Enough with the dishonest behaviour Truthers - I'm calling you out.

If you OS supporters actually understood building design, and physics, you would realise that there is plenty of visual evidence that can only be explained by controlled demolition.

For example...





Outer walls do not fall inwards from natural collapses, path of most resistance. Controlled implosion demolition is designed to cause the outer walls to fall inwards, and land on top of the rest of the collapsed building, it is the definition of 'in its own footprint'.

So it looks like a controlled demolition, it does not look like a natural collapse. There is such a huge difference in the way they look it can only be one or the other. If you do not understand how buildings collapse then you are now probably thinking, 'how do they look any different, they all fall down?' Or something similar...

Now if you can show me ONE natural collapse that looks anything like WTC 7 post collapse, I'll support your OS. But you must pay attention to the details, all the outer walls must be folded in on top of the rest of the collapsed building.

reply to post by ANOK


Eeeeeeeeh?? I think you must read again my post.

I'm all in for the conspiracy and completely reject the OS.

It was just being sarcastic with Steveknows..

Peace out.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


You should probably post some links and a full on thread that has links and pretty pictures and flashy words so that you can have some backing to your statement. Oh wait, you have a video. Theres a start.
Now, how about you stop trying to half ass threads and get some good info to back your opinion. Your as bad as your claiming us "truthers" to be.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing, but a lot of ignorance is just as bad." ~Bob Edwards

reply to post by ANOK



I took a close look at your photo and some of your arrows cannot be right. The two arrows circled do not have enough visual information to make an assessment, so you are just guessing here.

The other three with the orange arrows cannot be right because they are not inline with the vertical axis of the building, (your arrows are pointed across the width of the building not towards the top or bottom)

I have placed the orange arrows in line with the vertical axis please pick out which end you think is the top and adjust your photo accordingly.



I am still interested in which pile you think is the north south east and west wall.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Are you serious? You don't question a single aspect of that entire day? So you believe all the official "facts" of what happened?
Ok then. I guess your entitled to that limited narrow point of view (Or lack of).

Originally posted by waypastvne

The arrows are irrelevant, they were for an old post where I was trying to show the direction of the walls falling. The vertical axis has nothing to do with it. The walls did not fall vertically through the whole collapse, they folded inwards, as evidenced by the vid you all claim was the building leaning as it collapsed. The walls are visible on top of the rest of the collapsed building, that is all that matters.

I am still interested in which pile you think is the north south east and west wall.

WHY??

I already went over this with you, what difference does it make which is which? Figure it out yourself then come tell me what difference it makes.

The outer walls should not be on top of the rest of the collapsed building from a natural collapse, period.
The only way that can happen is implosion style demolition. In a natural collapse the walls would be pushed out by the buildings interior, and the rubble would fall on top of the walls outside of the footprint. The only way to get the walls to fall inwards, after the buildings interior has dropped, is by timed controlled explosives.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Time and time again I see the same BS from the Truther movement and time and time again, when they're presented irrefutable facts they stop posting on threads and disappear.

So, enough of that.

I'm calling you out.

Here's some BS you can no longer claim to be true:


!!!! condensed for repost !!

edit on 12-9-2011 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-9-2011 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

Nothing you say is going to get these people to believe the truth. They need to believe that there is more to it than a terrorists attack. I don't know why but just looking at all the post on any thread on this site some people need more than there is. Perhaps it makes up for something lacking in their life.

