to do them for fun.

Originally posted by MentalGiant

Originally posted by Paladin1dcs

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Again supercilious.
Why do you assume secular just cause im not brainwashed.
Also i am well aware of some people's beleif that i will be judged by their god i don't need to be preached at.If you'r god is truly a god of love then he/she would surely judge me on my actions not on weather i beleive in a book writen by man and then rewriten by another and another man.

And again wrong. God is a God of Love, but He's also a God of Justice and Righteousness. If you will not accept His word as recorded, then why should He allow you into the rewards that He has set aside for those who do believe? Furthermore, you're own disdain betrays your intellectual laziness as anyone who's studied the subject of Scriptural reliability knows that the textual criticism leveled against the Bible are based in intentional deception and bias. If you knew the truth, you wouldn't hold to the mistaken idea that the Bible has been rewritten, edited, altered and changed down through the years.

Just so we're clear here, when I refer to the Scriptures, I'm referring to the original texts. While I enjoy reading the KJV, if there's a topic to be studied in depth, I dig out the original copies and go from there. And yes, we do still have access to the original copies.

Soooo.....
God has a "lockbox" set aside....and....you possess and read only original Hebrew Text...and any criticizm of the Bible is only from intentional deception and bias...and...YOU KNOW THE ONLY TRUTH!!!!

WOW!

I think I just met my first crazy person. Your mind is weird.....God prolly talks directly to you also, huh?

edit on 13-9-2011 by MentalGiant because: (no reason given)

No, I simply stated that we have the original copies of the various Books which make up the Bible.

Likewise, I never said I read only the original Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Latin, I stated that I read the original texts when I want to study something in depth. I wouldn't expect a modern researcher to rely upon second-hand reports, so why would I rely upon second-hand information of this nature? I always attempt to utilize the primary sources, no matter what it is that I'm researching.

So what were you saying about being crazy?

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


Interesting perspective you have there. As for credible witnesses to Jesus's miracles you've got to be kidding right ? Seeing as the bible's been written by people who obviously believe in the myths of Christianity they may be a little bit biased as to the real truth behind it all. I don't think that people with so much invested in their beliefs are going to question some of the big issues are they ? You don't see McDonalds questioning the nutritional value of hamburgers.

As for Christians flourishing when they're being persecuted ? maybe back in the days of the Roman empire when it was a religion for the slaves but not so much since the conversion of the Roman state religion to Christianity.

The church has always been the persecutor, if you knew anything about history then you'd know about forced conversions in South America during the time of the Conquistadors. You'd also know about the Spanish inquisition, the witch hunts, etc.

Christianity has in many ways been a tool in the European habit of colonisation, after the armys have been busy wiping out the locals, then the church moves in to wipe out what’s left of their culture.

As for retreating to the claim we're in a pinnacle of technology - sure we are, can you give me an example of any technology more than 400 years old that can even slightly compare with what we've come up with since then. I can't remember any medieval hadron colliders or crusader sponsored space programs.

Ultimately I can see you're a true believer and are incapable of changing your perspective so lets leave it there - after you get your last word in of course.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

Interesting perspective you have there. As for credible witnesses to Jesus's miracles you've got to be kidding right ? Seeing as the bible's been written by people who obviously believe in the myths of Christianity they may be a little bit biased as to the real truth behind it all. I don't think that people with so much invested in their beliefs are going to question some of the big issues are they ? You don't see McDonalds questioning the nutritional value of hamburgers.

As for Christians flourishing when they're being persecuted ? maybe back in the days of the Roman empire when it was a religion for the slaves but not so much since the conversion of the Roman state religion to Christianity.

The church has always been the persecutor, if you knew anything about history then you'd know about forced conversions in South America during the time of the Conquistadors. You'd also know about the Spanish inquisition, the witch hunts, etc.

Christianity has in many ways been a tool in the European habit of colonisation, after the armys have been busy wiping out the locals, then the church moves in to wipe out what’s left of their culture.

As for retreating to the claim we're in a pinnacle of technology - sure we are, can you give me an example of any technology more than 400 years old that can even slightly compare with what we've come up with since then. I can't remember any medieval hadron colliders or crusader sponsored space programs.

Ultimately I can see you're a true believer and are incapable of changing your perspective so lets leave it there - after you get your last word in of course.

Actually, there are credible witnesses to Christ's actions in the secular record as well as the Scriptures. Naturally enough, as they take a differing opinion from where He was drawing His authority, they don't agree upon how He was able to perform them, but they do agree that something miraculous did occur.

Also, the Church has flourished not only during the days of the Roman Empire, but ever since that time. For a modern example, take a look at the Church in China, Iraq or Sudan. They're persecuted (well, Sudan was previously but they recently broke off and formed their own Christian nation), but doing well.

