Pope accused of crimes against humanity by victims of sex abuse

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer


The problem with this stuff is people make up so much of this crap for their own intentions its hard to know what is real or not anymore.

As I said in an earlier post, I know people who were victims of a priest. They were all altar boys. It took decades for them to get justice after what happened to them.

Literally, they were all adults well into their 40's before they were able to see this priest defrocked and sent to prison.

Yeah, it's really self serving to re-live something that awful over and over again to make sure it doesn't happen to anybody else.

Do you have any idea how long these trials go on for people who step forward?

I hardly think people plan when they are the age of an altar boy to make something up so that they can collect decades down the road.

So much for your comment. If somebody wanted to make a quick buck, they would do better to orchestrate a slip and fall accident somewhere!

reply to post by Maxmars


Good point there, that number threw me off too... But we don't have to guess, there are a ton of places you can find statistics. For example according to the Nationa Children's Alliance Group from January through June of 2011 there were around 140,000 cased served by advocacy centers. 95,120 of which reported sexual abuse. 36,628 of which had either no relation to the child or were related in another way i.e., teacher, clergy, etc. Of course these are stats for children, not adults.

In 2010 by way of a random survey of over 7,000 active Catholics in the U.S. and Canada, they found that 1.7 percent of the females and 3.3 percent of the males had been sexually abused in childhood by a priest.

In 2004, research done by John Jay College of Criminal Justice indicated that 17% of American women and 12% of American men were sexually violated when they were children by an adult. There was nothing in the study to indicate that a higher percentage of Catholic clergy abuse occurred over any other religion or by school teachers, police officers, etc.

reply to post by Skorpiogurl

In 2010 by way of a random survey of over 7,000 active Catholics in the U.S. and Canada, they found that 1.7 percent of the females and 3.3 percent of the males had been sexually abused in childhood by a priest.

Ok..so by those numbers..we can see that the cases are literally in the thousands...if you include all Catholics...and even more if you include ALL the abused that are no longer practicing Catholics...which were not included in the survey..

I also want to point out..that in the first half of the past century(1900's)...I believe that many many abuses of catholic alter boys..as well as young girls in parishioners families.. happened even more than it does now. No one dared speak out against clergy back in those days.

My point was this..and I still stand by it..for every false claim made about priest abuse..there are literally thousands..that never saw litigation...and I'm going back many years in the history of the catholic church.

reply to post by gabby2011

Ok..so by those numbers..we can see that the cases are literally in the thousands...if you include all Catholics...and even more if you include ALL the abused that are no longer practicing Catholics...which were not included in the survey..

Yes, that particular information was a Catholic specific survey. However, be careful... the other reports and numbers mention that clergy abuse is basically on the bottom of the list as far as the number of reported cases and survivors. Much higher statistics can be found in cases involving teachers, neighbors, family members, non-family members (strangers), police officers, parents... which is totally disgusting, talk about double the betrayal... and even within various child protective service agencies. We have all heard horror stories about day care centers. Anyway, I know this thread is about the pope but we just can't limit this crime to the Catholic Church. Bottom line is one form of abuse isn't any better or worse than another and no one individual or involved party should be protected from the consequences that come with committing the crime. So maybe it starts with the church and then others follow, but I don't think so...

reply to post by Skorpiogurl

Anyway, I know this thread is about the pope but we just can't limit this crime to the Catholic Church.

Totally agree with you on that statement...and the other points you mention in your post.

The only reason I posted what I did was because I get tired of hearing about people complain about these false claims..for money..

What about all the legit cases that never filed claims .

This is a problem that extends far beyond the catholic church....there is no doubt.. but that fact doesn't let the catholic church..and how the pope has dealt with it.. off the hook for accepting responsibility for what they ALLOWED to happen..knowing full well what was going on.

reply to post by Maxmars

This kind of fanning of the flames leads me to believe it's more about hating the church itself than the evil some of it's clergy have done. That leads to the thinking about 'hurt them where it hurts most - their pockets".... guess what... it's not the offenders' pockets... its the church's pockets... it's not their money.... it's the church's money.. at some point you have to wonder about why people are so keen to punish the entire congregation of the religion... and then I remember that most of us are a product of group-think.