Okay, I just want to make one more post in this useless thread. The OP, is just adding to the disinformation, and misdirection. " Truthers" Believe the towers were brought down by someone inside the country ? Right ? Government, maybe even american architects hell why not even a disgruntled ex employee from the trade centers ? The likeliness, one plane would be hijacked, flown that well, that close to the updrafts in a major metropolitan city and hit their target is ridiculous let alone the other planes that were taken and flown with similar ease right into their target on the first freaking try. Okay, now aside from that. The ONLY evidence the OP gave, was in fact the same type of evidence he complained " Truthers " use. A random Youtube Clip, of a french style of controlled Demolition, that uses no explosives. The twin towers Absolutely fell in Controlled Demolition fashion. Whether or not, they were brought down with explosives makes no matter in the case. Controlled Demo, is controlled Demo. You've simply added a new angel if someone who has the man power and money would like to launch a real investigation into the events that took place. Keep in mind we are all seem to have the same problem. The original investigation, has way to many #ing holes and inconsistencies. One or many of the people involved are trying to hide something. Maybe it's the fact they are worried someone won't accept what they've come up with or maybe it's as extreme as they are hiding something that could prove it wasn't terrorism. Maybe, it's evidence that does prove terrorism. Launch the investigation and come up with real solid proof not you tube bull# that proves your point if you have a problem, because EVERY youtube video for the act of terrorism or a fall flag attack has holes and obviously is not enough proof. F*** I'm so sick of it, if it's not working find better proof. How ever the fact this is so warped and such a huge act of terrorism thousands of miles from from the hick idiots who ride camels with surplus cold war weapons and devices I could make at home depot as the masterminds behind this just doesn't sound right. Where on earth would they learn to fly the commercial jet that crashed ? There aren't many places where you can learn to handle a plane like that in the area they were flown. Simulators don't even come close to the real deal in most places in the world, let alone how many skilled pilots with many hours in the air have made simple mistakes that have brought a plane down from 10s of thousands of feet with many minutes to correct the error, let alone a terrorist who came to this country and pretty much jumped in the seat for the first time and pulled this off, but not once, and with different pilots ? Can you imagine getting behind the controls of a plane that big going that fast and doing that ? Could you imagine doing that and knowing you were going to die? The Adrenaline rush, the fear that at any moment a passenger could charge the cockpit and over throw you? If you were on a plane with terrorists would you not try to kill them if you knew you were all going to die anyways? I would. I'd be scared but I would. Especially if I thought they were going to do anything like what they did. As that terrorist even if you thought you were going to get 72 virgins or be next to god or what ever could you fly even close to the way they did ? Doesn't take much to screw up. Think of the people who can't pull of lesser feats for large sums of money on game shows.

I can't find my youtube video but it doesn't matter no one accepts them anyways. If someone else could help it was explaining the differences between simulations and real life flight. The other is a video explaining how difficult it really is to fly a commercial jet.

Hey Captain, i`m calling you out.........

Captain (some unknown random dude on the internet with ???? structural engineering qualifications) states that jets were the cause of the twin tower collapses.

Let`s hear what someone with the correct qualifications and part of the WTC design and project management team has to say......

media.abovetopsecret.com...

So here we have it boys and girls..... In the red corner - captaindoihavetheneccessarycredentials to debate stuff regarding structural integrity? and in the blue corner - I most certainly do have the credentials.

Who ya gonna believe?.

Don`t forget to tune into next weeks fiction versus factual debate when the captain takes on the seismic data events, and explains why the two recorded Richter scale readings were logged 14 and 17 seconds prior to both impacts, and how buildings designed to absorb energy, somehow managed to channel this energy from around 1000 feet above ground level to the earth, and how one of these recordings registered 2.1 which is the equivalent of 80,000 lbs of sodium nitrate exploding, he will also explain with the aid of NIST physics how a building constructed not to absorb energy managed to absorb it all from an impact by an identical plane just a few feet above ground level.........

The floor is yours captain, i`m calling you out.

reply to post by plube

lmao....but we should ignore things cause you did afterall see things with your own eyes...along with all the other truthers who have the courage to stand up and fight for whats right.....but sometimes it seems not worth it as we are fighting a tough cause only to get called things by the same people we fight for....but such is life....you choose to live in the shade of a mushroom...and i choose to head for the light.

but that is a choice i freely make without trying to call you names for what you believe

I was giving it the contemp it deserved. If I lived like a mushroom as you say I do, even a tool such as yourself couldn't dig me out. See I don't think it's the truth you want. I think it's the sucking of energy and lowering of the IQ you might be after. And why do you feel the need to project your own short comings on to the Jews? There was another person who did that once and millions died or do you think that didn't happen as well?

Originally posted by MentalGiant
Thank you for proving in your own post a demolition technique I have never seen before, now I believe more than ever, the buildings were demoed. I have a stronger argument, and more proof now, because of you. Thanks!!!!

I also want to point out many inconsistencies in your argument, but it is so silly, i am not going to waste my time. Your post is redundant, and your eyes and ears are closed.

Some great advise I was given once....."Never argue with an insane person...because from a distance, noone can tell who is crazy".....So, have a good day, redundant, eyes closed, crazy person.... Ive got productive thibgs to do, I cannot waste my day with someone who has spent 10 years ignoring the "elephant in the room".

It would be so much more valuable to your argument if you didn't consider pulling your facts together a waste of your time. But since you do I can only assume that the facts don't add up to anything of value.
As for the advice you've recieved thats fine but just because someone has a different opinion from yours does not make them insane. Getting personal only makes you look childish and seems to be a ploy to change the direction of the conversation away from the main point. If you can't fight your opponents views with facts then belittle them and make them seem silly. I've seen this used this way a dozen times on this site.

reply to post by ANOK


So are you still saying that all four walls are on top of the pile ?

The core collapsed first, do you think the core should be on top of the pile ?

Exactly what do you think should be on top of the pile for a fire induced collapse ?