Furthermore, I know full well about the Roman Catholic Church's practice of forced conversions, the Inquisition and other blights on the name of Christianity. What you don't seem to understand is that these things were not done in the name of Christ, they were done in the name of the RCC. What you also don't seem to know about is how the RCC persecuted the true Christians down through the ages, deeming them heretics because they wouldn't bow down to the Pope's false claim to authority. For example, why do you think that the RCC and Eastern Orthodox Churches split in the first place? It was because the RCC demanded that the EOC submit to their authority, despite the EOC being the older branch of the faith and containing the descendants of the first congregations from Jerusalem and throughout Judea.

Finally, you claim that we're the pinnacle of technology yet you cannot even admit that we don't know all there is to know about our own past. You scoff about such things as the Baghdad battery or the Antikythera device, yet we still don't know for certain what their purpose was. We know that the ancients could and did invent such items, but to what end? I'm not so foolish to think that ancient mankind was so ignorant that he couldn't grasp the same subjects which we're dealing with today, even if we are only now coming up with the theories ourselves. After all, if we can do it now then there's nothing stopping our ancestors from doing it before if the desire was there.

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


So who's interpretation of the bible is right ? And come to think of it how about all the other religions, are they all wrong?

Nice assumption by the way about what i believe !

Of course i know about the Baghdad battery ( think it got looted) who doesn't. There's this thing about knowledge - it's accumulative. Since the invention of the printing press there's been a cost effective way of spreading information so thus the Information available greatly increased. Those people back in historical times just didn't have the education though there were geniuses who came up with amazing discoveries we still use today. I'd hoped the internet would of hastened up this spread of information but it seems most use it for debating nonsense online or shooting things rather than researching leptons or neurochemistry.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Paladin1dcs

 

So who's interpretation of the bible is right ? And come to think of it how about all the other religions, are they all wrong?

Of course i know about the Baghdad battery ( think it got looted) who doesn't. There's this thing about knowledge - it's accumulative. Since the invention of the printing press there's been a cost effective way of spreading information so thus the Information available greatly increased. Those people back in historical times just didn't have the education though there were geniuses who came up with amazing discoveries we still use today. I'd hoped the internet who'd of hastened up this spread of information but it seems most use it for debating nonsense online or shooting things rather than researching leptons or neurochemistry.

Who's interpretation is correct? Ahh, that's the $64,000 question now isn't it. I won't tell you what to believe, but I'll give you the same information that I came across that convinced me so you can determine the truth for yourself.

Look at those people who live out what is written in the Scriptures. I don't mean Priests or Pastors or Preachers, but those who live the life every day in the real world. Those who match the descriptions of the early Christians the closest are those who are following the correct interpretation.

The reason I say this is that those first Christians, before Rome got involved, were persecuted beyond belief for their faith and held onto it despite the opposition. They had to have some reason for their hope, otherwise they would have caved.

For example, when Pliny the Younger, the Roman governor of Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan to seek advice as to how to treat the Christians, he recounts that he had been killing Christian men, women, and children and he is concerned that so many have chosen death over simply bowing down to a statue of the emperor or being made to "curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." (Epistles X, 96)

There has to be a source for this kind of faith in the face of death. The same kind of faith can be found today, but not usually in the mainstream Churches where the doctrine is often at odds with Scripture. It's found in those who have investigated the claims for themselves and acted upon their findings.

Anyway, I agree that knowledge is a kind of ever expanding series of discoveries based upon each other, I just disagree that those things which we invent today are really and truly original ideas. They may be based upon a new understanding of old knowledge, or even a new take upon an old idea, but the core idea is never new. Take Icarus for an example of mankind's dream of flight. It may be a myth, but the underlying desire is still there. We're not sure how long it took man to achieve flight, although I'm fairly sure the Wright brothers were actually not the first to achieve it, but the point remains. If man can dream it, man can achieve it. I simply believe that man is commanded to try to achieve it as part of our mandate to seek out answers to life's questions.

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


Now there's the thing - modern day suicide bombers are not afraid of death either - does that make them right. Being prepared to die for your beliefs doesn't automatically make it right.

As for christianity in general i've always thought of jesus as a sort of archaic freedom fighter - rebelling against the strict dominion of the Romans - see any modern day parallels ?

At the end of the day there's some nice ideas in the bible - I mean who could be against the parable of the good samaritan or general concept like treat others as you'd treat yourself. There's knowledge to be gained in the bible but im a bit radical in that i believe there's more truth in a flower on the roadside than all the religious books put together. It's all just a mirror to behold your true self.

reply to post by Paladin1dcs


I was going to respond straight away but her indoors needed some help in the kitchen.glad i did'nt cause a couple of people who are more eloquent than myself have done so and they have pretty much covered all of my points,better than i could have.Thanks people.
All i will say is,have you ever listend to yourself?If you did you would see why i say supercilious.
Allso the tone you use is asif you are compleatly correct and every one else is wrong.You can't know your right you can beleive your right but you can't know thats why its called faith is it not.
Unless your the omniscient one.