Just out of curiosity, are you going to look next into the public school systems, the "local" community activities, and all the other paces (like a person's home) where these horrors occur? Or is it only the Catholic community that deserves to be punished for these crimes?

Couldn't be better summed up!

Too much of what goes on is just anti-religious, rather than anti-abuse.

An excuse for extremism, "covered with a veil of righteousness."

Isn't that what many of the loudest screamers are saying about the Church?
If we truly want to punisgh the predators, we should start right in our own schools, playgrounds and playing fields.

I don't see any of that outside of anti-priest hysteria.

jw

reply to post by jdub297

Isn't that what many of the loudest screamers are saying about the Church? If we truly want to punisgh the predators, we should start right in our own schools, playgrounds and playing fields. I don't see any of that outside of anti-priest hysteria.

Well..maybe your eyes don't want to see..and I feel sad that you are ignoring the very real problems that the catholic church has to deal with.

When the school divisions get brought to court,and sued..everyone complains about the taxpayers being the ones who bare the brunt..the same as when law enforcement is sued....and that is money we are forced to pay. Church money is given willingly..and people have a choice in whether they want to go to church..or even donate.

This problem is without a doubt in all walks of life.... but this thread topic is specifically about the problems within the catholic church... what do you expect..?

This is the crime that perpetuates this cycle..NOT DEALING with the issue.. in a way that prevents it from happening to someone else.

If you just see this as "priest bashing" ..then you really need to look deeper at the real issues, behind why the pope is being charged...and you need to understand what the topic of the thread is about.

G'Day Wise Ones,

Well, in my opinion the Catholic Church / Vatican have committed crimes against humanity going back hundreds of years and should be found guilty, then disbanded.
They committed genocide on a mass scale during the Inquisition and never been brought to justice for that, paedophilia and rape are only a small part of this horrific story.
Saint Patrick was one arse wipe that got away with genocide in Ireland, the saying goes he drove all the snakes out or Ireland but that was just a metaphor for, he with the roman army massacred most of the Celtic people of Ireland, men women and little children that didn’t convert to Christianity.
He helped wiped out all the druids, the very people that gave the land to Catholic’s to build their first church this was before Saint Peter built the church in Rome.
I bet you won’t celebrate Saint Patrick ’s Day the same way after reading this, bring them to justice I say!!!!


Blesed Be....

Originally posted by Kernoonos
G'Day Wise Ones,

Well, in my opinion the Catholic Church / Vatican have committed crimes against humanity going back hundreds of years and should be found guilty, then disbanded.
They committed genocide on a mass scale during the Inquisition and never been brought to justice for that, paedophilia and rape are only a small part of this horrific story.
Saint Patrick was one arse wipe that got away with genocide in Ireland, the saying goes he drove all the snakes out or Ireland but that was just a metaphor for, he with the roman army massacred most of the Celtic people of Ireland, men women and little children that didn’t convert to Christianity.
He helped wiped out all the druids, the very people that gave the land to Catholic’s to build their first church this was before Saint Peter built the church in Rome.
I bet you won’t celebrate Saint Patrick ’s Day the same way after reading this, bring them to justice I say!!!!

Blesed Be....

There is no doubt these things happened. But we have reached a point, that the use of the church as an excuse for the brutality which all people inflict on one another is invalid. I think the church should be ashamed to have been part of it, it should have struggled to reject it, and it certainly should have reacted to it within itself. But like many realities, people are to blame, not constructs of society. Those were just excuses.

In this case, no priest that I ever heard of conveyed the idea that molesting or sexually abusing someone "is OK because I am a Catholic priest." So while true, your observations is not part of this discussion, although I welcome the perspective.

In the end, shame should have driven the church to correct this matter with finality. But like many institutions, all they could muster was pride.... and here we are.

In that the Pope is their figurehead and commander of doctrine, he needs to atone for these sins. But the criminals are the ones who should be on trial, not any individual Pope. or religious leader.. unless of course they themselves were similarly guilty.

reply to post by Maxmars

In that the Pope is their figurehead and commander of doctrine, he needs to atone for these sins. But the criminals are the ones who should be on trial, not any individual Pope. or religious leader.. unless of course they themselves were similarly guilty.