Originally posted by WarminIndy
That was the very first lie. The first one proclaimed loudly by Jordanian and Syrian news papers. That is the one people here first believed. Since then, every theory has been based on that premise, and that premise alone.

So you're saying that every theory about 9/11 that oppose OS is based on premises that jews are to blame.
Oh boy, im speechless, if you gonna also say that, this is the reason why you think there was no conspiracy, im gonna give you a star. Really.

You can say that you have not, but let me ask you this, if you believe there were no planes, then what about the theory your own "experts" have come up with about Israelis flying the planes? Well if there were no planes, then no Israelis flew them. But have your "experts" apologized for that misleading? No.

What... what are you talking about, no planes, where did I say that? Because some people believe that, im suppose be one of them? There are much more plausible explanations, why are you clinging to some fringe theories, and based on them smear entire movement,

But since witnesses to the planes, the witnesses on the planes and the witnesses in the buildings themselves are disregarded in favor of "experts" who were not there, it leads to only one conclusion...people believed the original lie and built on it. If I made you uncomfortable, then maybe it is because there is something to what I am saying.

Wow, you're smart. Except I have no idea what you're talking about, nor what you're trying to prove. Some people believe moon is made of cheese, perhaps they also have some experts to confirm that, what should I care.
If you looking at explanations of conspiracy around 9/11 through this jew and hologram theories, well... Blindness would be understatement, that's beyond it.

So disprove my statement of anti-Semitism at work. By saying you are not does not prove anything,

Again, you're telling me, that all theories and doubts that people present about this subject are based on anti-semitism. You're ridicuolus. I'm sorry to say that, but I just can't believe that you actually may believe it.

The "Truthers" have not shown one C.I.A. agent responsible, you have not shown one F.B.I. agent responsible

You're WRONG. Go to secrecykills.com, read, watch interview, make an opinion.

while disregarding the fact that the first person to tell you to accuse was an Anti-Semite on Jordanian television.

Why you're so obsessed to think that everything spins around hate for jews? Are you a jew? Not my business really, but at least it would explain a bit.

Originally posted by bigwig22

Originally posted by steveknows
reply to post by plube

 

I do have proof the planes brought the towers down. My own eyes. Also my own eyes tells me that the floors where the planes hit were burning for some time before the towers came down so again my common sense tells me that what you couldn't see from the outside was thie inside of the towers burning down through the floors.

And you don't own ATS we can say what we like and we're not being any more derogative than the truthers. Perhaps what might be offensive is the pure logic.

Hey man, did you see the movie transformers 3 with your own eyes?

I guess yes. Me too!

It must be all true!

Pure logic wont hurt you if you use it sometimes.

Peace out.

Yes I did see the movie actually but I didn't believe what I was seeing because like most people I can tell fact from fantasy which goes a long way to explaining why I don't believe anyone other than terrorist had anything to do with 9/11.

What a lame analogy. Must be a habbit for you to not put much thought into something eh?

reply to post by steveknows


Once again your ignorance has come to the forefront....just as i thought might be the possibilities....Did i say jews....Nope...Nada...Not once....and you have the audacity to go and call people names again....JEWs are a race of people...Of which many are my firends.

Zionists are a political movement.....the founder being one Theodore Herzl 1860-1904

i can see you are using your eyes here yet again....but for one who uses their eyes so much why is it you do not see.....I have been polite and show you possibilities and the only replies that come back are jibes and pokes which i am not sure why.

you chose not to as i see to look into what was said at all but it would seem you felt it necessary to come back with that,,,,so let me ask you why would you poke at Muslims for an attack that no one is absolutely sure they committed...like also was pointed out within minutes Of the attacks Ehud Barak was willing to point a finger in a certain direction.

Then you have the audacity to come back and think i am a Jew hater....coming from someone whom it would seem is a truther hater.....yet why should it matter to you....it was not your country that was attacked and your willing to let the 3000+ innocent to rest in peace on a bed of lies...and your willing to let the 100,000+ people whom have died in false wars go to their graves on a bed of lies....And you have the nerve to compare me to Hitler.......wow.

I can see you would rather choose to just see with your eyes and not use your other god given senses to figure out what happened on the day of 911.....

well i guess your in the right thread then....Because it would seem that no matter what gets presented you will discount as a truther lie even if the truth is in it....i guess the picture of Jeb Bush with the discover air people is ummmm...a lie...they must have been photoshoped in.

I guess Ehud Barak must have just guessed it was Al Qaeda so quickly after the attacks.....