You make some valid points in your post.. but concerning the above quote... is he is guilty..if he knowingly knew of this abuse..swept it under the rug..knew full well that these pedophiles we being moved to a new location..where they could abuse their trust again.

If you knew that children were being abused...because many cases were presented to you..to look into..and you did little about it.and did your best to cover it up.....would that not make you guilty of aiding crime?

While he may not be guilty of the crime....he was the one in charge of looking after them...and he did nothing but cover it up.

reply to post by JohnySeagull


It will take a generation to get the old priests gone. The Church needs to fire the ones who are pedophiles. Pedophiles are in walks of life. Teachers, politicians, preachers, cops and who ever you want to throw a group into this ring... Married priest would fall into the same groups of people. That does not mean all priests are sex offenders.

If the buck stops at the top, then a whole lot of people should be in jail. Insert you favorite, or group you hate the most as the top.

Profiles of a Pedophile.

childprotection.lifetips.com...

Pedophilia

www.minddisorders.com...

Even south park did a episode on this.
every one knows catholic priests are Pedophilias.
a lot about this cam out in Ireland.
and that took a long time. there are films about it.
The pope has his own little country in side Italy?
the pop has an army of hired mercenaries Yes!
every catholic in Italy give a Lot of money from there wages.
the chaotic church is the richest country in the world.
the people in Italy keep very quiet about there kids being rape’t.
when the catholic church gets convicted of Pedophilias.
the Italian people will start to tell the true story.
How much would you wont in cash to let
a catholic Priest bugger your little boy?
How devoted to God and the church?
enough to turn a blind eye when little bobby
come home from church with blood in hit pants crying.

reply to post by buddha


I wouldn't go as far as saying they are ALL pedophiles....but way too many of them are..as they are supposed to be representatives of Christs teachings..

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by buddha

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying they are ALL pedophiles....but way too many of them are..as they are supposed to be representatives of Christs teachings..

Therein lies the dilemma. Which good men shall we brand as a child molester or deviant because of this? Which of the innocent servants of the church do we 'sacrifice' for our outrage? ...and to what avail?

As a matter of principle I reject such generalizations as "they are all pedophiles"; or even that any one person is responsible for the crimes of brutality and the abuse of trust which seems an infections that extends far beyond one institution.

This is an institution in decay. But not all institutions have to die; since they are our constructs, they can be reformed..... cynics of course, will not be dissuaded by the likes of those who dare envision a rebirth of a spirit.... I find that oddly synchronous.... (heh, it's like a pun or something!)

reply to post by Maxmars

As a matter of principle I reject such generalizations as "they are all pedophiles"; or even that any one person is responsible for the crimes of brutality and the abuse of trust which seems an infections that extends far beyond one institution.

Indeed they are not ALL pedophiles..and child molesters... and some have even spoken against the crimes of their fellow priests..in an attempt to stop the crimes against children. The problem is when the person in charge of looking into these vile crimes..does nothing about it.. and refuses to take action to "clean up" the priesthood.

I believe that is why Pope Benedict is under the microscope..because of his actions in not dealing with this problem...he was in charge of these cases for many years...

and yes..these problems extend far beyond the catholic church..and if anyone in school administration or in law enforcement..in charge of cases such as these..did little to prevent them from being resolved , and even went so far as to conceal evidence ....I would consider them guilty as well.

Wait a sec, doesn't a catholic have a word? Yes they SHOULD be trialed like an average pedo for 40+ years, will it happen? now. The banker guy who stole 2 billion got 3 years!

Do all priest and popes rape people? No. This means do not let a few bad apples ruin the bunch. Religion organization has its problems, but utlmately it makes people feel good. Blame the people, not the theology

Meanwhile, Islamist are blowing people up, and Jews are taking over the world.

Finally they take the fight to the Pope!

As one of the whores of Babylon, she won't be able to buy her way out of what's to come. Even her own regard Ratzinger as the last Pope. The next administration will weld her doors shut forever.