I guess with John O'neil the fbi Agent closing in on the Al Qaeda deception was conveinently hired the day before 911 to the WTC just happened to die and beplaced there on the crime scene after his first day of work and then found intact 11 days laters on site...

but nope ...no decent reply to these questions....all makes perfect sense to you....

but as you did say i could not dig you out....

i know you are new to the site...and you will understand that these are personal attacks by you...and when someone resorts to personal attacks the only IQ they lower is their own...

I thank you for your negative responses and your lack of intellectual comebacks...i hope your journey in life takes you to where you want to go.

Originally posted by ANOK

The outer walls should not be on top of the rest of the collapsed building from a natural collapse, period.
The only way that can happen is implosion style demolition. In a natural collapse the walls would be pushed out by the buildings interior, and the rubble would fall on top of the walls outside of the footprint. The only way to get the walls to fall inwards, after the buildings interior has dropped, is by timed controlled explosives.

What if the interior collapsed from the fires alone?

And when the interior collapsed, it caused the penthouse to fall in.

And then when the interior all fell in, the exterior came down and the sides fell in.

But how do YOU know how the building is suppose to behave in a fire collapse and a controlled demolition?

Also, you just said, "timed controlled explosives." Tell me ANOK, when and where did this happen? After all, in a controlled demolition the explosives have to explode first, and then the building starts to collapse. But why is it that not a soul has mentioned hearing a whole series of these "timed controlled explosives"? You know, the ol' BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, and then crash!!!!!!!!!! Why does every firefighter, police, paramedic, people standing around, all say in regards to WTC7, they are just standing around, and all of a sudden, "There it goes!!" without any real warning? No one mentions hearing series of blasts rocking the building prior to collapse. The only mention of the sound during collapse is by that one shyster NYPD Craig Bartmer. But what got his attention to look up at WTC7 while he was standing RIGHT FREAKIN NEXT TO IT?

i didn't hear any creaking or i didn't hear any indication that it was going to come down, and all of a sudden the radios exploded and everybody started screaming, "Get away. Get away. Get away from it." and I was like a dear in the headlights. And I look up. It was that moment, you know, "Get away", and I looked up... and... it was nothing I would ever imagine seeing in my life. And all the things started peeling in on itself and... I mean, there was an umbrella of crap seven feet over my head that I just stared at. Somebody grabbed my shoulder and I started running and the [explitive]'s hitting the ground behind me and the whole time your hearing "thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom."

Yeah that sure does sound like he heard a series of blasts to get his attention to WTC7. Oh no, wait a sec. What exploded? The radios! What got his attention to look up? People telling him to look up and run. How the hell do you miss the series of blasts prior to collapse? What is up with Truthers and having buildings collapse before the demolition charges go off?

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by jamieastronaut
I know it's quite unbelievable for this guy to just blatantly admit that they "pulled" the building.

Except he said they pulled the fire crews out, NOT pulled the building.... since when has the FB been in the building demolishing business?

www.debunking911.com...

Scroll down the page, it clearly shows the cables attached to the building. They pulled it.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
No one owes you anything and I personally don't give a damn what you think and I am making sure this isn't a one liner so Bill does penalize me and that's all I have to say to you.

reply to post by karen61057


Yep, they pulled down WTC6 and I think 5. With cables. I didnt see cables on WTC7 though. Strange...................

reply to post by spw184


Though, to be fair, a good flying reptillian bigfoot thread every once in awhile IS good for a laugh.
That being said,



I sympathize with the OP in regards to the occasional completely outlandish Truther post and how frustrating that can be come. I feel like a good step forward for the Truther movement would be to give serious scientific analysis to ALL possibilities and they'll likely come to a conclusion that falls somewhere in the middle ground of conspiracy and the original story. The whole thing seems to have fallen apart at some point in the last few years, it's hard to keep serious credibility when the vocal majority is flinging wild theories and acting like crazy people.

That's how the UFO community keeps from gaining serious credibility. It's unfortunate because a lot of the ideas and theories are interesting and deserve attention.

Originally posted by stonespiral
reply to post by spw184

 

Though, to be fair, a good flying reptillian bigfoot thread every once in awhile IS good for a laugh.
That being said,



I sympathize with the OP in regards to the occasional completely outlandish Truther post and how frustrating that can be come. I feel like a good step forward for the Truther movement would be to give serious scientific analysis to ALL possibilities and they'll likely come to a conclusion that falls somewhere in the middle ground of conspiracy and the original story. The whole thing seems to have fallen apart at some point in the last few years, it's hard to keep serious credibility when the vocal majority is flinging wild theories and acting like crazy people.

That's how the UFO community keeps from gaining serious credibility. It's unfortunate because a lot of the ideas and theories are interesting and deserve attention.

You hit the nail on the head. A proper constructive debate with scientific support would be good. If everyone appraoched it that way I think most people would be willing to listen.